Muad'Dib

Fardragon I think you've got quite an interesting idea. I think that an Atris betrayal, her being DS while pretending to be LS during the game, would be a huge twist to the game. I definately wouln't mind seeing something like this to give the story mpre depth as far as personal relationships between the characters goes and how that would affect all. It certainly compliments the overall story well when you have more personal substories and twists like this, feels less like a game and more like a real universe.

Wow this truly degenerated since the last time I looked at it...last night! First of all I stick to everything I said in my previous post. So where to begin: Nur: I get what you're saying. But from the various responses you've made here about how KotOR was so screwed up by Bioware, how Avellone and co are so inept, sounds to me you're not a fan of this game's series at all. What are you doing here? I mean if KotOR is so hopelessly terrible because of its lack in continiuty to the EU shouldn't you be focusing on some games that are more suited to what you like or what you are looking for? Also if Lucasbooks was to set the story for the KotNR game basing itself on the EU developed storylines you'd also lose a whole lot of players who frankly dislike the EU and what's being done with it. While there are many people that love the EU there are just as many that don't. Which is why I believe that games such as KotOR or JA include EU references (Such as Nomi Sunrider, Corran Horn, Tionne, Marka Ragnos, etc) but ultimately focus on an independent story and set of villains other than generic parties such as the Empire or Sith. This way they can appease the people who like the EU by giving special nods to it but also give something else to those that don't like the EU. A TotJ question for you also, shouldn't the Jedi of this time period also wear armors and their Lightsabers have a cable that connects to a battery pack on the belt? I've seen depictions of the KotOR knights this way, while I'm fine without the battery pack, I really wish we could have gotten true knight armor and helmets along with the new robes. So here's one complaint from me on something I think should have been placed from the comics or novels. ShadowFaxIV: I agree with you completely that people seem to forget that this is all material to be enjoyed instead of fighting over the details. You have to remember Shadow that not all people consider the games to be part of the EU timelines, I myself don't. I think that game devs can use the EU as a base for their games or incorporate aspects from the novels and comics to give a bigger sense of history but I don't think they are based on the EU completely. If I understood that one game must be part of the EU continuity then all games must fall under this. This would mean that Rebellion somehow must find a place in the timeline, Rebel Assault, Bounty Hunter, Ep1 Racer and Starfighter, X-Wing Alliance, even Galaxies would have to be placed inside. Many of these games contradict either themselves, the novels or even the movies sometimes. In X-Wing Alliance the protagonist flies the Millenium Falcon in the run against the second Death Star instead of Lando and Nien Nunb. I don't remember correctly but didn't the player also run the original Death Star trench run in Rebel Assault 1?. Galaxies now has Jedi vs Sith despite the fact that the Purge is supposedly occured, sure we have bounty hunters that hunt Jedi down but by the time the Death Star was destroyed having Jedi vs Sith confrontations was to my understanding unheard of. Even games like the original Jedi Knight disregarded the One Master/Disciple rule of the Sith and had 7 Sith Lords, I don't recall anyone complaining about that at the time. These are really crap examples but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. I get that EU people want the games to follow what's been done in the EU exactly and to be honest I have no problem with that as far as we're not talking Vong and NJO. However I'm also fine with games not following the EU exactly, to be honest I almost see the KotOR games as completely independent stories outside the SW timeline, as I play them it feels kinda like my own story and my own world that just happens to be based on SW. The kotOR games have not gotten everything the way I joped to see it either, I wished Korriban's valley was a hell of a lot bigger, I wish the Sith were not like the Empire and more like the Jedi in organization, etc. But I truly love the KotOR games and quite frankly feel they are, for me. the best SW games I have ever played. So hopefully we can go back to trying to enjoy what the game will provide as opposed to continue to complain about what it will lack, because for people who like the EU or not, I can assure you that everyone has something they'd wish was in KotOR but isn't. Wow, you actually read all that ^? He, he, sorry for the long posts again Nur

Developing a post-RotJ Knights is a difficult idea to do right. If the devs choose to follow the EU novels and comics they'd use to some degree the Imperial Remnant, maybe the Hutt Syndicate or groups similar to that. Since the Sith of this time follow the One Master/Disciple doctrine of Darth Bane, there would be a shortage evenly matched opponents for the Jedi to counter Lightsabers and Force Powers. I'm not sure how powerful Dathomirian Force Witches are in this regard but I doubt they'd make good main villains. They would either have to circumvent this by ignoring the doctrine to create Sith opponents, as the Jedi Knight games have done, or use the Yuuzhan Vong should they remain completely faithful. Considering how a lot of people really don't like the NJO, the Vong idea would not be a smart move in my opinion. Personally everything about the Vong was one of the things I most hated about the NJO series. No offense to ShadowFaxIV and people that liked the series or the Vong as a concept. The only way I really could see a Knights of the New Republic working would be to make it 1000s of years after RotJ, this way they can pretty much come up with everything that's going on. They'd have even more freedom to create than the devs making KotOR games since that far ahead hasn't even been tapped into. Plus it allows for EU enthusiasts to not have their timelines messed with. As for an enemy, I don't mind continuing to fight the Sith at all. To me the Sith are the counterparts of the Jedi, especially if the Sith were set up more like the Jedi and less like the Empire. You can have an Empire-like enemy also to balance the enemies with blasters while the Sith are more Jedi-like opponents. Maybe they're not even working together and you're fighting multiple groups for different reasons. Anyway my two cents

Well whatever they use, I think it would also be cool to see unarmed combat between Jedi and Sith, always thought that was missing from the movies. I hope the unarmed combat will be some kind of martial arts but there's a chance it's just plain old brawling that anyone can do and not necessarily a Force user. For some reason I doubt there will be loads of enemies coming at you unarmed throughout the game, so I'm really curious how they plan to implement this. I really hope it doesn't turn out to be a useless feat, considering there's so many different kinds of weapons: blades, blasters, lightsabers, etc.

You're right sstep that it was mentioned that there will be some kind of unarmed combat abilities though nothing else has been revealed about that yet. They weren't specific if it is martial arts such as Teras Kasi or some kind of brawling. In the older pictures Atton seemed to be fighting with his fists instead of a weapon in some shots, but I'm uncertain if that has any specific relation to the unarmed feats. Teras Kasi would be cool to see though, my only real source for it was Star Wars Galaxies and it wasn't terribly exciting there, hopefully here they would make it more stylish, heh fighting matrix style without the bullet cam every 30 secs.

My God are people still fighting because of the way Korriban looks? This has gone beyond ridiculous now. Nur: Big thumbs up for the pics, I don't really like the first one just looks like a very narrow passage between two huge and long walls, the other two with the temples look much better. Ah JA, brings back memories there. ShadowFaxIV: I'm a little confused after reading your post, are you commenting against the EU protesters of how the Valley looks or against the people that don't like the EU? Can't any side just agree to disagree and accept their own point of view as their own and other people's as thieirs?

From the video I also noticed that inside the Academy the floor seemed collapsed and that there are several catwalks now in place. Seemed to me there were some previously unseen chambers below the Academy, perhaps another tomb or temple we haven't previously seen in the first game. I agree completely Darth Ni, I'm very interested in seeing how Korriban will be used in this new game.

Yeah it could be. Heck the Sith'Ari might not even be mentioned in KotOR 2 at all though. I do wonder where they were going with that sub-story.

Oh I fully get that. And I'm pretty sure that is how it is going to be set up, with Bastila having a predetermined fate in the game. But I would have liked the option to have Bastila go down different paths, the dev's path could still be in there, only have more options available from the decisions made in the game. Anyway I was trying to explain to Influence how it could have been possible for Bastila to return since there are already so many other women in the party, I don't actually believe they were going to do that. Hmm, why does this thread continue to regenerate as if I wrote it down recently, I wrote this response a while back and almost every time I come back it appears as if I just wrote it...weird

I find interesting the idea of the Sith'Ari. I'm not too sure they are referring to the Prophecy of the One, because as I've always understood it, that's a Jedi Propehcy...the One who will bring balance to the Force. The Prophecy of the Sith'Ari as I understood, was the rise of a supreme almost God-like Dark Lord who would bring the Sith to ultimate victory and reign the galaxy. But you guys could be right and it might just be 2 interpretations of the same prophecy. Still I kinda like the idea that the Sith'Ari and the One are different, it makes sense that both the Sith and the Jedi have their own prophecies.

The link streams the movie so it'll download it and automatically play it after its done. Right below the player is a small link to download it to your HD if you want to, stop the stream then click that link and you should be able to download it from the new page it opens. If you enter via the KotOR 2 main page and go to media or video sections you can download the small Windows Media Player version for free. The bigger one and the Quicktime versions are only allowed for members. But I think clicking download from there just opens the stream and the download link below it just like the one in the first post.

There's also that picture that shows the player being enveloped by some kind of energy and below it says that the player feels the DS surging within or something like that. I think it would be awesome to have a duel inside one of the temples as you describe Darth Sun-Tzu, some kind of throne room or tomb would make for an visually interesting battle.

Korriban could be the place for a showdown with one of the 3 Sith Lords, it would certainly fit. I figure also it might be a place to test the player's character (will and personality) by trying to lure him/her to the DS. Perhaps if you succumb you begin Sith training there, if you pass then you duel one of the 3? Maybe that's where you actually find Revan, depending if Korriban has a static or open place within the story or if you have to visit it more than once.

From the dev interviews I've seen Kreia has been described as the mentor character for the player, described as Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon-like. I'm certain she'll teach some if not most of what the character can learn at least LS... Who knows if for the DS one of the very Sith Lords becomes your mentor.

I've seen some artworks, not really sure if they were comics, novels or what but there was one particluar I remember where she was brunette. And it wasn't fan art this was a while back still it was in EU books published under Lucasbooks. I don't recall the exact titles of the books, these are VERY old, only that these were two of the mysteries revealed about Boba Fett. Oh and I'm certain the cop Boba Fett and the female Boba Fett were two different interpretations of who Fett supposedly was. These books were released well before the prequels were even planned, late 80s maybe. Sio Bibble also claims there hadn't been a full scale war for over a thousand years in Ep1, supporting Palpatine's statements. Morevover no one in the movies debated or denied the claim that the Republic is 1K years old. Lucas probably changed his mind as he does about many things in his stories. Yep that's the guy It may have been supported by Lucas at the time it was written, nonetheless the movies presented a very much different Coruscant and no longer has that interpretation as the official one. As you know the movies overule anything in the EU, good or bad, so if Lucas changed his mind how Coruscant is then the version he put in the movies is the true one. I don't think I was tearing the EU apart, if I gave you the impression it certainly was not my intent. I may not like many things about the EU (Mostly thier view of the Force and the NJO) but I certainly don't have anything against other people liking them. I'm very glad you've got enjoyment from the EU; I personally loved Shadows of the Empire, thought Thrawn was a cool character and I find TOTJ interesting, though I haven't read the comics yet. Careful, lets not make this personal. I have not made any attacks on anyone or if anything I said seemed that way it was purely not intended as such. I fully respect what you're saying and hope you respect my point as well, even if we disagree. The canon or non-canon issue is certainly not a done deal or closed. I wish I could name names but I've seen plenty of statements from the publishers that clearly state that the EU is not canon; only the movies, the movie novelizations and the scripts are canon and have the final word. Everything else is just under the official Lucas license. Lucas himself said many times over the EU is an alternate universe to his own. Now, refuse this, deny it, demand to see proof or links which I can't provide but I'm not making this up. I certainly understand why you would want Korriban to look like it did in the comics, I understand why Darth Nuke wants continuity in its appearance because he has a preset image of the place and wants it to stay that way. The first time I played KotOR I was wondering if indeed it would look like the place I saw in JA only with some differences from the passing of time. It didn't happen, nevertheless I enjoyed Korriban a lot in both games. I disagree with you that the games especially are following the exact same outlines from the novels and comics. I tried to point out that it might be that the developers wanted their game to be their own, their interpretation of a particular place or character whatever. If the devs simply made a mistake and they wanted to make the exact same place instead of using it as a base, then it was just that a mistake on their part. All I was hoping to tell Darth Nuke was that he try to enjoy the game as it were with all its faults, whether he liked them or not, so we could all continue discussing the game and not a specific detail some people dislike and some don't. I wish I could be more specific with my examples, have names, dates, links and pictures, but alas, much of this stuff I saw back long time ago. There were books I believe about the clone wars also at some point which are different to what the movies represented. I hope we can continue to have interesting conversations about what KotOR 2 has to offer. I apologize for my long posts and for this continued pointless argument for which there will never be resolve. I'll stick to Koriban as a topic now and no longer debate on this matter. Edit: Thanks for the clarification Eduardo!

As long as the story was rich enough that it could be expanded, I'm all for a longer game. Especially if that would mean more character development and deeper explorations of their relationships and the study of the Force. I'll be disappointed if this game is the same length as the original, especially since the devs said they wanted to make more sub-quests and more missions than part 1, then that means they'll be rather short quests and missions. A long game isn't necessarily a bad one either, I had Baldur's Gate 2 installed over 6 months and I didn't even make it halfway through and I considered that a great game. I lost interest because I was playing co-op with a friend and after we couldn't get more time playing I didn't want to start all over again at that point. But I eventually will play it again and hopefully finish it.

Eduardo: Sorry man, I'm not ignoring you but I don't have the X-Box nor have I ever played the original game in it. I only know how Korriban looks in the PC version. Darth Sun_Tzu: As to what happened in the planet after KotOR 1; the Republic might have attacked it, the Academy was in complete disarray in LS version after Revan wiped out everyone there not sure of DS, maybe the Siths abandoned Korriban, maybe they killed themselves trying to get the mantle of Dark Lord. I suspect Korriban is not nearly as abandoned as we're being led to believe, I think there will be some surprises waiting for us there. As to why we go there in the first place, the most logical assumption is pursuing Revan to find out what happened to him/her. We could be going there on clues of the Sith cults being based there or trying to find out who is leading the Sith and trying to wipe out the Jedi. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this.

Actually there have been depictions of Mara Jade as a brunette also. Though the vast majority do depict her as a redhead. Oh I thought you were talking about the EU that established Boba Fett as a space cop who was frmaed by the intergalactic mob for his partner's murder...or the EU that claimed that Boba was in fact a woman like Metroid's Samus Aran...or the EU that claims Coruscant is 25K years old when the movies have clearly expressed it is 1K...rhe EU where Coruscant is a cest pool where the citizens have to live in the very peaks of the sky scrapers because ground level is filled with pollution, disease, gremlins and ewoks. We must be talking about two different EUs right seeing as the EU's continuity is flawless... There is no continuity except what's set in the movies. Everything else is up for debate, change, modification, alteration, redesign and expansion. I fully respect your opinion Darth Nuke but that's all it is, just like mine. Again take Korriban in KotOR as is or go play something else. You are making way (And I seriously mean way) too much out of the design of the Valley. Boy you'd think this were a topic as so critical as Han shooting first or something...

Right, that's why they asked the devs if the game would have references and elements of the EU...considering it is the EU already right? Believe whatever you want; the Vong invaded the galaxy, the Force is something that can be forgotten or ripped from someone, the Republic is 25K years old, the Sith were an Empire-like military, there's such a place as the Valley of the Jedi where the Force can be injected into people like adrenalin, Luke chose Yavin to build his Academy, there have been 300 clones of multiple villains, planets can be moved with repulsor lifts, and no one can think outside the box and make anything their own because everything in the EU is established canon that can't be changed for any reason whatsoever, oh yeah Boba Fett is also alive and well after his digestive adventure. There's hardly any point in continuing to debate something like this, according to you you're right and there's no possibility for any other point of view. Like I said I'm sorry you don't like Korriban in KotOR, live with it or don't, the choice is yours. When Feb rolls around the corner I very much will enjoy continuing to explore KotOR's Korriban, frankly I'm estatic it is one of the two returning worlds from the original, as Korriban was my favorite. And in case you're wondering I also liked the look of the Valley in JA, my fave level in that game, but I like variety.

You seem to be misunderstanding my point...my point isn't that the Valley of KotOR has continuity or has an explanation for being that way. My point is that it doesn't need to have continuity. This isn't the EU, this isn't depicting any events in the EU, and though now people may use material from this in the EU, as they have incorporated Kyle Katarn, it still doesn't make this the comics or novels. If Lucas showed Korriban in the movies (I know he won't but had it happened) and it were different completely from the EU depiction then not even the Valley from the comics would be the true Valley. I'm sorry you don't like this depiction of Korriban, I do. So I suggest you try to get over it and enjoy the game should you get it. If this really bothers you that much then go play something else, you really lose nothing by going elsewhere since obviously the darn design of the world hampers your ability to enjoy everything else this game has to offer.

Laozi you are so right on this point. I remember back when Ep1 came out some idiot was complaining that Coruscant was not the real Coruscant because it was too clean and didn't match with the description of it in some EU novel.

I know that JA used the accurate Valley, I remember comments about that in the JA forums back when the game was new. What I was referring to was that Bioware introduced their own interpretation of the Valley. And I very much disagree with you that everything is continuity. The EU has never (To my knowledge) written comics or novels incorporating Malak's and Revan's quest for the Star Forge into the EU timeline. That would be as accurate as saying that the Rebel Assault games or Bounty Hunter are accurate depictions of events in the timeline. Lets us also not forget that the EU itself is riddled with continuity errors big and small. If the guy that designed the Valley said he was trying to portray the Valley from the comics and he made a mistake in his depiction then too bad for him. I thought the Valley was pretty cool. And since there are a lot of people who like me don't really give any weight to the EU anyways, I am glad to see KotOR the game have a unique look that sets it apart from the comics. However, what I would not have accepted was a complete alteration to a locale seen in the movies, other than changes that might have occured between the passing of time. I don't know if you've played Battlefront, it has an interesting representation of Kashyyyk which looks completely (And I mean completely) different to the Kashyyyk of KotOR. I have yet to see any pics of Kashyyyk in Ep3, but since Battlefront supposedly depicts the battles from the movies and LA had the opportunity to see how the worlds of Ep3 look for various games, there's a possibility that Kashyyyk in Battlefront looks fairly accurate to Ep3, thus making KotOR's version wrong also. I think you take continuity a little too serious, particularly when it comes to games, like I said I don't think it was the intention of Bioware to completely emulate the depictions of the comics and novels, merely to use them as inspiration for their own creations.

I think you seem to forget that the games don't necessarily follow the EU to the letter anyways. In the EU there was no second Sith war for the Star Forge, there was no Revan or Malak nor are there Sion or Nihilis or any other characters from the games. The games use concepts, backgrounds and bases of the EU but I hardly doubt they are trying to recreate the EU as it has been written, it is quite frankly a reinterpretation, which suits me just fine. I've never read the comics. I've played both JA and KotOR and I like the fact they both had different approaches to the Valley of the Sith Lords. KotOR (The games) have their own visions of what Korriban was like, their own stories, their own characters. To tell you the truth the only thing I didn't like about KotOR's Korriban was that I found it too small; not enough temples, tombs, broken statues, no ancient Sith fortresses to explore. Of course that'd be asking a bit much.

It would certainly be interesting to see just how dark the game could go with an M rating plus that might actually have lightsabers function properly and dismember. Sadly I doubt this game will have a rating above Teen like the original. Is there something between Teen and Mature in gaming? If so, they could try to take a cue from Ep3 which will be PG-13 as opposed to the other PG SW movies, but I doubt that too.

I see it. It's the first entry in the main page. If you still can't see it, here's the link to the preview: http://www.armchairempire.com/Previews/mul...-sith-lords.htm In the end it does claim both will come out in December but I'm certain that was just a mistake in the part of the writer of the preview. Probably saw Gamespot's Developer Interview number 2 were Mike Gallo claims both are being released simultaneously in winter and both are at the same stage of development, probably thought the Dec release date was for both.