Volourn

"Balance depends on where you're standing on the see-saw I suppose... but you can try. It's difficult to make a perfect souffle, write an elegant short story, find a partner with whom you can dance a classic tango... all of these things are tough and people succeed. Given the success and talent at Bioware I'm sure they can do it but they need to tame David Gaider and remind him he's writing for a game, they ain't building a game for his writing. I quite like the man, from what I've seen and on the few occasions I've conversed with him, but he seems to forget his place in the fermament now and then." He knows his place. He's a writer who works for BIO not for you. They tell him what to do and he does. Monteo carlo tells him what to do and he can ignore it. BIO apprarntly likes GGHaiders' way of doing things since he's been there for how long despite all the changes. He wins. You lose. You calim in your own way that BIO hasn't balanced this sort of thing yet the evdience proves they have. "Don't bang on about choice and reactivity because we ain't buying it. " Except 'we' are. Over,a nd over again. I remember people on these boards 9and eslewhere including the BIO boards) bashing people for the hype elading up to DA's release and how it would hurt sales.. yet, DA is BIO's most successful game to date abrring potentially ME2. BIO: 1 MILLION Knowitall Forum Posters: 0

"Do we really have to go through with the "commercial success=greatness, great quality"-argument again when both of us already know the damn answer do we? Do you really want that? Do you really want to debate in favour of banality and mediocrity as a mean for commercial success? Do you? Please repeat the record then. " Read the post again. Read what i was replying to. Then read it again. Then come back again when you are willing to discuss things rationally. "Obsidian should ditch development and become a group of mercenary writers." Meh. Obsidian has done some great writing - MTOB writing was a wesome. KOTOR2 and NWN2 OC were slightly above average as well. But, the existence of SOZ and AP shows that Obsidian can write some stinkers as well. Afterall we all know being 'professional' means mocking someone being a janitor. L0L Avellone is one of the best writers in the business (his work on FO2, PST, and MOTB proves this); but some stuff is pretty stinky. P.S. i do find it funny that the same people whoa re bashing using the dialogue wheel in DA2 as a sign of dumbing down are the same people who praise AP's rather lacklustre writing.. which also uses a dialogue whel of sorts. L0LZ Dialogue system will not determine the quality of writing. period.

"Instead, they change the very things that worked. God almighty, what kind of idiots did they have in their focus groups?" The kind that has made BIO a very successful company. People are always whining about what BIO does yet they gom out and buy/play BIO games, anyways. *shrug*

So, the Swiss gov't are protecting a rapist? Nice. And, it's ion their interest to protect rapists as well? How does come to be?

"Talk is cheap, Gaider. Less telling and more showing please." What a silly comment. They aren't gonna 'show' you anything until the game is released or before that when previews start coming out. More patience, and less demanding, please.

", rework the clunky ability trees (what the **** is up with the worthless archery tree?" There are some poor ability trees in DA (*cough* shapechange *cough*); but archery isn't one of them. "but it would be defensible, which is what makes it such good potential trolling material)." Trolls can defend anything - that's what makes them trolls. The connection here to AP is very weak and lightweight.

"- the fact that your companions disagree with you will have more consequences than simply them leaving your group. Reminds me of the bonus in AP for a negative reputation with some people." This happens in DA. And, you don't even have a 'grouop' in AP. Justn non joinables. "- the flash-forward/flash-back thing for telling the story." Been done so much by everyone, it's silly to say they're ripping off any specific company. Kinda how BIo was accused of 'ripping off' SW/ST for ME despite the fact that ME bascially heavily borrowed from so many SCI-FI sources it's not even funny. "- the dialogue wheel showing moods and stances instead of a summary of what you're about to say. But then again, this is probably because the few "reports" I heve read about the thing present it as a huge difference." Eh. No biggy. All this is BIO moving THEIR 'creation' (the dialogue wheel) forward. Can they REALLy steal something from AP thatw as stolen from them? L0LZ "I don't really see it myself." Neither do I. I beleive it's just the people who are butthurt over the accusation that 'AP is a rip of ME' that they need to make this counter. All these things seem to be are BIO using features they had in previous game(s) of theirs or borrowing from multiple sources.

"At least it may make for some fun moments where I can claim that Bioware ripped off Obsidian and watch the Bioware forums explode?" How so? Nothing about DA2 remotely sounds like it is ripped off from AP/ Dialogue wheel? BIO did it first. C&C thatyou see the aftermath of in game? OMG rpgS - INCLUDING bio ONES including DA1 - has done this alreadty a billion times over. So.. what exactly is BIO 'ripping off' of AP? Other than what looks like a step backwards for DA franchise. "A lot of times picking a dialogue option in DA:O lead to the same NPC response anyway,

"There's some pretty amazingly retarded stuff on the BioWare forums." have you read this thread? It's littered with the same stuff.

"I've never seen fanboyism quite so blatant on the Obsidian forums as I have on the BioWare forums. " Kiddin' right?

NWN > DA

"For me 4x AP due to it's replayability easily triump ME2 which was one nice playthrough but I cannot see playing again any time soon (unlike AP)." Awesome. i finished ME2 3 times... I haven't even finished AP (yet) ebcause its story is just so bland. Oh noes, terrorists and conspiracies! Oh noes!

DA2: Let's Go Stupid. L A M E I must have been completely mistaken about the DA series. My bad.

" but the trust-no-one environment with focus on personal relationships between field agents, handlers on an earpiece, and the mysterious motivations of the organization they all work for is spot on. " You just described every spy focused genre piece ever.

"Ok Nintendo was a bad example but still my point is that you don't have to buy all their games to be a fanboy. I'll use another example Valve i know people that have just played the half-life series and counterstrike series and will defend Valve to the death because they love the company for making those great games. Same with Bioware they liked Mass series and kotor but never played dragon age or the other games they made." K. Except, unlike your fictional fanboy, I have heavily criticZed BIo and their games. Heck, go check on threads disucssing ME2 here. I was calling it dumbed down and getting attacked for it. *shrug* Like i said, you have been inflicted by the common internet disease of selective post reading memory. That's cool. "but that it did damn well better than any rpg before it." Nah. More than a few RPGs did it better. Including previous Obsidian games. *shrug* "Because ME2 really is the better game?" Yes.

"I have read most of the comments here and it seems you are the defendant of Bioware. While most everyone else is the defendant of Obsidian, while i'm here just amused at everyone comments. " Must explain why I 'defend' KOTOR as overrated, couldn't give a crap about Sonic RPG, found SOU merely 'average', rated the 'perfect' NWN OC an AMAZING 75%, and praised without question the dumbding down of ME2's character system... I believe you are inflicted with the rather common internet diseases known as selective reading memory. L0LZ P.S. "Since when did you have to buy all their games to be a fanboy, there are Nintendo fanboys" Poorm comparison. nintendo is a mega company that produces a bunch of games and has a bunch of other companies make games for their differencet machines while BIO is a company that releases games at a rate about one per year. Very poor comparison.

"Also it's funny seeing a Bioware fanboy (Volourn) vs Obsidian fanboys (almost everyone else)." People keep saying this even though its blantantly not true. I quite likem Obsidian. For the rcord 9again0, I have bought 100% of Obsidian's games yet I have not bough all of BIO's games. Yet, I'm a BIO 'fanboy'? The math here is illogical. "I've never understood the Obsidian OR Bioware fanbase that seems to have built up..." Hilarious thing that most hardcore Obsidian fnaboys will dread to admit is that Obsidian's audience is basically just a subset of BIO fans. Seriously, if Obsidian were to fold 9which I doubt and hope they don't); their fanbase wouild just continue buying BIO games anyway). "Bioware can quite often feel like a "travel to four hubs, accomplish sidequests, meet a bunch of dysfunctional characters, and kick ass" Sounds like Obsidian's games as well. heck, sounds like almost evry RPG ever. *shrug*

And, Obsidian's.

The above post was written on behalf of the RPG Codex.

"As for what comes to Obsidian taking chances.. I think it's a quite huge chance Feargus etc. took when they formed their own indie crpg studio. " This. This is hilarious.

"And now you are comparing c&c from AP to ME and the dialogue system that differs quite a lot from Bioware's system. C&C in ME series so far is something like you getting an email, or meeting a npc that wouldn't show up at all if you did something differently in the original game as well as your basic c&c that has been in pretty much every western rpg done by Bioware/BIS/Obsidian/Troika. Now compare that to AP where a lot of things change during your playthrough depending what you do. Don't get me even started about the dialogue system..." The dialogue systems work in the basic same way. The C&C - whether or not you think Obsidian or BIo does it better - work the same. 'Differs quite a bit' is such a ridiculous stretch it's quite laughable. Based on the same principle where the tone/approach of the character's choice is more important than the exact words. "So with your awesome logic a game can't be original or creative at all if it's a sequel even though they might have added and changed stuff that are creative&original and as well as created a way better (and new) plot, dialogue and characters. " Quality is irreleavnt. They're sequels, and they're made strictly to take advantage of the the pre made fanbase. You cana rgue to you are blue in the face that KOTOR2 is better than KOTOR1 but the bottom line is as a sequel it's not creative since the game is a sequel to KOTOR and is not original. "He isn't saying that the game itself doesn't have original ideas." This. BG2 is not more 'creative' than BG1 even though its approach tom quest design is difference since it's a sequel. We were also talking about taking chances, and BIO has taken way more chances than Obsidian ever has. From medical software to games. From suing the publisher for the rights to keep a game (NWN), from deciding on making a ME trilogy which was an unknown IP instead of simply sticking with the KOTOR series (KOTOR MMO notwithstanding, of course) which is the mor well known IP. That's taking chances. You aren't taking chances when your list of games is a who's who list of popular games/series made by OTHER developers like Obsidian; NWN2, KOTOR2, DS3, and FO: NV. The only 'original' game in Obsidian library is AP and has been pointed out by EVERYBODY including Obsidian is there is a LOT of commonality with ME. Just a fact. deal with it. And, there's nothing wrong with Obsidian's game plan. Sticking with sequels to popular games has worked for them and it's why they can keep going and be successful despite the misstep with AP. They'll bounce back. FO: LV will sell a couple mil, and DS3 shouldm at least hit the mil, and the failure of AP will be forgotten.

Sure, they do. I even gave an example. The main characters. Please don't tell me you don't see the similarities between Thornton and Shepard? Even, the fact that Thornton got recruited to a 'super duper elite organization' just like Shepard is a similarty. Seriously, did you actually play the two games?

"BTW...does this thread need to become Bioware/Obsidian fan-boy war? IMO, the story is not that simple... " Now ar from me. Despite my dissapointment in AP; I still quite like Obsidian.

"I found KOTOR2 more original and creative than KOTOR as a Star Wars game." KOTOR2 is a sequel to KOTOR which is a pre existing IP. " Mask of the Betrayers soul eating thingie (can't remember what it was called) was also somewhat original if you compare it to say NWN which didn't have anything creative nor spectacular when it comes to sp." MOTB (which, btw, I love, so I'm not about to bash it) is an expansion to NWN2 which is a sequel to NWN which is a pren exisiting IP. " Calling AP ME3 means that ME2 was Gears of War 3?" Again, AP and ME series have a lot more in common than ME and GOW of do. At best, the only thing ME and GOW have in common is a similar combat system while AP and ME share a heck of lot more similarities including and not limited to dialogue system, main charater, actual C&C,a nd overall style. " And you haven't even played DS3 or FNV. " They are sequels to popular series. It's not creative to make a game with a number beside it.

"AP isn't ME3 more than Mass Effect is Gears of War 2." AP and ME have a heck of a lot more in common than ME and GOW do.