Jediphile

I also disagree with this statement. I played PnP long before I played any cRPG and my first encounter with the concept of AC was from AD&D. And I never thought decreasing AC made much sense. Then again, I think AC the way it works in either D&D edition is stupid anyways. But that is beside the point. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, that's the point exactly. AC is *stupid*. It makes no sense at all, and attempting to explain it logically is far more difficult than it is whether it should be counted up or down. Why start at 10 anyway? That's silly too, isn't it? I mean, a high AC is good (in 3e), right? So why does my character get a full 10 points to begin with?

Nah, the KotOR games are already flowing over with gear that is way too powerful. A +1 bonus is nice a low levels without tipping game balance, but at high levels it really can be abused awfully. I think in K3, they should include more items that give a bonus, but which are fixed to how good the stat it modifies already is - if the stat is already fairly high, then the item shouldn't do anything at all.

On VERY rare occassions stickies are made for a reason <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :"> Well, I really didn't care about the stats anyway... "

Yes. Once the Exile and whoever he took with him are done on Onderon, the game puts you back outside the Ebon Hawk, where there is a member of the group you sent to Freedon Nadd's tomb waiting for you (and I think it's always whoever you chose to lead that group). As you approach, the character talks and mentions he or she learned something from the experience, but that he or she will talk about it later... only they never do.

I think I read somewhere that while Malak's armor is in the game, it is only there insofar that it's stats and description can be found in the game files, but not so that you can actually find it. Even if you could, it is a highly powerful item, which would require a random drop at the high end of the power scale... And IIRC it's not even that hot even if you manage to get your hands on it. Can't remember the stats, though.

The line you refer is this: "The Ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V.The Sith fleet attacking Telos appears to be composed of many damaged warships... the wreckage of a great battle." No offense, but I think that to just say "he used it to escape imprisonment" is to take it out of context. It certainly seems quite clear to me that Nihilus was simply stranded on Malachor V until he took control of the Ravager and then used it to leave the planet. Even if you disagree, it is at least a valid interpretation, isn't it? They were "born" on Malachor V in the sense that that is where they became Nihilus and Sion. Before that they had been something else. And yes, I agree that they were probably both jedi, who were horrible corrupted by the dark side and the powers of Malachor V. As for "died and reborn", I think Nihilus (or rather, who he used to be) did indeed die or nearly so on Malachor V. I also think that he was a close friend or similar to the Exile, and that this is probably how he "learned" his powers from the Exile. But that's another discussion.

Exactly what I want to see as well. Can't remember if I voted for "J" already, but if not, I will now. I'd rather explore Sith space in at least half the game (we need to see a little of republic, definitely Coruscant, and I'd like Alderaan, Sleheyron and Myrkr as well). I'd like to see Sith worlds like Khar Delba/Khar Shian (where Naga Sadow had his secret base) and naturally Ziost (the throneworld of the Sith, where the dark lord rules from).

Well, as Kreia points out, Malachor V is an unusual place with special connections to the dark side of the force. Kreia: "There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death. Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side. Did you never wonder how Revan corrupted so many of the Jedi, so much of the Republic, so quickly?The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion.Culminating a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from..." It seems to me that it is the corruption Revan subjected the jedi to on Malachor V and the strange powers of the place gave birth to Nihilus. It is also clear that this has direct ties to the Exile. Note what the masters say, when you return to the enclave on Dantooine: "The last Jedi conclave was on Katarr, a Miraluka colony. And all of Katarr was destroyed, all of the Jedi killed...Including Master Zhar... Master Vandar... A Jedi doesn't care if he dies. Everyone does, but when we fight, when we sacrifice ourselves, it is for others, for the greater good. But our presence must not endanger others. And as long as we were visible targets, we were a threat to everything around us.There was a gathering of Jedi on the planet - when we realized that something was attacking us, we resolved to meet secretly to attempt to find this threat.Then... Katarr was no more.When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly. This echo travels in the places where death has walked, where planets have died. Massacres fuel its power, the death of life fuels it." Before you dismiss this as just a consequence of both the Exile and Nihilus being on Malachor V at the time, note the following, which is also said by the masters during the enclave meeting: "The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you."

True enough. I did have fun playing Diablo II... at least until I finished it and had watched all the videos. Then my interest took quite a nose-dive... Diablo II is completely dependent on having friends online to play with. Running around in single-player is not so much fun, especially since it is specifically engineered towards increasing your chances of finding loot that only the other classes but your own can use. I do understand the principle, but I always felt that was a bit silly. I mean, the chances of a really cool item being usable to your specific class was only 20% or lower to begin with, so what's the point?

So, if a person is a force adept yet chooses not to mass murder everything in sight, that automaticly makes them a "Grey" jedi? Sounds pretty stupid. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, I must have given the wrong impression. Sorry about that. A force adept is a force adept. He is neither jedi nor sith, but neither does he have any of their specific powers or more potent connection to the force. This was true of Chodo Habat. Jolee, however, is a grey jedi, because he doesn't follow the jedi code strictly. But he's still a jedi, not a force adept or a sith. And both jedi, sith and force adepts are all force sensitives, since they have connection to the force.

I have checked the entire dialog.tlk file searching for both "prisoner" and "Nihilus". Not once did this lead me to information that would support that Nihilus was ever a prisoner of the Mandalorians. Wherever that piece of information came from, it is not in the game.

Nothing. This dialoge is never accessable unless you ask her immediatly after she joins your party (meaning before you head to your first planet after the Academy) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, it's a glitch same as asking Visas about force sight (and actually several other in the game...) Hopefully the Restoration Project will fix that too.

You should also consider just once doing an "adventure" where nothing is wrong. Everything is as it should be, though people naturally have their secrets and misgivings as they always do, which will make the PCs suspicious, as they think this is something they need to investigate. For that sort of thing you need detailed descriptions of the NPCs so that you know their secrets and what they will say to avoid revealing them. Just be aware that it only works once - you can never do it again after that!

that would be cool <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with this also. Though, the PC should be a force user (for story signifiance and such). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> force sensitive <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can't people use the force without having to be a Jedi or Sith? (Knows nothing about SW) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, they can. They're called Force Adepts. Chodo Habat, the leader of the Ithorians on Citadel station at Telos, was one in K2. "Grey" jedi are still jedi, though, not Sith nor force adepts. They're just jedi who don't adhere strictly to the conventions of the jedi code.

I misread then. Mea culpa. So what would you suggest? I would prefer beginning as a young jedi (level 1) with next to no force powers and no lightsaber. Once you advance to level 2, you would build your own lightsaber and then go from there. Basically I'd have an introduction that runs a little similar to Revan arriving on Dantooine in K1, only you would actually have a few encounters and maybe a fight or two.

to all your ideas. I agree, starting as a full fledged Jedi is a bad idea. However, becoming a Jedi before the first quarter of the game is essential. Thats why a longer game is a must. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree. If you find that beginning as a jedi is bad due to K2, then I think you might be forgetting just how much people tend to dislike the entire Peragus section. That's because it was badly designed both playwise and plotwise, totally unlike K1, where you had to interact with people on Taris rather than fight endless hordes of droids. I see no reason why the game can't be just as exciting as even if you begin as a jedi. Besides, we know we'll walk the path of the jedi - Knights of the Old Republic is about jedi first and foremost, which is as it should be IMHO.

They were CRPGs for their day and age, but their day has long since past. The genre has evolved in case you didn't noticed. If a gold box styled game tried to come out today it wouldn't be a CRPG by today's standard. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure they would be. Imho, technical limitations were the only things keeping the developers from adding as much depth and detail as they may have wanted. That said, games like Curse of the Azure Bonds and Champions of Krynn had fairly detailed stories, from what I remember. Plus they were based on AD&D rules -- can't get much more RPG than that. The first game that really started to get away from that was Hillsfar, and that was a truly awful game. I'd say the old goldbox games would be alot like the IWD series. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's not whether it's based on AD&D rules or whatever that decides whether it's an RPG. What decides is whether there is Role-Playing in it. That means that there must be genuine choice. A game that has a completely fixed plot and progress is not an RPG. This is true for the Diablo games - the plot is fixed and there is only one way to progress through it until the predetermined end. Not so for the old gold box games. The plots were fairly fixed, yes, but it was usually divided into submissions, which you could then take in any order and even skip some completely. I still remember fondly how I chose between the various missions in the townhall of Phlan in "Pool of Radiance" (the original!) - I may have played them all because I wanted to explore every corner of the game, but I didn't have to - it was my choice to play them all. You can't do that in Diablo - there is a fixed progression of events that you must follow whether you like it or not. I may have enjoyed Diablo at times, but I never mistook it for an RPG. KotOR games are more RPGs, because you have choice in many situations - will you buy the wraid shell off the poor woman who lost her husband

It says so, yes, but even if it is true that LA has set Revan as LS in canon, it's still immaterial to the progress of the KotOR games. You can definitely set Revan to DS in K2, and K3 is almost certainly going to take flak if it proceeds on the basis of just presuming that Revan (and possibly the Exile too) was LS. Though I certainly prefer LS myself (and played DS just once in each game just to see the alternatives), there are lots of fans who'll be disappointed if Revan (or Exile) is suddenly fixed in a certainl alignment... let alone gender <_< I don't think it will matter, though. K1 had a very final ending, where the outcome for LS or DS were quite different. K2 seems to do a lot of work to "reconcile" the two very different endings in K1, so that you can play the same plot with a great degree of consistency either way, and in the end you identify an enemy - the true Sith - who is common to both LS and DS. K2 seems engineered plotwise toward reconciling the different outcomes of K1 and set up a common ground situation for K3. It did a good job of it too, though there are a few plotholes here and there - the StarForge being just sort of discarded in the DS Revan option for one, while the true Sith seem to be a very opportune enemy - suddenly they were there manipulating events all the time, even staging the Mandalorian Wars and so forth... On the other hand, LS Revan's work to save the republic is almost ruined in K2 with Sion and Nihilus hunting down most of the remaining jedi. But to answer your question, no, I don't think the republic is prepared enough. I think Revan realised this, and that is why he left. If we presume that Kreia is right and Revan decided to sacrifice himself by becoming the Dark Lord to prevent a greater evil (and I prefer that, since it makes Revan's story even more tragic), then Revan has made a very big mistake, because in his zeal to stand against the enemy he saw (the true Sith), he did exactly what Anakin did - he became the very thing he had sworn to destroy. After K1 Revan left alone, because he would not be the cause of any more corruption to the jedi in his stand against the true Sith. I also think he altered his tactics for fighting them, but that's pure conjecture.

Just like some people on here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ouch! :">

I thought they were mildly entertaining. Certainly the visuals (i.e., the movies) were excellent. But I sure don't want to hear *anyone* calling these "hack 'n slash"-fests Role-Playing Games - they're not!

Revan and the jedi masters would disagree, I think...

True - I love it when a swarm of insects drop random treasure like a full plate mail... "

Why can't the Exile love Handmaiden (male Exile) or Atton (female Exile)? They do appear as genuine love interests in K2. Mira is said to die on some forgotten planet, yes, but Kreia also says that this will happen "in many years time", so it seems incorrect to assume anything about her in K3. I would agree with you on Mandalore, though. I don't see why any of the other characters would be there, except for T3 and HK-47, which seems to be serve the same function that R2 and 3PO did in the movies. Atton and Handmaiden would not be appropriate for the same reasons that you cite for Visas and Disciple, perhaps Handmaiden more so, since you can get the same argument from Kreia about leaving those you love behind for her that you can for Visas (male) and Disciple (female). Besides, Handmaiden is supposed to take up Atris' role of historian (LS), so it wouldn't be appropriate to make her a companion in K3. And I don't see why Bao-Dur or Carth would be in there at all. Sure, they will be there as NPCs that you can meet (depending on the alignments of Revan and Exile), but I don't see them as companions. Since Kreia mentions the Exile's companions as 'the Lost Jedi', I find it more likely they will form the basis of a new emerging jedi order, and Bao-Dur would be part of that (unless he is considered to have died, as it was apparently planned in K2). Carth shouldn't be a companion because he is an admiral in the republic fleet (LS Revan). He would be significant in a game where Revan is female, but that would be relevant only toward the end of the game, I think, where he can serve the same plot purpose as an NPC. Personally, I'd rather have a smaller party, where people come and go. I suggested once (in case of a LS Revan) that you could meet Jolee and have him join the group, only he would remain on the planet where you met him and not travel with you. So once you left, he would leave the group again. A temporary companion, if you will. I'd like to see something similar for Mission, Zaalbar and Hanharr. I do think, though, that one companion should definitely be Bastila

No, you're not...

This sounds like a reasonable beginning, though it's not what I would have done. It's still just a background, isn't it? I mean, who is the central PC in this plot? Also, Revan left the republic a year after the events of K1, which means that by the end of K2, he has been gone for over four years. That's a pretty big gap to fill with just an explanation of him being captured by the true Sith. And then there's the question of why they leave him alive. Revan is a great threat to the true Sith, so leaving him alive, even as a prisoner, really just gives him the option of escaping later (sort of like all the villains in the Bond movies, who always tell him all their plans, then leave him to die instead of just putting a bullet in his head and get it over with...)