Volourn

"How is it that NWNs combat system works again? It has some kind of pseudo round/phase thingie doesnt it?" It has rounds. Works just like in pnp except there is no waiting in between turns. You simply go when it is turn. Bets way to test this is to cast two spells right aftet the other. After your first spell is cast, your character will wait a few seconds before it starts casting the second. "beofre even reading the last three pages of this post, I'll make it clear I'm talking about 3.5 rules. I no longer own a 3.0 PHB. Everything I'm posting is in the 3.5 PHB" Then how can you compare how NWN familars are overpwoered compared to pnp ones? Afterall, that's how this disucssion got started. At least I wa shonest, and stated quite clearly that I was referring to 3.0. That said, accoridng to Deraldin's facts, even in 3.5, a familiar can end up having more than 100hp. That said, it seems that in 3.5 an Animal Companion is very uber munchkinized. "What I like to know is can we double up on metamagic feats. Empowered Maximized Fireball is a must. I must I tell you!" That would be cool. :cool:

"And while the Broncos have a great home record, their playoff record isn't much to be proud of." Really? Last i checked, their record is 1-0 in the play-offs. And, they defeated the Defending Cahmpions. The Steelers, on the other hand, beta a team known to fial in the play-offs... Hmm.. I wodner which feat is more impressive espicially considering the Broncos won quite handily. I hope the Steelers win though. But, I wouldn't count on it. And, yeah, the Steelers deserved to win that game. They simply outplayed Indy though it was close (one horrible call, and a great forced fumble made it possible for Indy to tie/win).

"Off topic, but holy crap do you play NWN a lot Volo." Yes, yes I do. "A red dragon is not weak. It would seem that the game is flawed ithen if a familiar can survive." Not really. As I have been trying to point out through this entire thread, familiars are no longer the weaklings of 2E. In 3E (and 3.5) they ar every useful at all levels. That said, breath weapon or no, an ancient red dragon would completely oblireate a familiar. Or animal companion. Or fighter. Or cleric. Or mage. or rogue. You get the idea. LOL Just because the familiar cna survive one aspect of the red dragon offensive repetoire doesn't mean it actually has a chance. P.S. NWN RULES ALL! NWN2 SHOULD RULE ALL X2!!! edit: Euix, no, it's a Base Class in 3.5 supposedly.

No.

"That is what evasion is for. They get it for free you know." In fact, they have improved invasion. I wish people knew what they were discussing before discussing it. Though, in NWN, most familiars don't have (improved) invasion yet people have the gall to claim that they're soooo overpowered comapred to their pnp counterparts. Heck, a familiar can survive a red dragon breathing on them. R00fles!

"Well, with it the baddies actually goes on patrol in the area, opens doors, goes where there are sounds being heard, that sort of thing. Stuff that didn't happen in the baseline NWN." Thats' true. Very awesome stuff; but that's a good amount of work on mr. K's part. Dopn't expect the AI in base NWN2 to be THAT advanced from the start. LOL Alanshu for the vcitory!

In fact, it does...

"I'm sorry familiars are gimped in NWN2, but as a Warlock I won't need one..." I'm about to make an oath to kill all warlocks I see in MP in the faint hope a little piece of you dies with them. R00fles! :D

"To me (and i'm not the only one), less description allows for more roleplay because I can make up any sentence that I want. I choose, in my head how my character will react." R9ole-playing is menaingless if the npcs don't react at all to your imaginative role-playing. If that's the case, you might as well just make believe in your head and not bother with computer games (or pnp for that matter). Role-playing without feeback is nothing more than a day dream. Role-play your character's anger it won't matter because Mr. Bob simply won't react. It's all about action and reaction. (and, no, not the combat kind of 'action').

"They are trying to bring the ruleset closer to the PnP version of not literally then at least the spirit of the rules. The whole bioware familar mess is not only against the rules but also the spirit as well." No. Familairs are very much capable of combat. Why do you think they have a base attack bonus? From what we've ehard, NWN1 familiars are much closer to 3.0 pnp rules than NWN2 familiars are to 3.5 pnp rules. Not to mention, they cna deliver touch attacks. If they were so weak in melee do you think they'd be able to do that? LOL At least what we've heard thus far. R00fles! P.S. If this were true, you also be allowed to choose your alignment when you create your character not be forced to be a fausx pas TN (notwithstanding class restricted alignments). P.S. Before someone accuses me of bashing NWN2, they should see my first post of this thread to nullify that nonsense. "

Is that 3.5, Deraldin cause it's not in 3.0 PHB.? If so, wow, they sure boosted Animal Companions big time. P.S. Before someone starts whining about NWN2 being 3.5, I'd like to point out that the basic convo started here when some suggested that NWN familiars were wayyyyyyyyyyy more powerful than their pnp counterparts. It seems as per Deraldin's list there that in 3.5 that Animal Comapnions got a HUGE powergaming boost. So yeah, it seems that in 3.5, AC are over powering munchkins. P.S.S. It alsos eems Derladin confirms that even in 3.5, the familiar gets half the hit points of the Master. Thanks for the 3.5 info; though.

Yes, yes it is. But, then again, people who post on internet sites debating and discussing video games based on those shouldn't really be bragging about their so called 'non geekiness'. R00fles!

We're discussing D&D 3.0 as Ellester has saw fit not to even say what version he is talking about. Afterall, we're comapring a bunch of things - NWN1 to NWN2 to 3.0 to (possibly) 3.5 LMAO

"As Hades pointed out only your sorcerer levels apply, so your bigger geek body parts has some flaws. And yes I meant hp

"So you use standard rules?" Those aren't standard rules. Standard rules are half the hit points of the Master. "In my games I ruled that only the class in which the familiar is gained counts for the familiar's ability. Such as your barbarian sorcerer would only have a familiar of 2 nd level in terms of abilities and hit points." Fair enough. However, that doesn't help the disucssion. Afterall, if optional rules mattered, I could ahve simply pointed out dragons are used as familiars in my pnp game and they get full Ancient Dragon abilities. LOL That would be wrong; though.

"Stop lying, a 100 hp familiar at level 20? What are you smoking? A familiar HD is half the master." *sigh* It's easy to call me a liar. It's MUCH harder to back it up with facts. Notwithstanding possible changes in 3.5, a familiar's HD is the SAME as its master. It's HIT POINTS are half of its master. Heck, one can powergame, and have a sorceror 2/barb 18 with con 20. Give the character 3hps of each sorc level, and 9 of each barb level the familiar would have 139hp (hopefully I got my math right but the premise stands) along with a +19bab. Now, that I have THROUGHLY E M B A R R A S E D you with my Bigger Geek Body Part tm; just surrender before you embarass yourself further. At least make me have to TRY to accomplish that feat. The biggest weakness a pnp familiar has comaprd to its NWN counterpart is its damage capaility physically low. Heck, cast enlarge and BOOM its damage will be just fine. "Hardly animals that would help in combat if you are a level 20 Wizard fighting a Balor." They'd be able to help just fine if proeprly buffed ... just like NWN familiar. Afterall, not to many NWN familiars are gonna be able to go toe to toe with a balor either. "My Druid

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't." Welcome to the life of a game developer. "Holy **** what you just said was completely irrelevant!" Look closer, and the answers you seek shall be found within.

Broncos-Steelers are a toss up; but I'll gvie slight edge to Denver for being home. Seattle over Carolina. Unlike my Giants who had awobbbly QB, and a Bears team that is vastly overrated; Seattle is a complete team. Carolina won't be so dominate.

"You know that was almost a year ago." I wa sborn 29 years ago. Nature regretted it then, nature regrets it now, nature will regret it in the future. The truth is the truth no matter the time.

Screw 'em... literally. I love all levels, and I was an epic unbeleiveer; but it's very hard tod eny the fun of playing epic level characters in NWN. Can't comapre to Epic 3E in pnp; but in NWN if the battles are balanced FAIRLY (fairly is the key; not enemies thata re immune to every special ability or spell in the book) it rocks. That's why I mentioned that Action PW in the 'NWN Module' thread. Good stuff.

The Bear D was overrated. It's good; but not any better than the other top D in the league. Certainly not as dominating as many though. Though; the D is why they did so well cause their offense was absolutely horrible even though they did score 21 points in the play-offs.

"The Devastating Critical or whatever which is "save or die" was too damned funny, especially with my greater cleave." That's an overpwoered feat. Funnily sad part is that supposedly its verbatim how it is in pnp. LOL I wouldn't know since I haven't seen the epic pnp rules; bt still that's one feat that shouldn't have been added. Overwhelming Critical is also powerful but still balanced consideirng its epicness. But, Devastating Critical is way too much.

"Weren't they invisible as well? And damned near impossible to hit, with mad thieving skills?" Nah. Not too hard to hit. But, II gives all attackers 50% chance to miss unless they have blind fighting which gets them one reroll. "One character build I did was a Druid/Wizard. Had two panthers." Yeah; but not as strong a s a single one. Better yet, try Druid/Wizard/Sorceror (or Ranger as 3rd class). Familairs, and Animal Companions Galore! I haven't tried it myself; but that would be hilarious! I like F/C, or Wizards. F/R/WM is also nice.

"I don't know if familiars would become "utterly useless" just because they can no longer attack." I admit to using semi hyperbole. They *might* be useful yet. We shall see. But, whatever their uses in NWN2; it will be FARTHER away from their pnp counterparts; not CLOSER if they are made to not take part in combat.

So, they wouldn't have to hear complain how 'overpowered' NWN2 familiars might be. LOL Seriously, ask them. I think people are still stuck on the 2E version of famliars. 3E's (and 3.5's) familiars ar emuch more capable. There's a reaosn why they can deliver touch attack spells. Did you think they'd have the ability if they werne't melee capable? R00fles!