Torm51

Dude! A Paladin is mono target up to level 13. Once they get Sacred Immolation they are AOE death machines.

I wouldn't necessarily say "unfun". They're slow at the beginning, but that's true of solo PotD in general. They can hold their own well enough and once you pick up Sacred Immolation at level 13, you become an engine of destruction. Which brings up something that is often ignored in these tier discussions: class balance is not constant across all levels. Considering the prevalent view on these forums seems to be that the early game is the hardest part on PotD, shouldn't we rate classes like Monk or Ranger, which start out very powerful, higher than the Priest, which takes a few levels to unlock its full potential? What about the Barbarian whose power depends as much on equipment as on Abilities. Or the Chanter for whom the difference between level 8 and 9 is night and day? On top of that, how much does effort factor into the power discussion? Priests are undeniably strong, but buffing up for every important fight can quickly become tedious. A Fighter with high Lore is a better wizard than the actual Wizard, but that requires you to spend time on the crafting system. On the other end of the spectrum you have Chanters, which a lot of players dislike precisely because they require little to no effort to use. Very true.

Why not? I'd say it definitely will change. The only question is whether it'll change before the release, or change at some point down the line. Hopefully at release but I doubt it.

Wanted to apologize for not giving your post a thorough read was in class at the time and responding to the other brash post lol. Although my favorite class is the Paladin I loved Vancian Casters in POE 1 (and D and D) and really like Wizard/Mages in all settings (after Paladins of course ). When they started developing POE 2 I KNEW this would happen because the Vancian system was going away, they had to somehow make them less powerful, for in game balance reasons they cant be that strong on a per encounter basis. This is why I DID NOT want multi classing but the majority beat me so here it is. I really like your suggestions and would 100% support everything you said, your experience is evident and it makes sense. That being said I think A LOT could be fixed if they REDUCED CAST TIMES! If they just did that I think it would go a long way. What do you think?

Ya not a terrible amount of damage for a non damage dealer I say. Sacred Immolation man! What Impressed me was the Great Weapon Fighter. 220k is really good. Its start SHOOTING high when you give the Fighter Charge. I would target his last enemy on the charge with my paladin, marking him (you do not have to be in melee range) just have the target selected and Eder would hit/crit everything on the way for about 80 to 100 damage and have crits in the 180s. He also most of the time had Devotions of the Faithful so it was about a +40 to ACC with Disciplined Barrage lol. Hit Concelhaut for like 200 Crush damage, he then took a fire crit from sacred immolation for about 80 and a sunlance crit and he was dead WAY before his buddies lmao. On the druid I just played it safe with a Storm tank. So yes if I would of gone spirit shift duel wield the druid would of DEFINITELY beat the paladin and the fighter. Again i went the safe route, Weapon and shield style and all saves talents, then just stand in the middle of the mob firing off storms. In a tough fight I would also use avenging storm with a dagger, always used a buckler so very quick hits. Also yes I would stand the druid in the middle and spam spells in hard fights.

Got it! Thanks I always have one single target hard hitter so maybe for my last run I will replace the Fighter for a rogue to try it out.

That’s a lot of support to make one guy work. You think the damage is that good to be worth it? If he could go from Paladin to Paladin and gib then in a few hits it might be but I don’t think he can either way. Maybe late be an actual assasisn. Backstab dragons with good pistols? He could have 3 to 4 backstabs in a fight with the right talents and equipment.

Why not?

You can win with glass cannons with enough CC on PoTD. I just play different. Every single one of my back liners has some emergency ability that makes them much harder to hit or unhittable for a duration. Just in case they take heat. This gives me time to CC or focus fire the offending enemy.

This.

Lol... We have play on same game ? Fighter/Paladins are the slowest killer of a dragon. Try a Druid (Main) + Druid + Priest + Wizard + Chanter + Barbarian. (My fav compo glass canon) Wizard or Barbarian replaced by a ranger at my leisure according to the situation. Impossible ible to say Fighter or Paladin are better than that during all the game. One of the most effective. Perhaps the best team. I have try others configurations (including paladins and fighters), nothing arrive to that level of synergy. Obviously. but you put Paladin where ? Apart last ? First of the list ? : p Indeed ! If I noted function to level 9+, chanter is easy high tier. Problem, he is really bad level 1-8. So he down a little. So I agree with you. Rogue suffer of the problem of bottleneck effect, except with a fast melee weapon. But in this case, he is extremely fragile. It is a choice, he is not bad, but not crazy. EDIT : And an old assertion : You can have +100 accuracy, nothing replace an AoE attack of wizard, barbarian, priest and Druid. Debuff of wizard/druid, AoE immnuities, fast attack of a cat spiritshifting, +25 % fire damage of chanter+dragon thrashed, and even stormcaller + a pet with a ranger. Yes you crit and you have +50 % fire damage, but one target and very slowly... So yes my tiers list is totally glass cannon oriented. I dislike tank and co. but globally the purpose of the game is to beat foes. Not turn arround : p + I have no problem to hit dragons. Devotion of the faithul + Debuff of Wizard/Priest/Druid. (very wide choice...) Definitely not the fastest dragon killers. They can just reliably keep a dragon out of the fight together. Thanks to huge ACC boosts and Prone. If you stack this like you said with priest buffs (which you can) The fighter will have a HUGE ACC bonus and not only prone the Dragon but kill him in a good amount of time while the dragon is doing nothing cause he is prone. There are many ways to skin a cat so yes the other ways you mentioned to kill a dragon are definitely effective. That being said if you play PoTD you will need more than 100 Accuracy to reliably CC a dragon or tough enemy. You can achieve this in one way by stacking Paladin ACC marking with Devotions of the Faithful. So ya priest is great. Also yes Druid and Wizard are AWESOME for AOE and downing trash mobs. A paladin can also help here with Sacred Immolation. I do not think anything you said is wrong in your second post but your first tier post is subjective. PS just finished a Triple Crown Party play through and the Paladin was 3rd in damage (154k total not terrible as that is not his main purpose) behind the storm tank druid second (156k) and 1st place low and behold the Great Weapon (Tidefall) Fighter with 220k total. So a two handed fighter destroyed both the Paladin (not surprising) and the Druid. Granted if i had made the druid a Shapes shifter DW shock lash full damage dealer the fighter likely would not have won but I took the safe route.

I’d love a stiletto rogue for a play through but the big question is survival. How do you keep him/her alive without taking a pounding since there is no aggro mechanic. This has always been my issue. Especially in the early game. Raedrics Paladins and phantoms will make mince meat out of a level 4 Duel Wield Rogue (difficulty path of the Damned). CC? Constant slickens and pray you finish the bad guys off before vancian casters are we out of spells? Maybe just give the rogue ranged weapons in the early game?

answered my own question. It is an ability he has when he gets down on endurance. If you just interrupt him from doing it he will die and you can fight the statues without him casting the spell. I have done that fight a lot but never noticed if it was an ability or something else.

Last time I won we stripped of his buffs and crushed him immediately. This is what makes Arcane Dampener or Deprive the Unworthy so OP in this fight (Thaos buffs is the only thing that makes the fight somewhat challenging). He never got back up and we just killed the Statues Of Woedica easily. This time I lost my Wizard in a scripted event and forgot the Arcane Dampener ring! So I could not strip him of buffs. (Paladin didnt take Deprive the Unworthy) So we killed him anyway even though it took longer and we took more damage. Anyway his soul jumps to a statue. We kill the statues and hes back to 100% and you have to fight him again, which we did and we killed him finally. What condition has to be set for him to jump to statues and the party having to fight him again? It did not happen last time. Even though both times we killed him first. Is it just an ability he has and I did not let him cast it last time? PS The game is always on the same difficulty. Triple Crown. So difficulties are not a variable.

It is a monk. Your main dps will be torment's reach. So just punch and have high defenses. Oh also activating Lightning Strikes!

Ya that is why I did not like it as well. 1. Too much micro. 2. Good at fighting non boss enemies. Not a good tank against bosses (but thats ok I guess as it can be your off tank) 3. No AOE to speak of for boss adds/non boss encounters, which is a problem with rogue in general. The only thing that makes boss encounters dangerous is adds and they are terrible against many adds. That being said I can still find great use for them as a Dragon Killer, as a ranged or melee combatant. You can easily stack MANY forms of raw damage on a Dragon and they have high ACC so they will be able to hit it hard and with ease and suck the life out of it (Deep Wounds + Wounding Weapons + Poison raw damage talent, plus the poison from the Stronghold quest all stack and can kill a Dragon quickly). Its the one thing I like about rogues...but I know this post isnt about that...

lol i like them! Hiravious is one if not my most favorite party member. I just think its weird when they are frontline tanks but ya it can be done of course! And Wild Orlan's Defiant Resolve is the best racial for a Dragon tank! I have to try and finish a play though with one. Its like Gnome Warriors they just dont have the weight! LOL I say that and I playing a game where fireballs are being conjured. I know so retarded. That being said I like Orlans PS I fall to the old D and D tropes of small races not being warriors etc. I am a sucker for it do not know why. I like race restrictions, I am not saying their should be any here! POE is not old D and D (and I like POE better)...new D and D lets you be a half orc Paladin (I think, I know the race restrictions are really loose) so It is doing the same as POE.

So I am finishing another Triple Crown with the same build on my custom Druid the only difference being I got 15 PER and 10 resolve. If the Druid is the main PC I’d like the resolve too or if you have a priest with blessing/a Paladin with Zealous Focus or someone with Gallants Focus you won’t miss the 5 PER. If you don’t have the above and or the Druid is a party member and not the PC and you are taking resolve for the deflection you won’t need it. The custom PC Storm Druid tank I have has no deflection increasing talents other then weapon and shield style and she rocks. But she has a party for some support. Long story short that will work quite nicely.

Lol, funny cause they make great dragon tanks as Paladins or another other high HP/END class (Wild) but I cant stand to finish a play through with them.

Same, that being said I’m just an old Salt Dog/ curmudgeon so I find it cheap. I’m not saying it’s cheap it is not. I just grumble a lot and like the old d and d rules where no respec was in. Bad build? You suck start again. For instance I was a Forward Observer in the military you couldn’t just instantly retrain me into a Cannon Crewmen. So I impose those rules on myself. Cause I like pain and failure makes you learn the hard way

Other things to worry about I think.

My personal fav is a mix of CC and Impliments damage. Look up Zeblastion Hurtstacker. Spells I master for that build are slicken, Blind spell Curse of Blackened Sight, llengraths displaced image for level 3. I get arcane veil and those defense spells like llengraths so the AI never looks at the wizard. If you fire a spell like llengraths at the start of every fight your wizard won’t Agro much. In hard fights I use the speed spell (Deletrious something motion I forget lol) , Kalkoth’s Minor Blights, or I go AOE bomber mode to kill adds ASAP and leave the boss by himself. Speed spell, Llengraths displaced image, llengraths safeguard, arcane veil (you are untouchable at this point and if something hits you hard somehow you will AOE prone and push everything) and spam minolettas precisely piercing burst and torrent of flame (torrent has friendly fire but if you have good front liners that are a sturdy it wont matter much). All adds will melt. Ensure you are buffed with accuracy for max damage. Wizards are powerful indeed. For damage dealing, weapon focus noble, dangerous implements, marksman, blast, penetrating blast, penetrating shot I am like you in that I do not like going under 10 although it is good for a lot of builds. I like the triple 5 and 3 rule for my role play. 5 in stats I really want and 3 in my "minor" stat. For the type of wizard i just mentioned i like. 15 Might 10 Con 13 Dex with the speed spell and light armor/robes you will not need much dex. You will be extremely fast anyway. 15 Per 15 Int 10 Res Hey just realized rank 10 on the forums! Time to start necroing threads!

Seconded, it's an excellent expansion. Thirded. Great stuff and well worth your time! Fourthed. Grabs you way harder than the main game. I agree 200% I also agree 200%!

Sweet. Good deal.

Dude I do not know what it is with Aloth but I find a way to get him killed often. I ALWAYS have a rope! Oh well no reload I have always turned POE into a bit of roguelike when it comes to death. Dead is Dead...oh it has cost me some really good characters too. I have the Alpine Dragon down, so only tough fights left is Concelhaut, Llengrath (I might not fight her for once but I always end up thinking he/she is a hypocrite and do the fight!) and the Adra Dragon (I always say the Adra Dragon cause I have more trouble with her then the Alpine for some reason).