Boeroer

A Shifter heals after Spiritshift and you will still be able to use Lay on Hands and other Paladin stuff. So that can work (and you wouldn't have to settle down on one particular form). Besides that I would consider Lifegiver. If you want to tank while shifted your vastly superior healing spells like Moonlight etc. will help immensely. After shifting your healing will drop though. You could compensate by using the Spine of Thicket Green after shifting - or just live with the malus until encounter's over. You can use Druid healing before/while shifted and use Paladin's Lay on Hands afterwards (since it doesn't suffer from the Power Level drain. In non-shifted form I would use the thickest armor if your goal is tanking. Since you might want to pick Two Weapon Style for your Spiritshift attacks you could take a bashing shield setup when not shifted: it profits from both Weapon & Shield as well as Two Weapon Style. Look a Tuotilo's Palm or Magran's Blessing for example. Analternative could be to use dual hatchets since they have some defensive capabilities. There's a hatchet called Vion-Ceth which does +30% dmg against all enemies with a plant effect. Druids can cast plenty of plant spells on enemies which can be used to unlock that bonus 100% of times. For example. Another good weapon could be the Lance of the Midwood Stag which can give you +2 to all Power Levels as soon as you have a plant effect (e.g. Woodskin). As tanker you want high RES. Good INT and solid MIG would be good for the healing. DEX is good for faster casting, esp. in thick armor.

Stuff that applies on all sorts of hits (not only weapon hits) - like Spirit Frenzy's Stagger affliction for example - do work with Carnage. But Body Blows and the other we won modals might be effect that are bound to weapon attacks specifically - and Carnage is not considered a weapon attack (and not melee either iirc). Blood Storm's DoT would also work with Carnage if it only could crit. It also doesn't generate focus. Still a morning star is great to have (e.g. in a backup weapon slot while you are using club+shield mainly) if you want to cast anything against fortitude like Disintegration and such. For such purposes you don't need Two Handed Style or any other investment in two handers. It's mostly about the modal.

Saru Sichr, too? Its poison also stacks like Bleeding Cuts. Would make it a good alternative to the Willbreaker for me.

Maybe you can dual-wield with the Whale of a Wand and cause some Charms while casting? Did not test this so don't be mad at me if it doesn't work.

Explains why my SC Furyshaper with Barbaric Retaliation, Blood Ward and Bleeding Cuts becomes more an more crazy the longer the fight lasts. Since Blood Ward drains even from DoT ticks and the Bleeding Cuts' ticks stack in such a way.

If you drop its RES then its Will and Deflection would automatically drop as well. You would have to raise them back manually again (if you want to keep them at the same level as before). I don't like Megabosses simply because of the bloated HP. If you have a build that can hit them reliably and at the same time survive most attacks then a Megaboss could go down quickly for all I care. There is a game called Titan Souls - it only has boss battles and you only have one arrow for each fight. So it's more like puzzles. You have to figure out how to beat a certain boss. If you do it's one hit and it will die. The game's great and the battles are designed really well. I wish Deadfire's Megabosses would be more like that. Most of them already have a puzzle-like approach (except Dorudugan I guess - if you dismiss his fire-healing). Now I don't want them to drop after one hit obviously - but once you figure out how to beat them it's just a grind that heavily favors replenishable resources. That's no fun at all, at least for me. 16K+ health... I mean wtf?

Legendary adds 15% additive dmg which is like nothing in the late game (e.g. 2.4 points per attack roll with a sword). The added ACC is nice but doesn't really matter as well as long as your are with a party. In none of my party playthroughs I even bothered to enchant any weapon (that didn't come with legendary in the first place) higher than superb. Great Swords are fine in Deadfire. Good base dmg, dual dmg, very good uniques, two summonable ones, reasonable PEN for a dual dmg weapon. The only thing that's not very good is the modal. Because no situation calls for a bit more additive dmg (6.3 per attack roll) while lowering ACC significantly. While I think that balance is important, even in single player games, I agree that when a nerf hits your char while you are doing a playthrough it can be very frustrating. That's why I once suggested that nerfs/buffs should be separate patches that only apply to newly started playthroughs. But using nerfs as explanation for sales drops... how many players actually used some "creative" powergamer's build which then got nerfed? Not that many I would suspect.

Nay, I wouldn't try Offensive Parry with a Barb either. Something with high defenses+Cipher can be cool with Offensive Party because it generates focus as soon as enemies miss in melee, but once a Barb is involved you can't get to sufficient deflection anymore (unless you ditch Frenzy maybe).

Fair point.

Barbarian can tank well enough if you don't focus on stellar deflection (but not dropping it either) but try to stack AC. Underpenetration, combined with even more reduced dmg received (Cadhu Scalth for example) and the enormous health pool of a Barb can make you sturdy as hell. Just don't pick Berserker. I played a dumped-deflection but stacked AR Furyshaper with focus on Blood Ward and Barbaric Retaliation with Battle Axes (Bleeding Cuts) as offtank (not main tank at all) and at some point I could just jump into everything (at higher levels though) because the life draining is so strong. Thick skinned and the other defensive stuff is mandatory. So is Savage Defiance of course. Leap does daze enemies which can be very helpful. Regeneration items might help as well. The Dazing Shout is especially great for a tanking Barb. But it's for SC Barb's only. Nevertheless it's absolutely great because it not only causes -4 PEN on enemies but also deals a great deal of damage in a huge AoE. It turns a slow hitting guy into a great AoE CC/damage dealer as soon as Blood Thirst and Blood Surge trigger - and as a Furyshaper with Blood Ward it also heals you a lot (especially if you took Blood Storm which will put a DoT on all crits from Dazing Shout - and Blood Ward even drains life from DoT ticks. But Spirit Tornado is also good). I think this could work well with a more definitive weapon setup and high RES as well. But I didn't play that yet. Multiclass Barb's can't have Dazing Shout, but they can still profit from the +3 engagement of Barbaric Shout. If you want to tank with a Witch you'd not only need to stack up some defenses and AR but also reduce enemies ACC - or even better: disable them completely. Again I would suggest a Furyshaper because the Fear Ward is just incredible if you have some means to lower Will defenses (Cipher has and Barbaric Shout is also shaking enemies). A Furyshaper/Beguiler can shout and bind several foes, then summon the Ward and then spam several CC spells that will control the enemies (and fill up focus). Furyshapers have bad Will but Ciphers have very high Will and can pick a unique Will boost passive. Since interrupts will mess up your casting I would use Rekvu's Fractured Casque with an injury like Acute Rash or Serious Burn (let your party caster knock you out with some acid or fire spell out of combat). Or pile up some Concentration instead. Cipher spells that help controlling the enemies and preventing them from attacking/hitting you and your friends are stuff like Eyestrike, Secret Horrors and such. Ringleader is great leader on. Borrowed Instincts and Body Attunement are no-brainers. Here the "tanking" part doesn't come from the highest defenses but more from controlling and disabling the enemies. If you shower them with Secret Horrors, Phantom Foes, Mental Bindings and such while the Fear Ward constantly hammers against their Will defenses you can "tank" (in the sense of preventing enemies to attack your party) very well if you combine that with a good deal of sturdyness. If you use something like Cadhu Scalth (it's just the best tanking shield imo) you should focus on PER to make up for the -8 ACC. MIG isn't that important. DEX and RES are though. So yeah - Furyshaper/Beguiler would be my pick. With Cadu Scalth and Kapana Taga I guess (lower Will by 25 with the modal so the Ward can kick in). Thick armor. Instead of Rekvu's Fractured Casque (still my favorite) I can imagine the White Witch Mask being useful. Reckless Brigandine would complete a Witch in Huana-Mataru style. But other items would work, too. I didn't try it myself and I can imagine it wouldn't work as a tank in the early levels, but after some time it should hold up well in most fights as well as wrecking enemies' tactics. Maybe bring a dedicated tank in the first few levels and then change or retrain. If you have a Priest in the party the FuryShaper will laugh his ass off: you can withdraw the wards but they will keep working, making them invincible. So please pick Withdraw.

My personal favorite would be Ixamitl and then the Living Lands. I really liked the parts of GoT that handled the eastern parts of the world (Dothraki stuff especially) and I somehow get those vibes from Ixamitl. Don't think it's grogs' favorite setting though...?

Care to elaborate (like what's SEC, what exactly happened, when and why)?

I don't think so. It's possible but not very likely imo. If PoE disappointed so many players in whatever way (that it explains the drastic drop in sales from over 1 million to 200K at release) there would have been some indication. But there was no substantial one. Complaints about bugs etc. are common and in case of PoE not extraordinary. I read nearly nothing about complicated or weird mechanics. The only thing that sometimes came up was about the non-traditional functions of attributes (MIG for spell dmg and INT for Carnage radius and so on). Besides that Obsidian addressed all points of criticism which came up more frequently (visually messy combat, loading times and so on) in Deadfire. They even did a survey and tried to learn from it. And they communicated that during the fig campaign, so players of PoE who had some pet peeves could have known that those got fixed (but maybe some already left and never looked back). One thing that was getting some criticism when Deadfire was announced was the party reduction to 5 members. Not really related to mechanics but something that could have repelled some players (not a ton but still). Sidekicks also got some flame. But was that enough? Maybe it's just a hodgepodge of several smaller reasons that lead to the poor sales numbers at release - and there isn't THE major reason. Would explain why even Obsidian is absolutely clueless.

Then PoE would also fall under the same category as Deadfire. Its rules are less systemic and thus even more convoluted. Yet it sold quite well.

Cool

Hehe - I indeed do not like gatekeeping. But at the same time I don't really care whether others agree with my gaming preferences or not. I wouldn't call myself a lover of Skyrim - but I had fun with it. I played it on a PS2 on a big screen though and not on PC. Maybe I would think differently if I played it on PC (which wasn't possible at the time it came out because I use Linux - and there was no Steam Proton yet)? Who knows... Good post by the way, doesn't matter how long it is.

I read the whole post (difficult not to since that statement came at the end). Still can't find the causal connection.

Engagement/Disengagement has a lot more impact than it had in PoE. One of my favorite tanks is still an Unbroken/Trickster with large shield who has about 5-6 engagement slots. A Crusader is very tough from the start and gets Lay on Hands + Constant Recovery + Unbending as well as multiple resistances. For most parties that's tanky enough without a shield - but you'll have to use thick armor. Pet + Armored Grace help to counter the recovery malus. Enemies severely underpenetrating you is one of the best things for your survival. If you can combine it with more dmg mitigating effects (like food - see rice etc.) you can keep incoming dmg really low. Stuff like focused gunfire can still hurt, so switching to a large shield setup during such occasions is a good idea. But against most opponents you can go with a two hander or a dual weapon setup. Another idea could be to stack some retaliation. You can stack Flame Shields of Darcozzi and Magran's Blessing. Magran's Blessing also is a bashing shield as @thelee suggested (not small though). You could also take Brand Enemy. It's cheap and it has no recovery. So in theory you could spend most of your Zeal with putting Brand Enemy on most of the enemies and leave the rest for healing. Maybe one or two for Eternal Devotion (works with the Fire Shields as well). Brand Enemy is a slow death but inevitable (can't miss, has no duration). Except against fire immune enemies obviously. The fire shields + brand stack up decently enough. You can then add some other retaliation effects (there's not too many though). Late-game shenanigans: If you have a SC Furyshaper in the party then Brand Enemy (as any DoT) will heal you with every tick once the FuryShaper casts Blood Ward... So putting multiple Brand Enemies out will give you a never-ending trickle of healing (as long as there's a Blood Ward - which lasts a really long time).

I can confirm that. He wrote about it not too long ago.

I think that was done because players (smartly) put a weapon + slow modal (like +2 PEN or Bleeding Cuts) into their main hand and then something fast (dagger or such) into the offhand - then did only Full Attacks. With Bleeding Cuts that's a special kind of cheese since it's damage increase is very high (also because the DoT instances stack) and is only balanced somewhat by the horrendous recovery malus - which was circumvented entirely with the "old" Full Attack implementation. I frequently suggested to use Battle Axes that way and was recently surprised that it doesn't work anymore.

That might be. Does stuff like Missile Salvo also get +2 ACC per PL?

Was still about a great sword build though. So it has its place in this thread.

In PoE1 the stacking of seals (and traps) was fixed as well at some point iirc. You can "stack" any pulsing spell that has a long enough duration and is castable out of combat from stealth as long as you don't hit any enemy - see Chillfog for example or Wicked Briars. It's not exclusive to symbol of XY spells. Walls can't be stacked by a single char though (like seals). But you have to prevent that enemies get lured into the AoE by the noise of impact or stealth will break. I don't think it's overly powerful cheese in a normal playthrough (party setup I mean) because it's rel. tedious to manage. Abilities shouldn't be balanced around solo performance imo. +2 ACC per PL on Storm of Holy Fire: explains why I intuitively use it as often as I can. It always has great impact (as long as enemies aren't very resistant/immune). Since it's not too high-level this has some noticable effect later on. I think it's ok because the spell (like some others like Missile Salvo) has no foe-only area no matter your INT and can't be shaped with Spell Shaping. Both is annoying as hell if I am with a party - and balances out the higher ACC for me.

Shadowing Beyond nowadays also immediately breaks if you have some stuff like Gouging Strike/Bleeding Cuts/Poison Dipped/True Love's Kiss etc. going. I don't mean on appliance but also later if you re-use SB after the initial attack. I think I remember that this was a complaint after release and got changed - but it seems to have been reverted to its crappy state? Afair Smoke Veil does not break if you use it after applying those DoTs. I knew that ACC/PEN values etc. get updated all the time. Also see healing over time with Livehuber over the course of their shifting cycle and such things. I thought that was common knowledge (but what is in this game ;)). @thelee: did you also try and compare Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure? It doesn't break at all as long as you don't damage enemies (or use Walls - I guess hazards are somehow their own "character instance" which also explains their behavior with certain other buffs/debuffs etc.). It seems that there are not two similar invisibility effects in the game. Stealth, Shadowing Beyond, Smoke Veil, Vanishing Strike, Arkemyr's BD all use their own stuff. I suspect the original code got copied and then altered individually by different devs for each ability. Like every ability in the game that got reused (see Wizard spells which can be cast by Priest of Magran etc.) is indeed a copy and not a reference to some basic effect.