Edér: What happened?

[Galagraphia]

First of all: I hope this won't be seen as a hate thread. I'll try to abstain from my emotions and talk about what bothers me in the way Edér is written in Deadfire, because I need to talk about it.

 

1. Friendship with the Watcher.

As much as friendship with Edér was satisfying in the first game, as much it's disappointing now. Edér doesn’t feel like your old buddy who've been through all sorts of things with you, like dragons, gods, jumping into the endless pit, etc. He feels very distant. So few friendly interactions. No inside jokes. Before he won me over by being very caring and attentive to my character, but now his friend shares the soul with his god, and he's so indifferent to it. I miss him waking my Watcher up and promising a bucket of water.

 

2. Personal development.

In Pillars 1 Edér ended up a mayor in my game. The epilogue noted his optimism and strong desire to help people. He seemed determined and empowered, but in Deadfire he seems depressed all of a sudden. Maybe it's a bug, because it doesn't make any sense to me. His personal quest seems rather odd too. It seems more logical for him to have a quest to find Eothas and finally get the answers about Woden and Saint's War, but instead he's chasing his dead ex girlfriend, who dumped him twice, told him to move on and find someone who will appreciate his soft heart, and clearly moved on herself, married someone and had a son. So instead of going forward with personal development, Edér apparently goes 20 years back. Is this a midlife crisis? It feels so dissatisfying, especially comparing to Aloth, who strides forward boldly. Edér feels stuck and depressed for some reason, and it's never explained why is he like this, or why does he act like an old man whose life will end tomorrow? (He's only 37 years old, if it's true he was 32 in the first game).

 

3. Romance.

After Elafa told Edér (in the short story) to find someone who would love him, giving him a romantic arc seemed like a logical choice, especially after everything he's been through with the Watcher. And his actions say he does care about the Watcher, but he says he never thought about it? I just find it hard to believe. Indeed, like Tekehu noted, Ngati weeps for such wasted potential. His sudden fixation on Elafa after 20 years seems rather artificial and forced. For some reason she's suddenly the only person he could talk about things that worry him, but not the Watcher, who he never had problems sharing his thoughts with before. So it's the dead girlfriend and he will never love again. Seriously?

 

TL/DR (and personal feelings ): I feel like this is not Edér. Like maybe Leaden Key kidnapped him and replaced with a depressing clone. It's definitely not the Edér I was so excited to meet before the Deadfire release, and the change is so drastic and so inexplicable, that almost feels like the most beloved character was deliberately sabotaged as some kind of a cruel joke. I don't expect to get the answer "why", but I talked to other fans about this, and we agreed that it feels extremely disappointing, what was done with Edér, and perhaps if we provide feedback, then it will help Obsidian somehow in the future. Or please, for the love of god, patch him if this is a bug! Give us our friend back.

[Slotharingia]

Interesting. I always play male characters and Eder felt the same to me as in 1. Aloth however, feels completely different. He was one of my favourite characters in 1 (2nd after Zahua), and my Watchers were always really kind to him, which he arguably doesn't deserve at all, yet in Deadfire, he's an aloof, judgemental git. My approval with him is still at 0, and was even at -1 at one point until I reloaded and kicked him out of the party for that particular scene xD (everyone else I cart around has been at  +2 for ages). He's also at -2 with Serafen and Tekehu, while they are at 0 with him). Eder OTOH is still a fuzzy teddy bear. Enjoys jokes, likes helping, isn't judgy. I think he was depressed in 1 too. I wonder if this feeling re. characters depends upon how invested we were in them in 1. I mean, I always liked Eder, but it wasn't anything I was really passionate about, and I also won't be trying to romance him any time soon, as I'm assuming he's always straight. I agree that if you are a female, it would seem odd the thought never crossed his mind before.

[RocketChaser]

Can't say I agree to be fair. Same old Eder to me.

 

Him and Pallegina their old selves. Very fond.

[BrokenMask]

Yeah, Eder feels same as in Pillars 1 to me

[Tarlonniel]

He feels the same as in the first game to me too. Which is a shame, because I'm the one person who didn't like him then, and I don't like him now either

[acrimony]

I agree that Eder seems different and some of his opinions don't seem to make much sense based on what we know about him, but I think all of the companion interactions in general are more shallow in PoE2, unfortunately.

 

I had the ending where he became mayor also, and he had the mayoral neckwear thing, but he only talked about going to see his parents when I asked what he was up to.  Was that a bug, or is that the only dialogue available for "skeptic" Eder?  The way he feels about Aloth now makes some sense, since I have Aloth as the leader of the Leaden Key in this game, but at the same time, they had the same adventures together that he had with the Watcher, and he seems to be okay with whatever the Watcher did. 

 

As far as the relationship with the Watcher, yeah, I don't get it.  He does show concern at times, but yeah, not like in the first game, and his personal quest is kind of insulting for those who were hoping to romance him...another dead former lover?  After Boone in New Vegas, and about half a dozen Bioware games?  Come on, Obsidian writers.  You're better than that.  At least give him an original personal quest, even if you don't want him to be a romanceable character.  Rehashing the dead lover storyline seemed cheap.

 

Honestly, I'm cool with Eder being my platonic life partner, but I really wish he had a more interesting personal story, and had more to say in general, even to Aloth and Pallegina, in this game.  I'm still having fun, but the lack of companion depth is disappointing.

[Ryz009]

Interesting. I always play male characters and Eder felt the same to me as in 1. Aloth however, feels completely different. He was one of my favourite characters in 1 (2nd after Zahua), and my Watchers were always really kind to him, which he arguably doesn't deserve at all, yet in Deadfire, he's an aloof, judgemental git. My approval with him is still at 0, and was even at -1 at one point until I reloaded and kicked him out of the party for that particular scene xD (everyone else I cart around has been at  +2 for ages). He's also at -2 with Serafen and Tekehu, while they are at 0 with him). Eder OTOH is still a fuzzy teddy bear. Enjoys jokes, likes helping, isn't judgy. I think he was depressed in 1 too. I wonder if this feeling re. characters depends upon how invested we were in them in 1. I mean, I always liked Eder, but it wasn't anything I was really passionate about, and I also won't be trying to romance him any time soon, as I'm assuming he's always straight. I agree that if you are a female, it would seem odd the thought never crossed his mind before.

 

Same. Eder's still a bro but Aloth seems to have lost all his sense of humor.

[Vengeful_Divine]

I'm pretty much in agreement with this whole thing.

I still had fun, and I felt that my Watcher organically fell for Tekehu despite coming into the game with unrequited/unspoken feelings for Eder.

 

But I didn't find Eder as consistently caring or kind like I remember him being in the first game. He still seems to care, but as Gala said it felt... distant. And he was pretty bitter speaking about everything Eothas despite it being one of his 'Likes'. He very much felt like a depressed shadow of his old self. His nicest and funniest interactions often weren't with the Watcher at all.

 

I am curious if this is related to what I saw someone else mention and it happened to me as well- that he started with the mayor medallion as expected but only spoke about going home to his parents. And that whole trip seemed to leave him lost and a bit empty because they didn't really connect with him anymore plus he never found a cause he believed in.

 

The personal quest I didn't mind so much initially. It hurt a bit but I just thought we were meant to help him get past it and find closure etc. I'm frankly pretty shocked that they completely blocked off player romance as an option though. He shut down Xoti(a bit cruelly even from the sounds of it) at the end of mine too despite high approval between them, so I'm not sure if he's just destined to remain alone? A very odd choice.

 

I find myself greatly hoping this is a bug related to the inconsistent PoE history tracking (I've seen a fair few instances of that, from companions to the Hollowborn choice, even when I used the custom history builder).

Even if not for me, then for everyone who genuinely hoped for a loving Eder

[Ninjamestari]

I think some people have said that Edér's history scripts are bugged somehow, so there just might be a locust in the wiring of the game causing your PoE1 choices to be ignored.

[Taevyr]

I agree that Eder seems different and some of his opinions don't seem to make much sense based on what we know about him, but I think all of the companion interactions in general are more shallow in PoE2, unfortunately.

 

I had the ending where he became mayor also, and he had the mayoral neckwear thing, but he only talked about going to see his parents when I asked what he was up to.  Was that a bug, or is that the only dialogue available for "skeptic" Eder?

 

It's a bug: when continuing from my own save with "mayor Eder" using the hotfix, he talked about how he settled in dyrford, was attacked by the skaenite mayor, and thus became mayor after killing the old one.

 

He then ruminates a bit on his mayoral skills and the burden of responsibility, the latter being the same as in his other endings.

[Ryz009]

When is that patch coming live anyway? I want my fixed Eder

[Voss]

He did feel fairly one note. He joked about pets a few times (and things that weren't actually pets), but beyond that... Eh. I thought his personal quest was going somewhere with a 'big reveal' but it turns out he just doesn't like some kid. Whatever.

[Alexzipse]

Maybe we'll get some sort of romance option for him in the future dlc's. I doubt it, but just maybe. It felt as if a stronger relationship could definitely have happened after finishing pillars 1, at least to me anyways, so I was pretty bummed. It would be nice to see the growing of a deeper relationship between he and the watcher after all this time, to at least have the option for it. 

[Strange_Trees]

Still seems like the good ol' Edér to me. He was there watching over the Watchers unconscious form, having their back when they're zoned out, general amusing interjections in dialog, etc. As for seeming depressed, well in the first game we meet him after his country has been dying in a slow, cruel manner that's pretty much sucking the metaphorical spirit from the population (along side the literal spirits of babies). In Deadfire, the trauma is fresh for him.

 

I haven't finished his personal quest yet, only up to meeting Bearn, but the impression I got was that Edér might be concerned (but uncertain) that the kid might be his. We know Elafa had a Hollowborn baby, but did sleep with Edér before leaving Gilded Vale, since Raedric's men were killing Hollowborn and throwing out the mothers. So far that quest seems to be in the PoE tradition of people not getting closure, but instead dealing with the uncertainty that comes with the lack of closure.

 

As for romance, I'm gonna copy pasta something I wrote in another thread:

 

Interestingly, I recently heard a banter between Edér and Pallegina about the topic of having kids, and he admits he does sort of want them someday, but events have never really quieted down for him. So it got me thinking that from a character standpoint, it really makes sense that the Watcher just might not fit what he had in mind for a partner. If the Saint's War hadn't happened, he likely would have just stayed a farmer (or maybe took up at the temple of Eothas), married a nice girl, started a family, and so on. But the war happened, tore his family apart, and with the Hollowborn crisis, there never seemed to be even a reason to reevaluate ones life goals. He even says, he never really thought about getting emotionally tangled with someone for pretty much 20 years.

 

I get the appeal, Edér is a fantastic character; super nice guy, loves animals, sense of humor, pretty much the whole package. But nothing in PoE1 really stood out as being anything not platonic. I suspect a lot of people were projecting their fanfiction versions of Edér into their expectations for Deadfire (not talking about OP, but I have seen people claiming that him not being interested in the Watcher romantically was somehow 'out of character')

[Midian13]

I was never one that thought romance should have been in the first game.  There is something about the first town your character arrives at having dead people hanging from a tree and children born without souls that kind of sets the tone.  At least for me.  With that said though, out of the three returning characters, Eder would have been the only one I would have considered a romance choice for my character because of their interaction in the first game.  If he wasn't fine, but the story or lack there of behind it is pretty paltry.   

 

Not to mention there is a dialogue option with Xoti where the Watcher can tell her "back off Eder is mine" and choke the priestess with her mind.  My watcher is a female wood elf and a Cipher if that makes any difference.  I know that Eder specifically states the he isn't into men, and isn't attracted to Orlans.  Tekehu isn't the only one who brings up lost potential.  Serafen also does, but its more direct.   It goes:  S:  Had me fooled farmer.  Eder:  How's that?   S:  About the Watcher.  Apparently had her fooled too.   Eder:  Well, I'm not much for foolin'.  Unless it's more like pouring tree sap down someone's breeches.  Really I don't know if the writers are just trolling or what, even Eothas asks Eder to look after the Watcher.  I'm put off by how it's handled, but I know some friends that are pretty upset over the whole thing.  Sending them screenshots of these interactions just sends them into rage mode.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Midian13

[Tamyn]

 

 

Not to mention there is a dialogue option with Xoti where the Watcher can tell her "back off Eder is mine" and choke the priestess with her mind.  My watcher is a female wood elf and a Cipher if that makes any difference. 

 

 

There is? I would have liked to see this.

[Ryz009]

Like I get being disappointed but angry? Naaah.

 

Maybe I'm too used to the husbando/waifu wars but I can't get angry that I don't have a certain romance option. I tend to just appreciate the ones I have. (Except in BG2 case because my only option was a douchecanoe and to have my PC act like a doormat.)

[Midian13]

 

 

 

Not to mention there is a dialogue option with Xoti where the Watcher can tell her "back off Eder is mine" and choke the priestess with her mind.  My watcher is a female wood elf and a Cipher if that makes any difference. 

 

 

There is? I would have liked to see this.

 

 

Right. I wasn't expecting it at all.  When I saw the the option I had to see how it would play out.  My character's relationship with her was minus one at the time.  No cruelty points.  I think her response while you're crushing the air out of her is something like... "I'll stop I didn't know you two were intended."  Xoti will bring it up again though when she hits positive or negative 2 with Eder, and if you chose the back off/choke line you can remind her and she will completely drop it.  Crazy.

[Ryz009]

 

 

 

 

Not to mention there is a dialogue option with Xoti where the Watcher can tell her "back off Eder is mine" and choke the priestess with her mind.  My watcher is a female wood elf and a Cipher if that makes any difference. 

 

 

There is? I would have liked to see this.

 

 

Right. I wasn't expecting it at all.  When I saw the the option I had to see how it would play out.  My character's relationship with her was minus one at the time.  No cruelty points.  I think her response while you're crushing the air out of her is something like... "I'll stop I didn't know you two were intended."  Xoti will bring it up again though when she hits positive or negative 2 with Eder, and if you chose the back off/choke line you can remind her and she will completely drop it.  Crazy.

 

 

Oh god lol at the PC being able to be a crazy thinks they're in a relationship when they're not with Eder. That's too perfect.

[Tamyn]

And here I was thinking throwing her out of the party was the only thing I could do to dissuade her.

[Balbanes]

I think the relationship dialogs may be bugged.  Anyway, my Eder has been kind and supportive, and I've seen 3ish companion dialogs where he says he's got my back and will follow me come hell or high water-- which is not just an expression in Deadfire!  But I'll note my Watcher is still hung up on Iovara and thus made no effort to romance Eder.  Perhaps he keeps his distance if he senses more-than-platonic feelings from the Watcher?

[tela2k]

Like I get being disappointed but angry? Naaah.

 

Maybe I'm too used to the husbando/waifu wars but I can't get angry that I don't have a certain romance option. I tend to just appreciate the ones I have. (Except in BG2 case because my only option was a douchecanoe and to have my PC act like a doormat.)

 

Giggle.

 

Always wondered what people thought of the only romanceable male character.

Personally after the first playthrough I've always randomly murdered Anomen just to rid the world of his whining   

[Balbanes]

 

Like I get being disappointed but angry? Naaah.

 

Maybe I'm too used to the husbando/waifu wars but I can't get angry that I don't have a certain romance option. I tend to just appreciate the ones I have. (Except in BG2 case because my only option was a douchecanoe and to have my PC act like a doormat.)

 

Giggle.

 

Always wondered what people thought of the only romanceable male character.

Personally after the first playthrough I've always randomly murdered Anomen just to rid the world of his whining   

 

 

I started a new party with all characters I hate: Aerie, Anomen, Cernd, Nadia, and Haer'Dalis.  It's been... interesting.

 

Sidenote: Haer'Dalis is really good!  I don't remember Blades being that useful in the original game, but he's tearing #$#% up in EE.

[tela2k]

 

 

 

 

I started a new party with all characters I hate: Aerie, Anomen, Cernd, Nadia, and Haer'Dalis.  It's been... interesting.

 

Sidenote: Haer'Dalis is really good!  I don't remember Blades being that useful in the original game, but he's tearing #$#% up in EE.

 

 

Oh my.. that is... a terrible idea 

I don't think I could ever finish that playthrough. Also you're in for a surprise if you romance Aerie. Just saying.

Haer'Dalis actually is extremely useful, especially when you get the upgraded bard song he's very powerful.

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by tela2k

[Ryz009]

 

 

Like I get being disappointed but angry? Naaah.

 

Maybe I'm too used to the husbando/waifu wars but I can't get angry that I don't have a certain romance option. I tend to just appreciate the ones I have. (Except in BG2 case because my only option was a douchecanoe and to have my PC act like a doormat.)

 

Giggle.

 

Always wondered what people thought of the only romanceable male character.

Personally after the first playthrough I've always randomly murdered Anomen just to rid the world of his whining   

 

 

I started a new party with all characters I hate: Aerie, Anomen, Cernd, Nadia, and Haer'Dalis.  It's been... interesting.

 

Sidenote: Haer'Dalis is really good!  I don't remember Blades being that useful in the original game, but he's tearing #$#% up in EE.

 

 

Yeah I couldn't do it. I tried but I ended up killing everyone myself and picking up some mod companions. Well mod companions and Dorn <3 Like I rather romance a psycho half-orc than Anomen. Smh.