Jediphile

I think you're underestimating just what sort of a programming nightmare a game like that would be to work on. There is a reason why multiplayer games are generic and spartan plotwise to the point of having almost no story, whereas the plots of even singleplayer games are frequently very fixed and linear. The reason is not that the programmers are lazy and don't want to give us what we want to play. It is simply that such a game would mean that there are large sections of their work that only a portion of the audience will ever see. With the costs of making computer games today, it is just not cost-effective, let alone feasible. This sort of thing was okay for Elite during the golden age of computer games in the 80s when it was just one or two people working on a game. But look at its sequel, Frontier, which was done exclusively by David Braben - it's a huge galaxy where you can go and do absolutely anything you want. But there is no plot. Because creating an open galaxy took all the programming efforts. This was okay to let one guy work on for a long time thirty or even twenty years ago. But today computer games are written by groups of 25+ people working for a year, and that makes any game a major investment. It may change again someday and become easier to do games. The machines could become so fast, that you don't have to do code. Graphics and sounds might become so easy to work with that anyone can do it, if they have the creativity for it. But it is not so in the real world today, and gaming companies that don't accept that won't stay in business for long. Of course. All RPGs are founded on the time-honoured and highly ethical principle of grave-robbery, after all :D Seriously, the real reason is the same as given in many a D&D (or other pnp-rpg book): If you can just buy the good stuff, then what's the point of questing for it?

i posted the whole thing earlier, what for the sake of subtlety would the word "imprisonment" have to do with anything but its own meaning? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But in that case we have a continuity problem. Nihilus cannot have been the being we see in K2 before the MSG is activated, because the destruction that it causes is what prompts the Exile to cut himself off from the force, and when he did so, that is where Nihilus "learned" his dark powers. Imprisonment means only that he was trapped in some way. How he was so is speculation. Since he used the Ravager to "escape imprisonment", it is clear that it is the Nihilus-being we're talking about, not who he used to be. And he cannot have been captured by the Mandalorians at that time, since they would all have been dead, killed by the MSG. My own take on is that (the later to be) Sion and Nihilus were on Malachor V when the MSG was activated. But I doubt Kreia was. Somehow I don't get the impression that she found the Trayus Academy until after the war. "escape Malachor V" would have been fine, but I don't think you can use the fact that the word used was "imprisonment" to infer that Nihilus was captured by someone. It would still be a supposition, not a fact, and it seems strange that any Mandalorians could hold a being as powerful as Nihilus prisoner in any event. And that actually is what it would then say, since the comment is about how he took control of the Ravager. Not many people (or rather none), including jedi, could do that, so it is not the proto-Nihilus we're talking about.

I disagree. Catering to the single player is what KotOR does best. It would be very difficult to write a compelling story/plot that appeals in a multiplayer game. For that, go and play Star Wars Galaxies.

Already played and finished Diablo 1 - and the Hellfire expansion - ages ago. And I love building characters. I just don't think the Diablo II system is that good. It's very fixed and very limited. And it's geared exclusively toward monster-slashing. No interaction, no dialogue, no role-playing. As I said, fun while it lasts, but not original in the slightest. It survives mostly on the polish with it's nice visuals and sound. Then again, that's just superficial quality and no depth.

In the same way that Destiny's child's songs are masterpieces of popular music and The Da Vinci Code is a masterpiece of english literature? Blizzard's ability to make games that sell millions of units is to be admired though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. These games are masterpieces because both games for their time revolutionized the character building process. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Revolution? I think I'll skip commenting on that (in the spirit of saying nothing, when you have nothing nice to say) and instead just speculate that you probably haven't seen many PnP RPG systems, let alone a host of cRPGs that could be mentioned... Monty Haul and Munchkinism.... Not exactly traits that I would praise a game for. Especially not when it's built on top of mindless hack 'n slash. Diablo II may have been fun at times, but it was woefully unoriginal and lacked any sort of replay value, at least for me, once all the movies had been seen. The one thing it had was the dark tone of the story and it's gothic elements. If the put those succesfully in an RPG, it'll really be a winner.

I still think that the one thing that really redeemed D2 was the secret level... Mooh! Mooh-mooh! :D

Yavin 4 was a bit of a letdown IMHO. Still, I did have what I considered the toughest fight in the game - those Trandoshans were no pushovers!

Dodge attacks, yes. At least that's the idea, though it makes little sense (I'll get back to that in a second) DR, however, no! There is no Damage Resistance in D&D rules - none. Let me make an example of it. The first time I played Fallout (1), I found a metal armor and put it. This lowered my AC (the chance of being hit in combat), so I removed it again. Why would I willingly lower my AC? I had played D&D for so long, than I didn't immediately stop to think of the logic of it. You wear heavy armor to prevent sharp objects like pointed weapons or bullets from penetrating your armor and then your body. That's what Damage Resistance does. But heavy armor is *heavy*. And so it naturally follows, that it restricts your movements and agility and therefore makes you easier to hit. The point is that you take less damage even if you're hit, because the armor absords most of the attack. It was then that I realised how horribly corrupted I had become by AD&D "logic". Thankfully I saw the light and has now been redeemed

Btw, totally off-topic note to Lancer. It seems Mystara has been given a temporary breath of life, and so an upcoming issue of dragon will have an article of "Voyage of the Princess Ark" (if you remember that one) by none other than Bruce Heard. Check it out - no joke!

I also disagree with this statement. I played PnP long before I played any cRPG and my first encounter with the concept of AC was from AD&D. And I never thought decreasing AC made much sense. Then again, I think AC the way it works in either D&D edition is stupid anyways. But that is beside the point. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, that's the point exactly. AC is *stupid*. It makes no sense at all, and attempting to explain it logically is far more difficult than it is whether it should be counted up or down. Why start at 10 anyway? That's silly too, isn't it? I mean, a high AC is good (in 3e), right? So why does my character get a full 10 points to begin with?

Nah, the KotOR games are already flowing over with gear that is way too powerful. A +1 bonus is nice a low levels without tipping game balance, but at high levels it really can be abused awfully. I think in K3, they should include more items that give a bonus, but which are fixed to how good the stat it modifies already is - if the stat is already fairly high, then the item shouldn't do anything at all.

On VERY rare occassions stickies are made for a reason <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :"> Well, I really didn't care about the stats anyway... "

Yes. Once the Exile and whoever he took with him are done on Onderon, the game puts you back outside the Ebon Hawk, where there is a member of the group you sent to Freedon Nadd's tomb waiting for you (and I think it's always whoever you chose to lead that group). As you approach, the character talks and mentions he or she learned something from the experience, but that he or she will talk about it later... only they never do.

I think I read somewhere that while Malak's armor is in the game, it is only there insofar that it's stats and description can be found in the game files, but not so that you can actually find it. Even if you could, it is a highly powerful item, which would require a random drop at the high end of the power scale... And IIRC it's not even that hot even if you manage to get your hands on it. Can't remember the stats, though.

The line you refer is this: "The Ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V.The Sith fleet attacking Telos appears to be composed of many damaged warships... the wreckage of a great battle." No offense, but I think that to just say "he used it to escape imprisonment" is to take it out of context. It certainly seems quite clear to me that Nihilus was simply stranded on Malachor V until he took control of the Ravager and then used it to leave the planet. Even if you disagree, it is at least a valid interpretation, isn't it? They were "born" on Malachor V in the sense that that is where they became Nihilus and Sion. Before that they had been something else. And yes, I agree that they were probably both jedi, who were horrible corrupted by the dark side and the powers of Malachor V. As for "died and reborn", I think Nihilus (or rather, who he used to be) did indeed die or nearly so on Malachor V. I also think that he was a close friend or similar to the Exile, and that this is probably how he "learned" his powers from the Exile. But that's another discussion.

Exactly what I want to see as well. Can't remember if I voted for "J" already, but if not, I will now. I'd rather explore Sith space in at least half the game (we need to see a little of republic, definitely Coruscant, and I'd like Alderaan, Sleheyron and Myrkr as well). I'd like to see Sith worlds like Khar Delba/Khar Shian (where Naga Sadow had his secret base) and naturally Ziost (the throneworld of the Sith, where the dark lord rules from).

Well, as Kreia points out, Malachor V is an unusual place with special connections to the dark side of the force. Kreia: "There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death. Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side. Did you never wonder how Revan corrupted so many of the Jedi, so much of the Republic, so quickly?The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion.Culminating a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from..." It seems to me that it is the corruption Revan subjected the jedi to on Malachor V and the strange powers of the place gave birth to Nihilus. It is also clear that this has direct ties to the Exile. Note what the masters say, when you return to the enclave on Dantooine: "The last Jedi conclave was on Katarr, a Miraluka colony. And all of Katarr was destroyed, all of the Jedi killed...Including Master Zhar... Master Vandar... A Jedi doesn't care if he dies. Everyone does, but when we fight, when we sacrifice ourselves, it is for others, for the greater good. But our presence must not endanger others. And as long as we were visible targets, we were a threat to everything around us.There was a gathering of Jedi on the planet - when we realized that something was attacking us, we resolved to meet secretly to attempt to find this threat.Then... Katarr was no more.When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly. This echo travels in the places where death has walked, where planets have died. Massacres fuel its power, the death of life fuels it." Before you dismiss this as just a consequence of both the Exile and Nihilus being on Malachor V at the time, note the following, which is also said by the masters during the enclave meeting: "The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you."

True enough. I did have fun playing Diablo II... at least until I finished it and had watched all the videos. Then my interest took quite a nose-dive... Diablo II is completely dependent on having friends online to play with. Running around in single-player is not so much fun, especially since it is specifically engineered towards increasing your chances of finding loot that only the other classes but your own can use. I do understand the principle, but I always felt that was a bit silly. I mean, the chances of a really cool item being usable to your specific class was only 20% or lower to begin with, so what's the point?

So, if a person is a force adept yet chooses not to mass murder everything in sight, that automaticly makes them a "Grey" jedi? Sounds pretty stupid. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, I must have given the wrong impression. Sorry about that. A force adept is a force adept. He is neither jedi nor sith, but neither does he have any of their specific powers or more potent connection to the force. This was true of Chodo Habat. Jolee, however, is a grey jedi, because he doesn't follow the jedi code strictly. But he's still a jedi, not a force adept or a sith. And both jedi, sith and force adepts are all force sensitives, since they have connection to the force.

I have checked the entire dialog.tlk file searching for both "prisoner" and "Nihilus". Not once did this lead me to information that would support that Nihilus was ever a prisoner of the Mandalorians. Wherever that piece of information came from, it is not in the game.

Nothing. This dialoge is never accessable unless you ask her immediatly after she joins your party (meaning before you head to your first planet after the Academy) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, it's a glitch same as asking Visas about force sight (and actually several other in the game...) Hopefully the Restoration Project will fix that too.

You should also consider just once doing an "adventure" where nothing is wrong. Everything is as it should be, though people naturally have their secrets and misgivings as they always do, which will make the PCs suspicious, as they think this is something they need to investigate. For that sort of thing you need detailed descriptions of the NPCs so that you know their secrets and what they will say to avoid revealing them. Just be aware that it only works once - you can never do it again after that!

that would be cool <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with this also. Though, the PC should be a force user (for story signifiance and such). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> force sensitive <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can't people use the force without having to be a Jedi or Sith? (Knows nothing about SW) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, they can. They're called Force Adepts. Chodo Habat, the leader of the Ithorians on Citadel station at Telos, was one in K2. "Grey" jedi are still jedi, though, not Sith nor force adepts. They're just jedi who don't adhere strictly to the conventions of the jedi code.

I misread then. Mea culpa. So what would you suggest? I would prefer beginning as a young jedi (level 1) with next to no force powers and no lightsaber. Once you advance to level 2, you would build your own lightsaber and then go from there. Basically I'd have an introduction that runs a little similar to Revan arriving on Dantooine in K1, only you would actually have a few encounters and maybe a fight or two.

to all your ideas. I agree, starting as a full fledged Jedi is a bad idea. However, becoming a Jedi before the first quarter of the game is essential. Thats why a longer game is a must. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree. If you find that beginning as a jedi is bad due to K2, then I think you might be forgetting just how much people tend to dislike the entire Peragus section. That's because it was badly designed both playwise and plotwise, totally unlike K1, where you had to interact with people on Taris rather than fight endless hordes of droids. I see no reason why the game can't be just as exciting as even if you begin as a jedi. Besides, we know we'll walk the path of the jedi - Knights of the Old Republic is about jedi first and foremost, which is as it should be IMHO.