Politics' Official Eighteenth Thread

[smjjames]

To nobody’s surprise, no Democrats are invited to meeting on Russia docs. I hope they realize the optics of it, whether or not any Democrats requested seeing it, as Sarah Sanders claims the Democrats didn’t.

 

Though maybe Schiff will get a copy, as the article mentions, dunno.

[Volourn]

"Cops only shoot black kids or drunk dads"

 

Facts to back this up, please. Up to you, either way, I call  it that you absolutely lied. Rather pathetic way to misinform people.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Volourn

[smjjames]

"Cops only shoot black kids or drunk dads"

 

Facts to back this up, please. Up to you, either way, I call it that you absolutely lied. Rather pathetic way to misinform people.

Your sarcasm detector failed. While he wasn’t being sarcastic on blacks, the rest of the sentence and what he said afterwards makes it pretty clear that he wasn’t being serious.

Edited May 22, 2018 by smjjames

[Maedhros]

https://www.apnews.com/82625458838c4ba39b58affa88473500/Dems-want-to-scrap-tax-cut-for-rich-to-fund-teachers'-raises

 

Sounds good to me.

[Hurlshort]

https://www.apnews.com/82625458838c4ba39b58affa88473500/Dems-want-to-scrap-tax-cut-for-rich-to-fund-teachers'-raises

 

Sounds good to me.

 

Sounds great, but I doubt it will happen, and it is also a long way from the Federal government to the salary schedule of certificated teachers. The reality is certain states and school districts are terribly run, and that $50 billion over a decade might not help much if they don't fix the top heavy issues.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Nothing that's public in America will ever again consistently be on an upward trajectory.

 

The reason for that are ideological and have little to do with available means. The U.S. populace is the best ideologically groomed populace in the world because it blankly accepts the coexistence of unparalleled wealth and many, practically third world quality, public services as a fact of life, as if comparatively poorer countries have not already demonstrated that as a point of civilizational development, this doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be the case.

 

This is because Americans seem to fervently believe 2 myths:

1. Wealth is predominantly created by hard work of entrepreneurial individuals and it's unfair to deprive them of it to feed the 'lazy leechers' at the bottom. This is just wrong. Wealth is an overwhelmingly inherited matter of class, and genuine 'made men' are far and few in-between. Most people that have lots of money did little to earn it (and have a comparatively easier time perpetuating it, than anyone climbing from the bottom). 

2. The market knows best and will sort it out, so hand's off 'our money'. This has been demonstrated by every political economist with a shred of decency (so, no Milton Freedmans) to be completely bogus. The market won't sort out anything, and without severe correction it will concentrate wealth and spread deprivation. Markets are concerned with profit, not equality or justice and will naturally throw the latter under the bus at first opportunity.

 

The logic that follows out of this is that the current state of affairs is the 'best one' or 'least bad one' and that any tampering will result in a terrible injustice to some hard working soul, and be downright immoral.

 

And if you go so far as to suggest otherwise as some of the old American socialists/communists and unions did, well then, we'll just take a machine gun to you, as they did in Ludlow. 

 

After decades of such indoctrination, you can be forgive Americans for referring to Bernie Sander is a "Communist", something that was a running joke in Europe during the presidential elections. Nevertheless it speaks well of how truly fundamentalist the U.S. is regarding it's approach to old style capitalism, when a man that could barely qualify as 'democratic socialist' in Europe (basically capitalists with a bit of social policy, absolute lowest rung of leftist politics) is branded as an extreme leftist. 

 

All this prevents any serious discussion into a systematic overhaul of any public services, or any sort of 'new deal' and without the ideological threat of the USSR breathing down it's neck, there is no pressure on the American ruling class to change anything. So they won't. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[smjjames]

I figured the whole ‘Bernie Sanders is a Communist!’ thing was due to remnants of anti-communist fervor from the Cold War and the word ‘socialist’ still being a trigger word for a significant slice of the voting public.

 

And yeah, Bernie Sanders would be considered roughly centrist in Europe.

 

Also, the two points isn’t believed by every single person in the US (not sure if you’re from the US or not Drowsy Emperor), but they are the predominant beliefs for Republicans.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I know there are a lot of people in the U.S. that understand very well how things are (not just on Sanders but on all of these issues) but they aren't a significant enough or influential enough chunk of the population. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[Bartimaeus]

​

I figured the whole ‘Bernie Sanders is a Communist!’ thing was due to remnants of anti-communist fervor from the Cold War and the word ‘socialist’ still being a trigger word for a significant slice of the voting public.

 

And yeah, Bernie Sanders would be considered roughly centrist in Europe.

 

Also, the two points isn’t believed by every single person in the US (not sure if you’re from the US or not Drowsy Emperor), but they are the predominant beliefs for Republicans.

IIRC, Sanders described himself as a "socialist", which wasn't really even correct, so that didn't help matters much. Then you throw in our scorched earth and Byzantine state of affairs in politics, and it's not exactly a surprise that the label so quickly got out of hand.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[smjjames]

​

I figured the whole ‘Bernie Sanders is a Communist!’ thing was due to remnants of anti-communist fervor from the Cold War and the word ‘socialist’ still being a trigger word for a significant slice of the voting public.And yeah, Bernie Sanders would be considered roughly centrist in Europe.Also, the two points isn’t believed by every single person in the US (not sure if you’re from the US or not Drowsy Emperor), but they are the predominant beliefs for Republicans.

IIRC, Sanders described himself as a "socialist", which wasn't really even correct, so that didn't help matters much. Then you throw in our scorched earth and Byzantine state of affairs in politics, and it's not exactly a surprise that the label so quickly got out of hand.

To be fair, the word ‘socialist’ has just about lost all meaning in the US. Republicans have called Obama socialist when obviously he’s not. Now it’s just a trigger word and shorthand for ‘thing I don’t like or thing that I disagree with. And it triggers my consistuents.’

[Bartimaeus]

No doubt, but I did expect a little better from the man himself. Admittedly, it probably gets old saying "social democrat" over and over when people hear the word "social" and immediately jump to putting the "ist" at the end anyways. If nothing else, it helped some people people get over their phobia of the word.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"Cops only shoot black kids or drunk dads"

 

Facts to back this up, please. Up to you, either way, I call it that you absolutely lied. Rather pathetic way to misinform people.

Learn to take a joke snowflake.

 

No doubt, but I did expect a little better from the man himself. Admittedly, it probably gets old saying "social democrat" over and over when people hear the word "social" and immediately jump to putting the "ist" at the end anyways. If nothing else, it helped some people people get over their phobia of the word.

I suppose some got over it, but others still meltdown to red scare tier hysteria over the mention of public healthcare. Strangely enough this is bipartsian, with certain Democrats thinking anyone left of neoliberalism is a Russian plant who ruined Hillary's coronation.

[smjjames]

I think that was just Volourns sarcasm detector failing rather than being offended by the joke.

[Hurlshort]

Nothing that's public in America will ever again consistently be on an upward trajectory.

 

The reason for that are ideological and have little to do with available means. The U.S. populace is the best ideologically groomed populace in the world because it blankly accepts the coexistence of unparalleled wealth and many, practically third world quality, public services as a fact of life, as if comparatively poorer countries have not already demonstrated that as a point of civilizational development, this doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be the case.

 

This is because Americans seem to fervently believe 2 myths:

1. Wealth is predominantly created by hard work of entrepreneurial individuals and it's unfair to deprive them of it to feed the 'lazy leechers' at the bottom. This is just wrong. Wealth is an overwhelmingly inherited matter of class, and genuine 'made men' are far and few in-between. Most people that have lots of money did little to earn it (and have a comparatively easier time perpetuating it, than anyone climbing from the bottom). 

 

 

It's not a complete myth, though. There are self made men (or women) all over the country. The reason it is believed fervently is because you have entire industries built by people who came from average families. Is there another country that has produced so many first generation millionaires? I'm surrounded by young millionaires who came from middle class roots, so it's pretty easy to buy in.

 

Also it is easy to look at everything public in the US in the big picture and be critical. I'd agree on a Federal (100%) and State (depends) level we have been stuck on a downward trajectory for far too long. But at a local level there are still amazing things happening in this country on a regular basis. Is Betsy Davos going to save the entire US Public Education system? Of course not! Even if she was qualified, she would have little luck with that. But the odds are good that plenty of struggling schools across the country are going to adopt programs that help them be more successful in the future. Some terrible administrator or superintendent is going to get pushed out and replaced with someone with vision, and some young person is going to get into education for the right reasons. I see it happen every year, it's not a myth. The US is doing great despite the best efforts of the Federal government. 

[Agiel]

 

 

Our Towns

A 100,000-mile journey into the heart of America

by James Fallows and Deborah Fallows

 

A vivid, surprising portrait of the civic and economic reinvention taking place in America, town by town and generally out of view of the national media. A realistically positive and provocative view of the country between its coasts. 

 

For the last five years, James and Deborah Fallows have been traveling across America in a single-engine prop airplane. Visiting dozens of towns, they have met hundreds of civic leaders, workers, immigrants, educators, environmentalists, artists, public servants, librarians, business people, city planners, students, and entrepreneurs to take the pulse and understand the prospects of places that usually draw notice only after a disaster or during a political campaign. 

 

The America they saw is acutely conscious of its problems—from economic dislocation to the opioid scourge—but itis also crafting solutions, with a practical-minded determination at dramatic odds with the bitter paralysis of national politics. At times of dysfunction on a national level, reform possibilities have often arisen from the local level. The Fallowses describe America in the middle of one of these creative waves. Their view of the country is as complex and contradictory as America itself, but it also reflects the energy, the generosity and compassion, the dreams, and the determination of many who are in the midst of making things better. Our Towns is the story of their journey—and an account of a country busy remaking itself.

 

   

[rjshae]

This morning I started thinking about what titles certain well-known individuals would have if they had superhero powers.

 

I finally came to Trump. Perhaps a Captain of some sort? No, that's not grand enough to hold his superpowered ego. He has to be a General of some sort.

 

 

General Chaos

 

 

Perfect.

[smjjames]

This morning I started thinking about what titles certain well-known individuals would have if they had superhero powers.

 

I finally came to Trump. Perhaps a Captain of some sort? No, that's not grand enough to hold his superpowered ego. He has to be a General of some sort.

 

 

General Chaos

 

 

Perfect.

That’d also make for a great pun.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Nothing that's public in America will ever again consistently be on an upward trajectory.

 

The reason for that are ideological and have little to do with available means. The U.S. populace is the best ideologically groomed populace in the world because it blankly accepts the coexistence of unparalleled wealth and many, practically third world quality, public services as a fact of life, as if comparatively poorer countries have not already demonstrated that as a point of civilizational development, this doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be the case.

 

This is because Americans seem to fervently believe 2 myths:

1. Wealth is predominantly created by hard work of entrepreneurial individuals and it's unfair to deprive them of it to feed the 'lazy leechers' at the bottom. This is just wrong. Wealth is an overwhelmingly inherited matter of class, and genuine 'made men' are far and few in-between. Most people that have lots of money did little to earn it (and have a comparatively easier time perpetuating it, than anyone climbing from the bottom). 

 

 

It's not a complete myth, though.

 

 

Isn't it, though?

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Nothing that's public in America will ever again consistently be on an upward trajectory.

 

The reason for that are ideological and have little to do with available means. The U.S. populace is the best ideologically groomed populace in the world because it blankly accepts the coexistence of unparalleled wealth and many, practically third world quality, public services as a fact of life, as if comparatively poorer countries have not already demonstrated that as a point of civilizational development, this doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be the case.

 

This is because Americans seem to fervently believe 2 myths:

1. Wealth is predominantly created by hard work of entrepreneurial individuals and it's unfair to deprive them of it to feed the 'lazy leechers' at the bottom. This is just wrong. Wealth is an overwhelmingly inherited matter of class, and genuine 'made men' are far and few in-between. Most people that have lots of money did little to earn it (and have a comparatively easier time perpetuating it, than anyone climbing from the bottom). 

 

 

It's not a complete myth, though.

 

 

Isn't it, though?

 

 

Certainly not a myth. Being unlikely is not the same as being mythical.

 

 

There is in fact a good deal of fluidity in the American earnings distribution across the generations with the children of most middle earning parents experiencing outcomes that are not strongly associated with their parents’ income levels. But even so, on average, the United States stands out as being among the least generationally mobile among the rich countries, and in particular the overall degree of relative earnings mobility across the generations is almost three times greater in Canada, a country to which it might be most apt to make a comparison. This difference is due to a greater stickiness in earnings across the generations at both the top and the bottom.

[ShadySands]

Somewhat relevant, The Productivity-Pay Gap.

[Chilloutman]

Somewhat relevant, The Productivity-Pay Gap.

 

Well, I just looked, not that its might not be true but:

 

 

EPI is an independent, nonprofit think tank that researches the impact of economic trends and policies on working people in the United States. EPI’s research helps policymakers, opinion leaders, advocates, journalists, and the public understand the bread-and-butter issues affecting ordinary Americans.

  Office of the President

Thea Lee, President

 

Lee came to EPI from the AFL-CIO, a voluntary federation of 56 national and international labor unions that represent 12.5 million working men and women.

[Chilloutman]

Strong language (probably)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11YJaE51Zxw

[smjjames]

‘Fat white man from the whiskey belt’ sounds like it could double as a reference to America, heh. And I guess the mis-grammar of ‘Based Danish’ instead of ‘Danish Based’ is intentional as a few other vids shown as links after it’s over, show the same thing?

Edited May 23, 2018 by smjjames

[Volourn]

"Learn to take a joke snowflake"

 

FAKE NEWS ALERT.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Isn't it, though?

 

Certainly not a myth. Being unlikely is not the same as being mythical.

 

 

There is in fact a good deal of fluidity in the American earnings distribution across the generations with the children of most middle earning parents experiencing outcomes that are not strongly associated with their parents’ income levels. But even so, on average, the United States stands out as being among the least generationally mobile among the rich countries, and in particular the overall degree of relative earnings mobility across the generations is almost three times greater in Canada, a country to which it might be most apt to make a comparison. This difference is due to a greater stickiness in earnings across the generations at both the top and the bottom.

 

 

 

I mean, that's technically true - the best kind of true! -, but at the same time, when Canada has three times the generational earnings mobility without the weird obsession with self-made men, I'd say that maybe the American attitude is somewhat misplaced.

 

 

Lee came to EPI from the AFL-CIO, a voluntary federation of 56 national and international labor unions that represent 12.5 million working men and women.

 

 

I fail to see how that is relevant.