Volourn

"I've wondered for some time whether Flemeth takes over Morrigan by the end of the game regardless of your actions, to be honest." I hoep not. "having played the game multiple times, we wonders why a developer would want a player to attempt redcliff first." Because, along with the mage tower, it's by far one of the two easiest areas of the allie quests. L0L Zombies L0L L0L Doggies LOL As for the tower-redcliff quest connection, you only get the option to get the mages' help if you don't wipe them out out during that quest so if you are anti magi you are out lof luck in regards to that quest. C&C, punks, C&C.

"Yes. Isn't this true for most games anyway?" No.

Yeah, so the writing magically gets better the moment I quit the game. R00fles! P.S. Are you admitting the writing in the early game sucks?

"Volly, I don't want to be rude, but look outside the window. WRPG's developers are far from the only developers in the industry. I won't say more, because quite frankly, it would start another ****storm debate." I haven't forgotten non Western rpg developers. In fact, some of my fave devs are from non westernrpghs devs. Nice try, though. I wa sjust sticking with rpgs since this is a rpg based developer forum. And, lying is rude. You meant to be rude. This still doesn't change the fact that BIO is one of the most creative game developers in the industry no matte the genre no matter the country.

How is exaggertaing? There are very developers who can be argued to be as creative or mroe creative than BIO. And, please don't claim Obsidian with their game log of NWN2, KOTOR2, DS3, ME3:AP, Aliens: Canceled Before Eaten, or FO3.5:LV. Or Troika with their popular D7D module, their vampire game 'sequel', and Arcanum (the only with real creativty with it). BIO went from making medical software to making video games. That says everything I need to know.

This should have been a quick thread. The answer is Obsidian.

BIO is one of the most creative developers ever in gaming business.

"Gygax himself created the drow, Ed Greenwood fleshed them out. Salvatore only created Drizzt, the first 'good' Drow." He did more than that. Before Salvatore, drow were really nothing than another monster for players to kill. Even taking award the modern take on racism, drow society and the way the houses do business was pretty darn good. Let's also not forget that Salvatore's not so subtle infleunce can be found in games such as IWD. In many ways, Salvatore can be given credit for the popularity of drow as well as the backlash to said popularity where Drizzt is seen as unoriginal when he's anything but.

learn by doing systems ar ejust asking for trouble sicne they cna be abused much, much easier than level based systems. In could live with a learn by doing system if there were limits to it. ie.. if you arejumping up and down in one sport for minutes the game shouldn't count it. Same with swimming in shallow areas coutning as learning. I'm a pretty good swimmer in real life, and I know for a fact that my swimming doesn't improve if I'm folling around in shallow water. It just doesn't. Ideally, I like a class based system that allows you to select a limited amount of abilities from other classes. An example would be selecting a fighter class who can be potentially taught how to cass some basic mage spells by a amge who sees potential in him. Or a warrior who is religious given some 'clerical' powers (depending how the DS world deals with gods, wizard vs cleric magic). Or a rogue who comes from a barbian tribe should be stronger and better in battle than your typical city rogue....

"The Dungeon Siege games are all about combat." *shrug* "This is, arguably, Obsidian's worst area of development." Nah. " NWN2 (well, at least that one expansion), KOTOR2, and AP all have engrossing storylines, great characters, and a myriad of choices, but are horribly buggy, poorly balanced" NWN2: yes KOTOR2: Had a good toi great story., AP: Wa sjust plainc rap alla round. NWN2's combat was very, very good. Awesomesauce. KOTOR2 or AP weren'tm that buggy. As for why they are doing this? Why not? While I disliked DS series, DS3 has potential to be good unlike AP. DS3 could be a fun game. And, it being an action ropg doesn't rule out it having a good story. See JE, ME series, and BL. Besdies, it's story cna't be worse than AP. DS3 will hoepfully be a nice rebound for Obsidian and get them back oin track to making fun, interetsing games like NWN2.

They should borrow from TW. Now, that's an awesome equipment system.

Except, bugs and all, BL is a pretty darn good game. It has some of the ebst character ever, great overall writing, a solid story with some depth, etc., etc. Ap, while less buggy, is just plain crap.

"The other is written by someone who actually gets paid to do that and is presented with good voice acting that actually will bring those characters and story "alive" instead of just reading some wall of text etc. etc." Yeah, you got me. AP's writing, story,m and characters all get better magically at the 6 hour mark. My bad. If I had only stuck through the crap parts for just another hour, I would com,pletely love the game and believe it's the best ever - even better than PST, FO, or MOTB. LMAO

"And for what it's worth, I consider both games as RPGs. Dunno why, but 15 years of playing wRPGs is telling me that both can be classified in the genre." Totally agree. People try to pegion hole RPgs into their ideal defintion; but says a lot when, in reality, different games like POR, PST, and Morrowind (which i loathe) can all be considred RPGs. People need to remember that RPG doesn't enccessarily mean good. There are good RPGs (FO), and bad RPGs (TOEE).

Bettman is a punk.

"Heh, you're right. It should have been... "Here, blast a T-1000 terminator for no good reason, and that's about all the plot you get for the entire game"... Then the story would have been LEGENDARY" Never claimed ME2's story was deep or complex. It's absically collect allies and go after the big bads. Both games' story are not deep. however, ME2 has fun combat, enteresting characters, good writing, and other things that make the fact the story isn't super deep not as uimportant. Just like PST's story is so good that it doesn't matter AS MUCH that the combat is subpar. "He didn't even finish Saudi before deciding the story sucked, so he actually hasn't had the opportunity to see any one of the dozen or so possible endings (each of which is dependent upon other decisions made in the game). " I played enough of the game, and read enough spoilers to know playingt he game further won't make the story any deeper than it is, the characters any more interetsing, or the C&C any more impressive than it is. Someone who played the game twice posted a bunch of spoilers that AP fanboys' celebreted C&C is a myth. Why in the bejeebers should I finish a crappy game when I instead go play the awesome MOTB again. Now, that's a real Obsidian RPG to be proud of.

" This is a story-driven RPG for people that like story-driven RPGs. " That's awesome. I love story RPGs. MTOb and PST are just two to come to mind, and sorry dude AP isn't even in the same disucssion. It's not even story focused, and mostd efinitely not at the level of 'real' story focused games. AP is just a horrible. I just AP as a RPG, and it's a poor one. Plain, and simple. And, yes, you can comapre ME2 and AP. Just as you can compare IWD and PST or FO and BL. Or BG and BG2. Or whatever. This idea you need to finish a game before being able to 'judge' it is silly. It's damn if you do, damn if you don't. If you don't finish a game then you cna't judge it; but if you fionish a game you likely liked it. Double edge sword. AP is a poor RPG. The sad fact is that teh combat is the ebst part of the game as the story is atrocious, the C&C is overrated, and the characters are garbage. they don't match up to Obsidian's prior games. And, no matter how you try to make stuff it won't change it. How in the bejebbers is AP's story deep and complex? It isn't.

He's been accused of hititng her. His ex wife of decades disputes that theory. The dentist says that the damage to her teeth/face didn't fit how it look if she actually got punched (though he's backtracked on it a bit since he got bashed by her lawyers). Experts have claimed that the tape has been at least aprtially faked. That said, Gibson has proven to have quite a temper in the past so it's not out of the realm of possibility he has the potential to get violent. So who knows what's really up. "the real victim is the child." LAWYERS: Being Paid Mega Bucks To Tell Clients The Obvious Forever.

"Volourn the master critic who didn't even finish the initial hub." Yeah, I guess the better option would be like those who finished ME2 yet hated everything about it. That would be the logical thing to do. Put in 20-30 hours of work just to say I finished it. I play games to have fun. I did not have fun with AP therefore I stopped. I have fun MOTB therefore I finished it. I had fun with KOTOR2 and SOU despite neither of them being great games; but they were fun. I played enough of AP, and read enough sdpoilers of the later parts of the game to make a solid, logical statement.I did not finish Oblivion, or FO3 yet I would not hesitate to state they were crappy games. btw, I also did not even bother to try out a barbie game to figure out I would not like it, and that's it a bad game. But, yeah, one needs to finish a game they hate to prove they hate it 'legitly'. That doesn't make sense.

"ME2 is a game for everyone but me. Poor story, porr character, a simple and uninnovative gameplay and boring fights." Wow. All that, and you still finished the game. That's impressive. I also like you insult everybody who likes a game you don't. btw, You did just describe AP. "I'm not sure I'm the one that is the "fanboy" here." Your above statement proves your fanboyism. Basically, you have made a 'factual' claim that everybody who prefers ME2 over Ap (ie. disagrees with you) are moronic tools who like a game despite it being 'objectuively' worse. Yup, putting others down to make yourself feel better about your choice of favored game is definitely a sign of fanboyism. Anyways, let's have fun: Poor story: AP's is a bad rip off of basically every season of 24. Poor characters: L0L Thorton, and company ar ejokes. Not one of them are memorable. Uninnovative Gameplay: Describes Ap to a tee. It steals ideas from better games and does them 10x times worse. Nothing original about AP at all. Boring Fights; AP has zero inetresting fights. Too bad too as Obsidian is capable of awesomely fun games like MOTB. AP bombed for a reason. It's just not a very good game.

"Sex on a drugged, nearly-unconscious person of any age is against the law... at least it is in this country." Fixed.

I knmew they were the bad the momemnt the game mentions to them. It's obvious from the get go they were up to no good. Even the very doc update about them pretty much tells you that.

"ME2 had the worst C&C I've seen in a modern RPG, bro." I have brothers, and you good sir (or ma'am) are not one of them. Why are you insulting my family? And, you gotta be kididng about ME2 having the 'worst C&C in modern RPG' that you've seen. That could only be true if you did not play NWN1, NWN2, ES series, FO3, SOZ, and a host of others. L0LZ ME2's end game ALONE has more legit C&C than the vast majority of rpgs - modern or otherwise. action rpg or otherwise.

"Really, so you're going to get the Valeria Plame references, the allusions to Haliburton/KBR, and the historical tie-in to Operation Northwoods without knowing who/what any of those things are? Without looking, can you tell me what the Military Industrial Complex is?" the shades of Haliburtin in the game is just evidence of how shallow, empty, and souless AP really is. It's mimicing the usual thing you here in politics about how big bad comapnies are evil. That's the problem with AP - even with all the political innuendo it is as shallow as a puddle that everything is simplified. Government is evil. Big companies are evil. No depth. No room to actually think. Just plain telling you what you should feel. Etc., etc. P.S. I don't know full details about the military industrial complex but I do believe its the theory that the military is what pushes industry forward . ie the military finances a lot of the big research products for weapons and the like and that often leads to other dsicoveries being found. I may be off based. Who knows. Either way, like I sadi above, not getting the connection between stuff in the game and the real world is irreleavnmt because even when you do (see haliburtin) it's just plain fluff with no real thought put into it. No deeper than say the connection between the FR's Maztica Trilogy, and the discovery of thhe Amerikas in the real world.

"With that said, it seems to me that anyone that doesn't follow politics is going to miss much of the story." False.