Jediphile

Well, in a sense, yes it is. Unfortunately its creator is deadly serious. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unfortunately he is. I mean, I can read his comic and laugh hard, but it really scares the wits out of me that there people out there who truly believe garbage like this. Don't forget, we're all gamers here, so we're probably "misled by the word of Satan" already. I'm a role-player and GM of more than a decade (no comparisons to the goth DM of the comics, please ), so my soul is probably oh-so black and sordid, and I probably lead innocent players away from the Lord Jesus and to their eternal doom before I meet with the other GMs and drink blood and hold virgin sacrifices or whatever... (Do these people even realise how rare real virgins are?) Yes, Jack Chick is dead serious. But for another humorous take, someone subjected the entire comic to a Mystery Science Theatre 3000 approach on Planet AD&D. Take a look - it's truly hilarious (and puts Jack Chick in his place).

Cthulhu is gothic horror, so you have to play with their nerves. First advice is props. Whenever the investigators get a note or other important writing, make sure to have it written out. I prefer to write it in word, print it out, and then tear and fold the paper a bit to make it seem worn and haphazard. Also play on the things the characters can't do anything about. A cthulhu zombie is not of the regular D&D slow-punching-bag variety - in Cthulhu they are actually very dangerous... unless you're playing the d20, which I've never played, nor intend to. IIRC, the Haunting has a bed on the first floor, which the zombie can animate to attack the investigators. That's a good place to start, because how do you fight a bed? They can sit down on it, lie in it, whatever - it's just a regular bed, no questions. But if they go close to the window, it'll suddenly leap forward and push them out. I remember running one Cthulhu game, where the characters were talking to a dying man. To underscore the mood, I had a hankerchief with me, in which I put some ketchup just before I used it in a feigned cough. That sort of thing is good for mood - sure, it's a bit theatrical, but then that's what you want. Oh, and Cthulhu works best in long campaign/adventures, I think, because you'll lose lots of characters along the way. Among the best are "Walker in the Wastes" and the (complete) "Masks of Nyarlathotep".

True, but there is still a limit to how much you should have to put up with. I really can't stand the hard-line and holier-than-thou Christian types, especially when they resort to outright misinformation and hateful propaganda. Like Jack Chick. I mean, how do you even talk to people like this? They are the worst, for they make dispel my belief that a meaningful and constructive dialogue is possible.

Midi-chlorians? Yes, silly. Totally disperses the mysticism and magic of the force. JarJar? - Play Star Wars that lets me kill gungans? Wound in the force? Actually I liked the idea. That wasn't about silly medi-chlorians or other such nonsense, but more the will to deny your fate and suppress the truth. If they follow up on that in K3, it could be very interesting. But they could also mess it up completely, if they don't get it right.

Well, in the sense you're describing, I actually see atheism as its own sort of "religion" in that sense that it is a religion that says there are no higher beings and that any and all comments to the contrary are delusions. In that sense, atheists are just as bound to respect other religious beliefs, as followers of other religions are to respects their's (i.e., that there isn't any). I consider myself more of an agnostic in that I don't believe that there are any gods. But unlike an ateist, I'm not ruling out the possibility entirely - I just don't think that it matters. I will, if I choose, try to convince others that I might be right, in which case I would be using my right to free speech. But I will accept it if people disagree with me, because I have to respect their belief if I'm to truthfully expect that they will respect mine. If they tell me that they don't want to hear my arguments, I will not pursue them, because I too reserve the right not to listen. People have the right to believe whatever they want. I'm not going to have issue with it, unless they begin to take actions that affect other people as a consequence of their beliefs. When they do that, society can and should interfere and ask questions - no matter what your religion is. I'm not saying all muslims support the recent fury. I know many do not. But some of them do burn down embassies in the name of islam. Some of them do carry out suicide bombings in the name of their religion. Some of them do fly planes into buildings with thousands of people with others cheering in the streets over it. When that happens, islam will be questioned and should be, just like any other religion.

Well, the wound is personal - it was created by the Exile's choice. So I don't see how it would extend to his offspring. Just because a man lost an arm doesn't mean his son will be born without one too. Maybe that's a bad example, but the force does seem to be physically measurable (midi-chlorian counts... Yes, I hate that explanation too).

Welcome. Too long. K2 seems to end in a way that directly sets up K3, so it should be a fairly short time after that, I think. Not more than a few years at most. Ah, a love-thing. Several problems here, notably that perhaps the Exile was female herself, and even if not, the Exile may still have sacrificed Visas to defeat Nihilus. You may not prefer those factors, but they are still viable alternatives in K2 and therefore must be taken into consideration for the plot of K3. Since that outcome is fairly central and pretty much ruled out by the options of a female Exile and maybe even a DS male Exile, I'm rather convinced that will not happen. I have voiced support for this myself in the past. It does have the problem not being possible if the Exile was DS and so turned them all to the dark side, but then that could be solved by replacing the known characters with new jedi if the jedi are, well, lost... Still, either handmaiden or disciple could appear anyway. Bastila is also a problem if Revan is DS, but then I don't want her there anyway - she should still be out there looking for Revan. No, we cannot assume that HK was on Malachor V. Though the cut content may suggest that, it was not in the official version of the game and therefore cannot be assumed. However, that also means that Bao-Dur cannot be assumed to have died, since the entire section of his alleged death was also cut from the game. Besides, we know that HK survives, because he appears in a Star Wars: Galaxies expansion much later in Star Wars history, so HK-47 must live either way. And we cannot have KotOR without HK-47. That would be sacrilige! Erm... You *do* realise that T3 has been aware of this all along, don't you? It was T3 who locked the navi-computer in the first place... And the council arbitrarily deciding this after nearly two decades seems very odd, especially if there is no particular reason to. Yes, the "random" loot is a fair bit too random for my tastes as well

I don't think the current combat system is bad as such. I prefer that over the real-time stuff of the JK games. As has been said, this is an RPG, and the only way your combat skills and feats are going to count for anything is they are deciding factors during combat. I just think the current system could be implemented better than it is now, or even replaced by a better system that is still based on the skills and feats of the character.

The truth is that I already have Jedi Outcast, only I seem unable to make it work on the system I have now And I cannot to back to my old pc, since it decided to do some force lightning or somesuch on the motherboard and fried the mother... away a few years back - that's why I got a new machine...

No, not really. NWN2 is d20 3e. KotOR is d20 Star Wars. I like the d20 Star Wars rules much better than I do d20 D&D, though I do think WEG Star Wars was better. Besides, KotOR is - as I see it - plot first and rules second. I can live with that. NWN was just senseless monster slashing with an incredibly FR-typical plot. You have to look at the setting too. I like some non-3e D&D, like Mystara (especially Mystara) or Planescape, but not some others. I distinctly dislike the Forgotten Realms setting. Of all the (A)D&D settings, I find that to be the worst. I do like the Star Wars setting, however, and both KotOR games have been interesting to me in spite of being d20-based (certainly not because of it!). I might change my stand on NWN2, but having tried and hated NWN1, I'll have to hear some really positive things on the points that I think makes for a good game before I change my mind.

Welcome. Lots of people seem to want somthing like, but I must say that I really don't care so much either way. If they want to include it, fine, but if not, I'm not going to miss it. And if programming it takes away from the rest of the game, then I'm against, since it's a low priority for me - a fluid game with a deep plot is much more important. Yes, but you can't blame Obsidian for that. It was Lucasarts that pushed the deadline heard, and so they should carry the blame for the sad state K2 ended up in. As a consequence I cannot see K2 as a true representation of what Obsidian is able to deliver. That they did so much in a year is quite a feat, so I'll wait until they publish other games that interest me (NWN2 is 3e and so not an option for me- yuck!) before I pass judgment on the company itself. Lucasarts didn't give Obsidian a choice in the matter, and since they are the publisher and license-holder, there really wan't anything Obsidian could do about it. Obsidian has also been rather quiet on the whole matter, which is somewhat understandable. On the one had, there are probably sore memories over being forced into this and getting the fans miffed, but on the other hand they can't voice anger at Lucasarts if they want to do K3. Quite a dilemma. However, we have heard people from Obsidian say that they were not responsible for this situation, and I think someone from here asked if they would do an expansion pack for K2 if Lucasarts allowed it, and apparently Obsidian said yes to that. If that's true - and I'm not sure - then it speaks volumes about Lucasarts that we haven't seem something like that. As a pc-owner, I feel particularly shafted, because the pc-version came out after the christmas-sale that K2 was pushed for, and we still got a cut-content pc-version and yet no downloadable expansion, apparently because that was impossible to do for the x-box version, and the pc-version was not permitted to have more content. But that's all speculation. If someone can confirm or deny this, please speak up. Well, I actually though Sion was interesting to fight exactly because it didn't rely on raw power alone. I'd agree that Nihilus is a disappointment. Nihilus should wipe the floor with the party in the initial fight, and only after he tries to drain the Exile should victory be possible, which does not mean easy. Nihilus was a push-over. Though he is greatly weaked by his attempt to drain the Exile, that's should be a reason for us to be able to defeat him, not for him to become a baby with a lightsaber Actually never played Jedi Outcast, since I never could get it to work right on my system. But yes, I would like to see something along those lines, and a lot of us here seem to like the idea of K3 showcasing the master/padawan relationship more than we have in the previous games. As for plot, the one thing I really don't want to see is the "chosen one"-device that we've seen in the previous two games. I don't want to discover some great, big secret about my past or that only my character has the power to do something specific for a third time. I also don't want to play yet another amnesic jedi, semi-amnesic or otherwise - it was damn frustrating having to play as the Exile while not knowing half his background. How am I supposed to put myself in his position, if I don't know his past and will be told about it only through vague clues by Kreia? I want my character in K3 to be just another young jedi at the wrong place at the wrong time. No special uber-powers and no background that makes me destined for something whether I want it or not.

The real quesiton is whether it's okay to question or criticise any sort of religion. Is it okay to criticise Christinity for the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades? Is it okay to say that it was wrong to not openly condemn Hilter's regime? Can we, as a society, overrule the word of the bible and accept abortion in the christian countries? Are we allowed to voice criticism of how the current pope has, in the past, given advice on how victims of sexual abuse by protestant priests and their families can be intimidated into silence thruogh threat of lawsuits? Since we have already done this for years if not decades in the west, you already have your answer. Anything else is saying that Islam should have preferential treatment, in case I would ask why.

And really useful when you go up against Nilathak (sp?) in the expansion. I really missed the necromancer's ability to do corpse explosions just so he couldn't do it against me when I played something else... Yeah. Except I always thought the golem should have been more of a sorceress thing...

Quite. I freely admit that my own sorceress couldn't have survived more than three seconds inside one of her own firewalls... But a paladin that spams the zeal + fanaticism skills is also pretty lethal, especially if you're also using life- and mana-stealing equipment. I really hadn't taken the hammer-thing much by the time I confronted Baal, so there was little choice but getting in there in melee while keeping a finger on my rejuvenation potions. I took blows, but with a bit of hit and run, Baal eventually went down... A lot less finesse than the sorceress, though I found dealing with Duriel is quite a pain with the sorceress - I was constantly running for my life! Not to mention the councilmembers... "

I want it just the other way - I want less visible equippable items. Lots of them look really silly when the characters wear them. I also think their boosts should observe what the stats they affect already are. A +2 Con item is great, but if your Con is already, say, 16, then it should add only +1, and if your Con is 18, then the item shouldn't have any effect at all. And I think all weapons should be holstered or put away when not actively used. That would also get rid of those ghastly clipping errors, when the Exile randomly moves his vibrosword through the chair as well as Atton's chest during a cutscene...

Well, it would be the player more than the character who sets the gender/alignment for the previous protagonists. I that causes less trouble than fixing these things according to some canon rulings that will put off a lot of people. Lots of people like to play Revan as DS and/or female, so setting him to LS male will alienate some people. Though I'll definitely set Revan to LS male, I still prefer this scenario. Exactly. And it's not that I want them to die, I just want them to end up in positions, where their fates are resolved. If either or both of them settle down in positions that they will stay in, then that's fine. Agreed, though I'd like to go to the outer regions about half-way through the game. My suggested planets are Coruscant, Alderaan, Sleheyron, Myrkr, then Khar Shian/Khar Delba, and finally Ziost before an ultimate confrontation over Coruscant. Agreed, though I would like them to switch a bit from the "my turn, your turn" concept and more to a "I take my first attack now, the you take two of yours, and then I have my second" according to who acted when in the initiative sequence. Such a system is lengthy to deal with in the PnP d20 system (which KotOR is based on), but it can work without trouble in a CRPG. Yes, though I don't see why there should be a limit at 4 instead of 3. It never made much sense that you could only take so many characters with you. There was no logic to it, it was just a rule arbitrarily imposed by the game. If they would at least give us a reason, even a very convenient and opportunistic one, it would be a lot easier to accept. For example, you could say that someone has to stay behind to watch Ebon Hawk so that it isn't stolen, then that's a good point for at least one crewmember being tied to the ship at all times. For example, there didn't seem to be much reason why Atton had to stay and fix the Hawk on Dxun - especially since I always had Bao-Dur in the crew at that point - but I was still fine with that. Yes, HK and T3 must definitely be in K3. Excellent first post btw. Welcome to the boards.

Hehe - "Exclamation: My parts are showing?!?" :D I can hear HK say it now...

I wouldn't call Qui Gon quite grey. He may not follow the code strictly (which, as Obi-Wan said, is why he is not on the council), but he still remains a member of the order. Jolee is a grey jedi. He follows neither the code, nor is he a member of the order itself. Instead he adopted a "think for yourself"-philosophy, though that didn't mean he discarded the code entirely - he just denied the parts he found to be too strict. And yet, if Revan decides to follow Bastila to the dark side, Jolee will stand firmly with Juhani to prevent it, even fighting to the death.

The plot must be solid, yes. I agree with that. I just don't agree that having Revan and the Exile in it would ruin the plot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think it would ruin the plot, im just saying it might have to work overtime to accomodate DS/LS Revan , female/male Revan. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think of Revan and the Exile more as story devices that drive the plot forward, so they wouldn't be obstacles that story needs to strain itself to accomodate - they would be elements that help it forward and expand the plot.

Bastila has years of experience by now. She was young in K1, but K2 is five years later and K3 likely a few years after that.

not so fast, don't forget Revan is from the unknown regions (he may, just may because it is just rumors Kreia speaks of, know more that anyone the magnitude of the sith treath) and the Star Forge was the key of Revan's triumph, a quick utter and cautios victory (till Malak of course, then back again). many dialogs reveal that Revan never intended to use the SF for long, what made you think he fell all of a sudden? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Revan is from Deralia. It's a remote system, but the fact that he can mention it to Bastila in K1 without Bastila raising an eyebrow certainly suggests that it is not in the unknown regions. It is likely in the outer rim close to the unknown regions, though. And if Revan's plan was to fight the true Sith, then why did he attack the republic? He started out to save the republic first against the Mandalorians and then against the true Sith, so in between he had to defeat the republic and bomb its worlds... Hold on, that doesn't add up! I might think that Revan did start out with good intentions, but he thought he could wear the mask of the dark lord without losing sight of his eventual goal and his soul. He was bitterly mistaken on both points. Once he accepted the dark side in his heart, it corrupted him and he was filled with ambition to rule the galaxy for himself. He might have started out planning to use the StarForge as a weapon against the true Sith, but that's not what happened. Instead he thought he should rule everything, and with the republic weaker than the true Sith, he decided to attack the republic first, then conquer the true Sith and rule them as well once he had conquered the republic and taken control of its resources. He may have started out wanting to save the republic, but we all know what the road to Hell is paved with... Or to make an analogy, he made the same mistake that Boromir did in "Lord of the Rings" - he thought he could use evil to defeat evil, and he couldn't, because evil twists you - instead of controlling the dark side, the dark side ended up controlling him.

You mean like taking an enemy prisoner, reprogramming his mind, and then using him against his own? " They wouldn't see as a weakness if it served their own purposes. Palpatine served as a loyal senator for years in order to slip into a position from which to manipulate events. Does that make him a weakling or a sly manipulator? On the contrary - the grey jedi have more limitations than both the regular jedi or the sith - that's the price they pay for not adhering to either philosophy. And I fail to see how they have greater knowledge than characters like Yoda or Palpatine just because they choose to stay fairly neutral on the jedi/sith conflict. Few characters indeed have more knowledge or wisdom than Yoda or a few select other jedi masters. Also there is no "grey side". There is the jedi side and the sith side - the grey are just somewhere on the jedi side close to the middle. The grey are no better off there than the other jedi. In fact, they're probably worse off since they have abandoned the very code that should guide them to stay in the light. Therefore they are in even greater peril from the dark side. That makes no sense at all. Some of the masters did refuse to acknowledge their failings, but most of them had died at that point, and some - like Zez-Kai Ell and Vash - were quite open toward accepting their failings. Also, pay attention to G0T0. I know we all hate him, but as he points out, the republic is doomed without the jedi. To wipe them out is there to destroy the republic.

The plot must be solid, yes. I agree with that. I just don't agree that having Revan and the Exile in it would ruin the plot.

I'd be all for that in a K4, but not in K3. K2 ended openly. We need resolution to that story, and not just in the sense of a few statements that tell us what became of Revan and the Exile during the opening crawl text. Those characters did not get closure. We need that, and we want to play it too.

Why? I mean, this is a full four thousand years before the movies, so anything that happens is going to be completely inconsequential by the time of the movies era. I would have speculated that the only thing they couldn't do is let the republic or the jedi order fall, but actually I believe there is mention in the movies that goes back only about a thousand years - didn't Palpatine say something about "this republic that has stood for a thousand years" or so, and Windu that the order had stood for hundreds of generations? If that is correctly remembered, they can even bring down the republic and the jedi order, so long as it's rebuilt again at some point. So about the only thing that cannot happen is the destruction of the worlds we know (Korriban, Tatooine, Onderon, Coruscant, etc.) True enough... I'm still grumpy that you basically save the world in Ultima III, and then who do they elect as king? The guy why asked you to do it, but who stayed at home in the castle himself, while you were out there battling demons... :angry: I know. I'm just saying that we already know what Revan's voice sounds like, not that he should be restricted to that. In fact, if that were the case, I'd rather he just shut up :D