Muad'Dib

Well I'll probably buy it but not install it until the patch is realeased, as hard as that may be. But with the devs going to NWN 2 I doubt there may be a patch anytime soon...

Well so there goes my theory the game hasn't gone gold for bug fixing...darn. I hope there's some kind of patch in the works soon.

Hmm as much as I want to buy the game, if they are fixing all the bugs I suppose that I wouldn't mind waiting a bit longer. Course I might as well go completely delusional and think they're adding an extended ending and fixing all of the broken sidequests.

Yeah just once in a game that has "romance" I'd actually like to see characters display affection and emotion for each other other than lame dialogue. Too much to ask I suppose...

This might be a dumb question but is there any way to avoid these "bonus" dialogues, I plan to play the game several times and to be honest they sound kinda dumb. Would have liked them better as part of a gag reel than ingame after 3 playthroughs. Don't want to see that everytime I play after finishing the game 3 times.

No not a waste of money at all. I think the pros do outweigh the cons in this game though I truly have yet to play through it completely as I'm a PC owner not XBox. I loved the original a lot, I think many if not most of its best qualities are present here. And I definately am convinced Avellone knows how to write a good story. Loved the dark atmosphere, loved Nihilis, the twists are cool, robes, saber forms, influence. On the bad side well the response from Lucasarts on the XBox bugs is hugely disappointing, I expected much better from them. The broken quests and skills, crashes and lock ups are really my main gripe with the game. Now I also am very disappointed about no npc party subquests, Nihilis' actual role ingame, the less than climactic ending, the fact that the character is also left in level 25-29 also is hugely upsetting when they leave the ending open in cliffhanger since you virtually can't use that character again in the next game because he/she's too powerful. There is also no way they can make an expansion to finish the ending since the XBox can't get it also and the XBoxers would scream bloody murder at the top of their lungs. So basically all rests on KotOR 3, and since the PC has a good chance of being different that is very sad. While I also my be very vocal about all of my disappointments with this game I also recognize that as a whole (Should there be no bugs in the PC version) I would generally like it very very much. So I think it might be worth the purchase in its totallity. My two cents.

Well I remember when the huge flurry of bug reports came from the XBox release, it was asked to Akari whether the PC or International version would be any different. He responded I recall they'd be the same though he did say that the bug issues would be fixed for the PC and Intl. XBox versions. Of course it's been a while since then and not another word from the devs on this issue, I hope Akari was right and they managed to get the bugs out and have a patch in the works soon after if they didn't get most. I find fascinating how Gallo keeps giving the same monotonous response he's been giving since TSL was announced whenever asked about any changes or fixes, always the same we've changed the interface since the first game, yaddah yaddah and dodges the question completely. Of course had I a chance to ask Gallo everything I wish to ask there'd be quite a few things I'd like to know aside the whole bug factor. Such as: .

Gallo's comments about the PC version being essentially identical to the XBox version when they asked if they were going to fix all the reported bugs except for a little more polish is less than encouraging. I wish the devs here would comment on the bug issues, can't recall seeing anything about that since the XBox release. Oh well, hope I'm wrong and the game works out better on the PC.

I'm very skeptical about anything relating KotOR 3 just yet, after all KotOR 2 hasn't even gone gold yet for the PC and in the EGM interview recently posted Mike Gallo expressed there have been very little discussions about any sequels and that nothing had been finalized. Until any official announcements are made, I won't be getting any hopes up. As for the cast of the third, I sincerely hope they bring back the original protagonists of the first two. Revan has to at least be a prominent figure in the third's storyline, if only as an npc but one that does plenty throughout the third game. Considering K2's ending, the Exile should be the returning protagonist in the third as his/her story was left in the air. Though like many have suggested I would love nothing more to be able to use both protagonists in the third game to wrap up the story as a trilogy. The issue of the uber-powerful level both achieved is tha main obstacle to continue to use them as PCs, however I would hate much more having to use yet another new PC going to look for the previous two yet again...like Hades said, that's really pathetic storytelling and very unoriginal. Should there be a way to go around the level issue, perhaps then we can get a truly great ending for the KotOR storyline, because in my opinion once 3 is done they really should move on to a different era of the Old Republic away from Revan and Exile's timelines. But they need to finish this tale first, and a new PC will not do that for me. Revan had closure at the end of KotOR 1, but he was pulled back into the unresolved story of KotOR 2 as well as the Exile who is left also without resolution. Should the devs decide to make KotOR 3 with a new PC, in the very least they should make an expansion for K2 to finish promptly the Exile's tale. My two cents.

Of course this is just my opinion but two cutscenes and one battle hardly mount up to anything beyond a cameo. Sure he might have been talked about, his actions might have had influence in what was going on but the character himself really did almost nothing within the actual game. Been talked about is not presenting an actual presence for me, like many others I thought Nihilis would be given quite a large visible role in the game and am hugely disapoointed he wasn't. Considering how "important" we were allowed to believe he would eventually be, Nihilis ended up being just someone encountered in passing, kind of like Saul Karath in the original. Granted Nihilis was a little more important than Bandon in the first, but hardly comparable to screen time of Malak who was virtually in every evil cutscene and had 2 battles with the PC. Like I mentioned hopefully I'll be able to switch him with Sion so that I have the actual interesting saber battles against the cool looking Sith Lord.

Agreed NeverwinterKnight, however a simple resolution to the ending of KotOR 2 would be an expansion. Adding a some more areas or a new planet or two, new bosses, maybe a few side quests and leaving the ability to continue using the Exile so that the story can actually end (Which will be very difficult to do in 3 considering how uber-powerful the Exile is). If this were the case, it might redeem KotOR 2 somewhat, since an expansion would not take nearly as long to make as the third game and provided of course the ending doesn't suck. I guess we'll just have to see what happens post TSL PC release.

To the original question, yes. On the other hand, the delays in this particular game also provide a greater possibility of not suffering the numerous bugs and problems the XBox version has. And also we PCers have the opportunity for patches for gamefixes or extra content should Obsidian/LA give us any. That alone might make the additional months of waiting worthwhile.

Bah! Nihilis looks cool and that's the only reason he was overhyped by both the gamers and the devs. It was never stated how important or prominent Nihilis would be in TSL, it was automatically assumed he would be the main villain because he looks the part, instead of dumb Sion who just looks like a goon. I don't mind that Nihilis wasn't the main villain, however I'm extremely disappointed he was reduced to a mere cameo in terms of screentime and when you finally face him, he's a pansy. Man I wish Nihilis and Sion had been reversed, maybe someone will make a mod for the PC version that will allow that to be done and then I'll be happier. Oh well...

While I'd really like to believe that making a KotOR 3 would have anything to do with the desire to expand the story and characters and to give a proper ending to the saga (considering how they left off KotOR 2) before moving onto whatever they decide to come up with next. The plain truth will probably be as OSW said, the simple desire revolving around the almighty dollar, at least from LEC's likely perspective. We'll still have to see if at least any kind of expansion is made for KotOR 2 before that or if they go straight into 3, who makes it and where they take it...for the time being I'm just going to be skeptical until any kind of announcements are finalized however far from now that may be.

On the technical side of the issues I'm also awaiting the release of the PC version before passing judgment, and additional to that how quick and how much support is given through patches and the like should the PC version retain any or most of the bugs, that is if there is any kind of support from LA at all considering how the US XBox has been handled thus far. On the storyline aspect; should KotOR 3 not bring a conclusion to the saga and merely deliver a similar cliffhanger then definately I will be upset enough not to want the game, I hate cliffhanger endings and especially in RPGs where the characters max out their power levels and are then rendered virtually unusable again because they're too powerful, not ending their story really pisses me off. Then we get something similar like some new guy finding out what happened to the guy from the game before and that just sucks if there was still stories left untold for the previous character. I would also be upset should they not reimplement party sub-quests. The loss of connection with the rest of the party also bothers me, I like being the hero of the galaxy as much as the next guy but when every single game there's a hero of the galaxy that does everything himself/herself (Especially in linked storylines like KotOR's) then things just get too unrealistic for me within the context of the game's universe, ie it's to fake even for SW. These particular things would not prevent me from getting KotOR 3 however. Where I might not buy KotOR 3 is if: 1) KotOR 3 has a different PC and story and there was no expansion released before that to conclude the story left unended in KotOR 2. 2) KotOR 3 continues the story of 2 but ends in another stupid cliffhanger making it obligatory to rely on KotOR 4 and even subsequent games for closure and answers, each time with a new dumb protagonist because every time the protagonist of that game is so maxed out powerful he/she is rendered unusable in the next game.

Well Plooby, I'm just playing NWN for the first time right now, so I guess I'll see how that goes and if the expansions are better as many claim. For the most part though, expansions aren't close to being as good as the originals, at least for me. In any case, I still do want closure to the these particular characters and story whether by KotOR 3 or via expansion, as long as there's the ending the saga deserves I'll be happy. Nah Hades the noob will go missing also, considering they'll probably have the noob reach level 100, then in KotOR 4 some other idiot will be dispatched to find the first three...and so on...and so on...

Hades believe me that I know what you mean, with the supposed level cap at 50 Exile can be virtually an ultra-God should he/she be featured as the protagonist of KotOR 3, similar case with Revan. But considering that issue aside, in story term purposes, the Exile needs to be the protagonist of KotOR 3 thanks to the crap cliffhanger ending of KotOR 2, in my opinion. That story need a final resolution and those characters need closure. KotOR 2's ending was delivered in way where in the least the Exile has to be the returning protagonist in the third installment, though I want to se Revan featured again just as much as the Exile in the third one. As lame as something like Baldur's Gate 2's resolution was to make the original PC less powerful than where he/she ended up in the first game, I'd rather have some similar lame explanation why Exile/Revam are not as powerful as they were when they ended in the first two game and complete the actual story the way it deserves than to just begin with yet another Padawan wannabe picking up where the last two left off, to me that's even more pathetic than the lame loss of levels for one or both of the original protagonists. In any case, time will only tell what happens regarding an expansion or KotOR 3. I can live with "Sorry Exile you lost your powers and are at level 1 or 5 again work your way back" rather than "You remember that guy that went looking for Revan, well he's missing now too so why don't you go looking for both third misc protagonist".

The only problem with expansions at least as far as my experience with them is that they usually aren't even as close as good as the original was. Obviously they're a lot smaller and basically add only a thing or two. If the devs decide to end the game in that way I won't complain, as an ending is all I'm interested in seeing at this point. But of course I'd like it more to be a fully fleshed out game even more than a simple addon. I do hope though that the resolution goes beyond only a single ending for each alignment, probably too much to ask but a different experience at least few times when the game ends adds a lot more replay value and more appreciation for me. Still either one works for me, as long as the story and characters come full circle I'll be more than satisfied and happy.

Oh gotcha. Well I don't think I'd like to see a KotOR 3 that would pretend KotOR 2 didn't happen, if I understodd correctly that's what the Monkey Island did? No, I would just like KotOR 3 to deliver the ending to the storyline begun in KotOR 2. For me this means that the Exile must be the protagonist once again (Leveling issues aside) and if they actually want to make a true trilogy out of the games then Revan might be also a protagonist or in the very least an extremely prominent role in the third game. I know some people want a new PC but I really don't, while I know it would be lame to come up with some reason for Exile/Revam to start again from level 1 or a little higher like BG 2, I find it even more dumb to have yet another new Padawan wannabe takeover. I think they should just give the story of KotOR 2 and the character of Exile closure before they move on to someone new in a new story, that is if they do that at all.

If you were directing this at me I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean, never played that game. All I want is an ending to an unfinished story began in KotOR 2.

I appreciate the sentiment Epiphany and I'm very glad that you and others like the XBox but fact is that I have played it in a friend's house and I don't. Nevertheless, I'm disappointed in seeing the preferential treatment consoles get over PCs these days, all I'd wish for was equality, but that's too much to ask for. OT: I'm divided in my feelings about KotOR 2's success as has been expressed by others. I'm glad it's done well and that Obsidian's off to a good start, it is hopefully encouraging that perhaps Obsidian or some other dev will create a KotOR 3 giving a proper ending to KotOR 2, I can only hope. However the other factors mentioned such as the various problems with bugs, lack of support from LEC, and some of the decisions that went into the game itself (Though this last one is more of a personal dislike such as the ending, removal of npc subquests, lack of challenging enemies, etc) are less discouraging since success with such liberties only promotes LEC and whatever developer that may make KotOR 3 follow suit or maybe even get worse. I'd hope if there is to be a KotOR 3 that some of these would be improved upon, time will only tell.

Considering I've never owned an XBox nor will I ever, I can't say I agree with that cewekeds. I think KotOR should stay as far away from Microsoft as possible but then again I'm just a PC gamer, I am not as important to the market as XBox is.

Well Knight, I'm not very well versed in what companies exist that create games of the RPG genre and are good at it. My experience with RPGs (Both tabletop and VG) is very limited; other than Baldur's Gate 2, KotOR and Neverwinter Nights which I'm playing for the first time as we speak I haven't much more knowledge of this type of game. I don't include any Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star games that I played on consoles years ago, I don't see them really as RPGs at least like these. So aside from Bioware and now Obsidian, I'm very clueless who else exists that makes good RPGs; I recall Black Isle which disbanded (Many of these people now in Obsidian I believe) but asides these copanies I don't know. I never played PS:T or Morrowind so I don't know who made them. I suppose the lack of RPGs might be related to the lack of developers that exist creating in this genre? It seems now days RPGs has just become synonimous with MMORPG and almost all RPGs that come out are online games, a trend I don't like at all. SP RPGs become fewer as far as I can see, especially in PCs which is what I use, so what few devs exist tackle limited projects. I would love to see KotOR 3 finish up the series as I mentioned above, after that if there's any more KotOR games I want them to be so far unrelated that maybe the only link between them is the title of Knights and maybe a line that says oh yeah when Revan did this 1,000 years ago or something like that, otherwise KotOR 3 is just fine with me as the last entry in the series. The idea of Knights post-RotJ only has appeal to me if it is 1000s of years after RotJ, not close to the movie period and especially nowhere near NJO, if a Knights is made for much later than the movies then awesome, if not then fine. And an RPG made where non-Jedi PCs exist I'm all for also, all I ever was against was that KotOR were one of these as the games revolve around the Jedi to begin with, but a new RPG KotOR style or different with non-Jedi as protagonists would be great to see. If I'm lucky, someday maybe I'll get to see K3 done right to finish the saga and the new RPG with non-Jedi, anything else would be just a bonus for me. I played Galaxies also, the only concept I liked about that game was the ability to move around vast cities and move freely throughout the countrysides, etc in between. Everything else I hated, and after my original 3 months expired I never again rejoined nor will I ever. But I would love to see more RPGs like KotOR with different variations in style, era, etc developed in the long run, as KotOR is my fave SW game of all time.

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed here. I never actually felt KotOR 2 is a direct sequel to K1, actually it's a spin-off; different characters, different altogether story. I think it would have been a great idea to make each KotOR game it's own story and independent of what happened in the one before. Not that I wouldn't like seeiing the games related to each other, just not to have to depend on one another to complete the story. Since K2 finished the way it did, it would be downright poor judgment not to have K3 be a direct sequel, and I actually mean a direct sequel, not a new PC with completely new party picking up where Exile left off. All of this is level stuff aside, I only mean this from a storyline development perspective. How to balance the game to work like that, I don't know only for K2's story to have closure we need K3 to pick up with the Exile where he/she left off and if we can tie that directly with Revan, then all the better making all three games a true trilogy. I do wish they'd manage to get all the other stuff people complain about (Making it more challenging, using true d20, all of that) but for me the most important part sadly if that the story be delivered right and completed as it deserves. And for all of those others wishing non-Jedi PC classes, there should be a new line of RPGs with that feature implemented. Though that's aside from this so I won't get into that.

Like many have stated, the journey is just as important as the ending. A great ending will suffer greatly from a poor journey as there will be no motivation to reach that ending, no one will care enough, no matter how good the ending is. But in the flipside, a poor ending has the capability to completely ruin a great journey for me. How things turn out or how the characters end up after their journey has ended, if it does at all, greatly affects he way I appreciate the journey I've taken with them. I might have a wonderous journey, filled with triumph, defeat, sadness, joy or any other range of emorions but when that journey stops without closure or it ends in a way I was not hoping it to then it diminishes greatly the emotional investment I have put into the journey as a whole...I went through so much just to end up like that and every time I play again, I'm playing again to reach that again? When storylines are involved the ending is just as important as the journey taken. For these reasons I can say that I like the LotR Trilogy even more, because Return of the King was the ending that journey promised and deserved, where as I like the SW OT less, because I dislike RotJ so much. But in the end, as much for the journey as the ending it is all left to the individual. What one finds to be a remarkable journey others will not, same as the endings. I still like KotOR 2 very much, but I know now for sure that I do not like it above or as close as the original with all its faults, in great part due to the ending. If KotOR 3 delivers the ending to KotOR 2 that this game deserves, perhaps then I'll have a new appreciation for the second game and will reevalute my feelings about it. But as KotOR 3 will probably be with a new cast and maybe not even continue the story, if it's ever made, I'm not holding my breath. But I think both are crucial to the story, game, movie, whatever. To not have one is to deliver a mediocre product which doesn't live up to the potential it had.