"Talking through" the game

[actionjezus6]

I am all optimistic about PE and there is one thing that I really care about:

 

Will it be possible to "talk out" of every (or most) combats in game ?

Personally I tend to and love to create very charismatic characters, but in terms of efficiency I always have to hide them in combat, and have little gain from them other than little fun in talks with NPC's. In most cRPG charismatic characters simply can't compete with those focused on combat, because there is very little to be gained from conversations.

I would love to see that in PE I could play someone who can nearly talk himself out of anything. Or just have meaningful and rich talk alternatives other than : "[Persuade] Show me the money" ;p

 

Well... also I would like to know your opinion.

 

(F:NV is just a point of reference, I know other games had it done better )

Edited September 19, 2012 by actionjezus6

[Starwars]

I absolutely don't want to be able to talk my way out of every encounter. But it *would* be nice to be able to finish the game without killing anyone directly if possible if you apply yourself. New Vegas was a great example of this I think. There were many skill checks in dialogue (not only the classic Speech), and outside conversations, there were ways to either bypass (sneaking) combat or use things like non-lethal ammo.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

But it *would* be nice to be able to finish the game without killing anyone directly if possible if you apply yourself.

 

It would be even nicer to be able finish the game with killing everyone indirectly. "The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy"

[Nivenus]

I recently played through the first Fallout and I liked what they had there: with a high enough Speech skill and Charisma value you could talk your way out of most of everything... but it wasn't easy.

 

I think players should definitely be given the option to use conversation to get out of most of the game's hazardous situations and to earn rewards, but they should have to invest in that option, just as a warrior character would have to invest in their weapons skills.

 

What I wouldn't like is for it to be like Dragon Age II or the later Mass Effect games (although I liked all three of the aforementioned) where your persuasive ability was in many cases a function of simply choosing the right option in dialogue, resulting in automatic success if you choose the right option and an automatic failure if you choose the wrong one. There should always be a slight chance of failure, even at higher levels, and you should always (IMO) have to invest in one or more social skills to really talk your way out of "anything."

[Arundor]

I voted "almost everything".

 

Persuasion options for high profile enemies or "boss" style encounters would be preferable, but I don't think it's necessary to put in persuasion options for every random grunt or foot soldier you encounter.,

 

Also, I think the persuasion path should sometimes lead to a different outcome than combat. It shouldn't be that you either fight or talk your way through an encouter then just move on to the next stage of the quest. Instead, the choice between talking and fighting should effect how the rest of the quest plays out. The "better" option should be subjective, or if there is a definitively "better" result then the means of getting it should be varied at different points in the game. Talking shouldn't always be a better choice then fighting, and vice versa.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Arundor

[actionjezus6]

I absolutely don't want to be able to talk my way out of every encounter. But it *would* be nice to be able to finish the game without killing anyone directly if possible if you apply yourself. New Vegas was a great example of this I think. There were many skill checks in dialogue (not only the classic Speech), and outside conversations, there were ways to either bypass (sneaking) combat or use things like non-lethal ammo.

 

Imo New Vegas was not a great example of finishing the game with charismatic character. Sure, it was good in that aspect, but still - playing with NVR, at highest difficulty and specializing in "talking" was suicide. And the game isn't that difficult then if you choose any other combat-oriented alternative. "Speech" and speech-alike skills are good only as secondary options, not primary. And that is my main problem with it.

It would be nice to play someone who can tell enemies to go f[bip] themselves and the only thing they will feel is excitement about the upcoming travel.

[Thraxen]

There should certainly be some situations where you can't talk yourself out of, but I hope the last boss will be "Speechable". Maybe not talking down the last boss himself, but maybe convincing others to help you out like in Fallout 2 or something similar.

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

IMO, it would be a good feature to be able to talk ones way out of almost everything. Of course there'd be times when talking doesn't help, but it would do a great deal towards the possibility of a pacifist playthrough.

 

Speech checks though, I'd prefer to be hidden in a certain sense. So no big "Persuade"'s or success % showing, but in more concealed sense, like in Fallout 1 and 2.

[Playgu]

It was good in NwN1 expansions.. smooth talking gave you good rewards and sometimes you could make new friends instead of smashing heads.

[Entropious]

I chose "everything" but only under the condition that features such as magical domination, hypnosis and the like are present (varieties on Jedi Mind Trick) where you can simply make someone believe or behave in a way you deem appropriate. If such conditions are met, I would vote for the possibility of finishing the entire game without killing (by yourself) a single being.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Entropious

[MinotaurWarrior]

I think the "normal" level of fast-talking in Black Isle / Troika / Obsidian games is good enough. It doesn't make sense to be able to fast-talk your way out of everything - but at the same time, stealthy smooth talkers who plan carefully and turn foe against foe should be able to avoid a lot of trouble.

 

One thing I'd like to see more of, would be smooth-talking as the "darker shade of grey." This shouldn't be true 100% of the time, but every once in a while you should have the option to tell the fifty-man patrol, "No, I'm not the fugitive you're looking for. Check in the next village over," knowing that they will then go on to Mai Lai Massacre that village. I feel that smooth-talking is too often set up in situations where your choice is simply "completely avoid conflict" or "pointlessly slaughter your foes." A mixture of smooth-talking as lighter and smooth-talking as darker would be nice.

[Pangur]

Voted "almost everything". I like to find peaceful solutions to difficult situations but of course it should be reasonable. Also would be nice if we received the same amount of xp for using our wits as for using our sword.

[Labadal]

I would love if it was an option to complete the game without killing anyone, but it wouldn't be something I did on a first playthrough.

[Flouride]

Yes, but not always. I'm thinking Fallout, Fallout 2 and PS:T when it comes to "talking your way out of fights". And never force the player first go through waves of enemies and then be able to talk the "big bad guy" out of the fight. I hate it. "Oh I just killed everyone of your lackeys, wanna be my friend?"

Edited September 20, 2012 by Flouride

[SanguineAngel]

Given the inspiration of Planescape and fallout, I am very optimistic about this. If I recall, it was possible to complete Planescape killing only 1 person. Whilst I distinctly remember in the old fallouts many a bandit camp stumbled upon and negotiating my way out. What happens if you can talk to the monsters? Turns out you can convince them not to kill you and you have a wicked time.

 

Edit: As Pangur mentioned, the XP system in place would need to account for this.

Edited September 20, 2012 by SanguineAngel

[Volourn]

Every RPG - including PST and FO - that potentially allows you to 'talk your way out of every/most situation is contrived. See Master in FO. Contrived.

 

I believe you should be able to talk your way through situations where it makes sense. there should also be ways to avoid combat through non dialogue actions as well.

 

But, this idea that you can go a 'grand adventure' without some type of conflict is just beyond silly adn seems better suited for an Adventure game not a RPG.

[evdk]

I wouldn't say the master is the best example for contrived dialogue resolutions (personally I would use the Legate in F:NV) but otherwise I am in full agreement.

 

 

Volourn is making sense, I guess 2012 is really ITZ.

[Infinitron]

Perhaps the game could support some kind of pacifist playthrough, but it should be an esoteric metagaming gimmick, like finishing Fallout 2 in less than twenty minutes.

[SanguineAngel]

Is that not a problem regarding the writing rather than the mechanic itself?

[timobkg]

I'd like for your character to be able to be so persuasive, that if you were found standing over the body of a dead man with the bloody knife still clutched in your hand, you'd be able to not only talk your way out of being imprissoned, but would even convince the victim's family to wash the blood out of your clothing.

[BasaltineBadger]

First of all I doubt that with 6 party members talking yourself out of trouble will be necessary. In games like Bloodlines of Fallout you could have trouble while travelling alone or with AI controlled companion, but when you are controlling 6 of them you should be able to complete mandatory encounters. Personally I almost never talk myself out of combat, it's just clicking button to skip interactive content (combat), i only use persuasion when it gives better results like in the Torment ending.

[Brodin]

While being able to avoid combat through diplomacy generally is a good thing, there probably should be situations were it would be impossible or illogical for it to work. Let's see how it turns out. Is it possible to completely avoid combat in Project Eternity?

[incubus9]

Since reading the latest update about "souls" I feel even more that the option of a completely non-violent playthrough should be available. Since many different backgrounds have very different views on the working of the soul, it should be logical that some assume that a non-violent approach is the only solution.

[semu]

I'd really like the option to avoid combats. When talking about cRPGs - or pretty much any game -, I usually just prefer to discover the world and complete quests in sort of peace. Facing high power "random" enemies when you've skilled pretty much only your conversational skills can be really irritating if you're saving your equipment (including ammo, food etc.) for some character that actually has its effect on the main plot.

 

Of course, you should make it so that you wouldn't only benefit from trying to play that way. Maybe make some side quests requiring combat skills or maybe even two-way decisions with bigger consequences?

[Merin]

I'm for being able to talk your way out of almost everything, but would think there should be instances where you can try but there is no way to completely avoid conflict or gain a solid alliance. There are matters of degree - and you should always be able to lessen (or increase, if that is what you are looking for) hostility... but not necessarily always be able to end (or incite complete) hostility.

 

Used to be I'd play every cRPG that would let me as the super-smart, super-charismatic guy who try to think and talk his way out of any fight. I still like doing that, but I ran into too many games where it allowed you to talk but not talk your way out and I had to adjust.

 

So, yeah, let those who want diplomatic, pacifistic characters to go that route. At least to an Alpha Protocol level if not a Fallout level.