Volourn

BIO is one of the most creative developers ever in gaming business.

"Gygax himself created the drow, Ed Greenwood fleshed them out. Salvatore only created Drizzt, the first 'good' Drow." He did more than that. Before Salvatore, drow were really nothing than another monster for players to kill. Even taking award the modern take on racism, drow society and the way the houses do business was pretty darn good. Let's also not forget that Salvatore's not so subtle infleunce can be found in games such as IWD. In many ways, Salvatore can be given credit for the popularity of drow as well as the backlash to said popularity where Drizzt is seen as unoriginal when he's anything but.

learn by doing systems ar ejust asking for trouble sicne they cna be abused much, much easier than level based systems. In could live with a learn by doing system if there were limits to it. ie.. if you arejumping up and down in one sport for minutes the game shouldn't count it. Same with swimming in shallow areas coutning as learning. I'm a pretty good swimmer in real life, and I know for a fact that my swimming doesn't improve if I'm folling around in shallow water. It just doesn't. Ideally, I like a class based system that allows you to select a limited amount of abilities from other classes. An example would be selecting a fighter class who can be potentially taught how to cass some basic mage spells by a amge who sees potential in him. Or a warrior who is religious given some 'clerical' powers (depending how the DS world deals with gods, wizard vs cleric magic). Or a rogue who comes from a barbian tribe should be stronger and better in battle than your typical city rogue....

"The Dungeon Siege games are all about combat." *shrug* "This is, arguably, Obsidian's worst area of development." Nah. " NWN2 (well, at least that one expansion), KOTOR2, and AP all have engrossing storylines, great characters, and a myriad of choices, but are horribly buggy, poorly balanced" NWN2: yes KOTOR2: Had a good toi great story., AP: Wa sjust plainc rap alla round. NWN2's combat was very, very good. Awesomesauce. KOTOR2 or AP weren'tm that buggy. As for why they are doing this? Why not? While I disliked DS series, DS3 has potential to be good unlike AP. DS3 could be a fun game. And, it being an action ropg doesn't rule out it having a good story. See JE, ME series, and BL. Besdies, it's story cna't be worse than AP. DS3 will hoepfully be a nice rebound for Obsidian and get them back oin track to making fun, interetsing games like NWN2.

They should borrow from TW. Now, that's an awesome equipment system.

Except, bugs and all, BL is a pretty darn good game. It has some of the ebst character ever, great overall writing, a solid story with some depth, etc., etc. Ap, while less buggy, is just plain crap.

"The other is written by someone who actually gets paid to do that and is presented with good voice acting that actually will bring those characters and story "alive" instead of just reading some wall of text etc. etc." Yeah, you got me. AP's writing, story,m and characters all get better magically at the 6 hour mark. My bad. If I had only stuck through the crap parts for just another hour, I would com,pletely love the game and believe it's the best ever - even better than PST, FO, or MOTB. LMAO

"And for what it's worth, I consider both games as RPGs. Dunno why, but 15 years of playing wRPGs is telling me that both can be classified in the genre." Totally agree. People try to pegion hole RPgs into their ideal defintion; but says a lot when, in reality, different games like POR, PST, and Morrowind (which i loathe) can all be considred RPGs. People need to remember that RPG doesn't enccessarily mean good. There are good RPGs (FO), and bad RPGs (TOEE).

Bettman is a punk.

"Heh, you're right. It should have been... "Here, blast a T-1000 terminator for no good reason, and that's about all the plot you get for the entire game"... Then the story would have been LEGENDARY" Never claimed ME2's story was deep or complex. It's absically collect allies and go after the big bads. Both games' story are not deep. however, ME2 has fun combat, enteresting characters, good writing, and other things that make the fact the story isn't super deep not as uimportant. Just like PST's story is so good that it doesn't matter AS MUCH that the combat is subpar. "He didn't even finish Saudi before deciding the story sucked, so he actually hasn't had the opportunity to see any one of the dozen or so possible endings (each of which is dependent upon other decisions made in the game). " I played enough of the game, and read enough spoilers to know playingt he game further won't make the story any deeper than it is, the characters any more interetsing, or the C&C any more impressive than it is. Someone who played the game twice posted a bunch of spoilers that AP fanboys' celebreted C&C is a myth. Why in the bejeebers should I finish a crappy game when I instead go play the awesome MOTB again. Now, that's a real Obsidian RPG to be proud of.

" This is a story-driven RPG for people that like story-driven RPGs. " That's awesome. I love story RPGs. MTOb and PST are just two to come to mind, and sorry dude AP isn't even in the same disucssion. It's not even story focused, and mostd efinitely not at the level of 'real' story focused games. AP is just a horrible. I just AP as a RPG, and it's a poor one. Plain, and simple. And, yes, you can comapre ME2 and AP. Just as you can compare IWD and PST or FO and BL. Or BG and BG2. Or whatever. This idea you need to finish a game before being able to 'judge' it is silly. It's damn if you do, damn if you don't. If you don't finish a game then you cna't judge it; but if you fionish a game you likely liked it. Double edge sword. AP is a poor RPG. The sad fact is that teh combat is the ebst part of the game as the story is atrocious, the C&C is overrated, and the characters are garbage. they don't match up to Obsidian's prior games. And, no matter how you try to make stuff it won't change it. How in the bejebbers is AP's story deep and complex? It isn't.

He's been accused of hititng her. His ex wife of decades disputes that theory. The dentist says that the damage to her teeth/face didn't fit how it look if she actually got punched (though he's backtracked on it a bit since he got bashed by her lawyers). Experts have claimed that the tape has been at least aprtially faked. That said, Gibson has proven to have quite a temper in the past so it's not out of the realm of possibility he has the potential to get violent. So who knows what's really up. "the real victim is the child." LAWYERS: Being Paid Mega Bucks To Tell Clients The Obvious Forever.

"Volourn the master critic who didn't even finish the initial hub." Yeah, I guess the better option would be like those who finished ME2 yet hated everything about it. That would be the logical thing to do. Put in 20-30 hours of work just to say I finished it. I play games to have fun. I did not have fun with AP therefore I stopped. I have fun MOTB therefore I finished it. I had fun with KOTOR2 and SOU despite neither of them being great games; but they were fun. I played enough of AP, and read enough sdpoilers of the later parts of the game to make a solid, logical statement.I did not finish Oblivion, or FO3 yet I would not hesitate to state they were crappy games. btw, I also did not even bother to try out a barbie game to figure out I would not like it, and that's it a bad game. But, yeah, one needs to finish a game they hate to prove they hate it 'legitly'. That doesn't make sense.

"ME2 is a game for everyone but me. Poor story, porr character, a simple and uninnovative gameplay and boring fights." Wow. All that, and you still finished the game. That's impressive. I also like you insult everybody who likes a game you don't. btw, You did just describe AP. "I'm not sure I'm the one that is the "fanboy" here." Your above statement proves your fanboyism. Basically, you have made a 'factual' claim that everybody who prefers ME2 over Ap (ie. disagrees with you) are moronic tools who like a game despite it being 'objectuively' worse. Yup, putting others down to make yourself feel better about your choice of favored game is definitely a sign of fanboyism. Anyways, let's have fun: Poor story: AP's is a bad rip off of basically every season of 24. Poor characters: L0L Thorton, and company ar ejokes. Not one of them are memorable. Uninnovative Gameplay: Describes Ap to a tee. It steals ideas from better games and does them 10x times worse. Nothing original about AP at all. Boring Fights; AP has zero inetresting fights. Too bad too as Obsidian is capable of awesomely fun games like MOTB. AP bombed for a reason. It's just not a very good game.

"Sex on a drugged, nearly-unconscious person of any age is against the law... at least it is in this country." Fixed.

I knmew they were the bad the momemnt the game mentions to them. It's obvious from the get go they were up to no good. Even the very doc update about them pretty much tells you that.

"ME2 had the worst C&C I've seen in a modern RPG, bro." I have brothers, and you good sir (or ma'am) are not one of them. Why are you insulting my family? And, you gotta be kididng about ME2 having the 'worst C&C in modern RPG' that you've seen. That could only be true if you did not play NWN1, NWN2, ES series, FO3, SOZ, and a host of others. L0LZ ME2's end game ALONE has more legit C&C than the vast majority of rpgs - modern or otherwise. action rpg or otherwise.

"Really, so you're going to get the Valeria Plame references, the allusions to Haliburton/KBR, and the historical tie-in to Operation Northwoods without knowing who/what any of those things are? Without looking, can you tell me what the Military Industrial Complex is?" the shades of Haliburtin in the game is just evidence of how shallow, empty, and souless AP really is. It's mimicing the usual thing you here in politics about how big bad comapnies are evil. That's the problem with AP - even with all the political innuendo it is as shallow as a puddle that everything is simplified. Government is evil. Big companies are evil. No depth. No room to actually think. Just plain telling you what you should feel. Etc., etc. P.S. I don't know full details about the military industrial complex but I do believe its the theory that the military is what pushes industry forward . ie the military finances a lot of the big research products for weapons and the like and that often leads to other dsicoveries being found. I may be off based. Who knows. Either way, like I sadi above, not getting the connection between stuff in the game and the real world is irreleavnmt because even when you do (see haliburtin) it's just plain fluff with no real thought put into it. No deeper than say the connection between the FR's Maztica Trilogy, and the discovery of thhe Amerikas in the real world.

"With that said, it seems to me that anyone that doesn't follow politics is going to miss much of the story." False.

"AP is the most advanced and wonderful choice driven game to date." You need to play the FOs, PST, ARC, HOTU, JE, ME2, MOTB, and DA amongst other games before claiming that. AP's C&C is lacklustre at worse, and passable at best.

"He's plainly not sane." Being abusive, and a bigot is not proof of insanity. It's proof of being a scumbag.

Well.. if the game was more fun and exciting, maybe I would have. 5 or so hours was enough to drive me bananies. Believe me, i tried to. It's why I didn't rush to share my opinion on the game right away. But, I knwo, every game gets better according to the fans of it the momemebnt one quits it. I played 5 hours so i'm sure I'd have started enjoying it if I just stuck with it for 6 hours.

"I love the automatic blame-the-victim, Mel-was-framed mentality here. " Huh? What thread were you reading? People were anti Mel when thisn thread started because we all took the accusations at face value. Sadly, we all forget, that there are unfortunately, women who do get abused (as well as men so let's not be sexist like some people) there are also people who have no problem making up lies to hurt others and damage their reputations. "Look, the man is worth a half-billion dollars, and can buy off anyone on the planet." Nonsense. "Without proof of Mel's treatment of her, including the fact that while she was holding their child he punched her hard enough to break two teeth, no one would ever believe her over him. Taping his tirades was the only way to get enough proof to have a chance to retain at least joint custody of her child. Otherwise, he would simply pick up the phone, call one of his contacts and she'd never see her baby again." Except, even her own dentists has his doubts that she was actually punched. And, there's dispute that the tape recording is legit. "So let's just wait for the real facts to emerge before we label Mel a misunderstood hero, and the mother of his child a gold-digging whore (or some-such), mmkay? I mean, she might very well be, but evidence to that effect rather than wishful speculation would be nice." Eh. You should a take your won advice since you seem to have made up your mind that he's guilty and even have an excuse ready even if he's found innocent - he just bought everyone off. In essence, Gibson cannot win with you. No matter what happens, you will label him an abusive piece of crap. It should, btw, that his ex wife of a billion years, flatb out stats that he was never abusive towards her or their children. What does she get out of lying for him? *shrug* Hey, I was one of those who believed things at face value and labeled Gibson guilty from the start...

"Was expecting that, thanks :D" Yeah, well, you walked into it. Heh. "Oh come on, everyone should know by now that Volourn is just a troll. Don't waste your time." Having an opinion isn't trolling. Continuing bashing someone eprsonally is. It's also flaming. "Of course, I don't say AP is the best game ever (like ME2 fan say so often), just that despite its flaws it delivers a better game experience to me than ME2. People may agree or not with this, but if you think that AP deserves the 70% of reviews, then ME2 is overrated and shouldn't be above 80%. On the other hand, you could consider AP underrated and having more than 80% and having ME2 at more than 90%." Nah. AP doesn't deserve 70% for reviews. It deserves lower. And, ME2 may not be the best RPG ever, but it's worthy of high scores. Though, technically they're both Action RPGs. "I feel a bit disgusted to hear that ME2 is the rpg of the year for some group of people." Except, it is. Action RPG or not, it is the best rpg of the year. Of coruse, it's only real competition so far is an expansion (DAA) and a SOZZY game like AP with a few alsorans thrown in. Not hard to be the 'best' in that group. "AP was deeper and more complex" No, it wasn't. There was nothing deep or complex about AP. It plays out like anys eason of 24. Same 'ol same 'ol. Not saying ME2 is the height of depth or complexity (after, ME2 is a dumbed down version of ME1); but AP is as shallow as a fly. P.S. I do agree that AP was less buggy than DAO but that's not surprising because DA is a, releatively spekaing, deep and complex game in comparison.

*shrug* Bugs aren't the reason why AP failed. "My bitch slap hand is trembling right now..." Threatening violence over video games. That's the internet in the nutshell. OMGZ Someone doesn't agree with me about soemthing... I MUST HURT HIM HORRIBLY!