The Ship combat thread

[Anmar]

Thanks to Mr Hoot's post on the first page of this forum and a little practice I have now mastered ship to ship combat and win every fight. It isn't fun.

 

Then I see that so many other people actually enjoy the ship to ship combat and I wonder WTB (what the Berath) is going on but I think I've worked it out.

 

What Obsidian have done is what Sierra did in Space Quest a generation and a half ago and put a different type of game into the main game. It's a risky strategy and Sierra pulled it off (just) by making it funny, Obsidian have added an unpleasant aftertaste to a delicious game format. I go to play it and every time I think am I willing to put up with the grotty to get to the fun. So far it's about half and half - I go to play and either do or don't about half the time.

 

Right now I'm praying for a decent sized island that can get me away from the ships for a while which is strange given that I have ten years Naval service and love boats and the sea.

[Stomno]

 

• Learn how to time your jibes/full stops/repair orders/brace commands to maximum effect.  There is no point in bracing if your enemy still needs two rounds to reload, never do a full stop unless you are firing the next turn, etc. etc.

 

I did this by luck/instinct in my first combat. I really enjoyed it. I know the first battle is not supposed to be difficult, but it felt good

 

 

Excellent post, and this is pretty much what I have ended up doing too. Must say I'm a bit surprised at all the negative feedback about ship-to-ship combat. I like it quite a lot so far. Ships behave differently and this mini-game has more tactics to it than normal combat (too easy).

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's like the new esperanto by Obsidian!

 

PS: I love the ship battles, if they want to improve it, better then!

[Mallard]

I love Deadfire, but at first, I couldn't say the same for ship combat. I hated it!

 

But once I'd upgraded my ship, I began to enjoy the minigame. Like many here, I soon found boarding a ship to be a quick end to any conflict; but refraining from that strategy, it soon became fun to try and sink enemy vessels.

 

Having said all that...there's still the surprise & disappointment one feels upon experiencing ship combat for the first time. When advertised as a main feature of an isometric RPG, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect ship combat, like the rest of the game, to take place in-engine.

 

What if Obsidian retained the current turn-based ship combat, but demonstrated the actions in the game engine, rather than by text?

 

i.e. When combat starts, load a map with the two ships (like the "board a ship" combat map).

 

When a cannon is fired, actually depict a ship's cannon firing. If a crew member is injured, actually show them collapse.

 

Ship movement doesn't have to be animated; simply fade to black when turning or changing distance from the other ship.

 

The text based interface could still be presented when deciding *if* to engage in combat -- so as to avoid constant loading screens every time the player encounters a ship.

 

In the same way the stronghold was improved in the first game with the DLCs, I hope Obsidian will consider improving the ship combat with some of the DLC funds -- it's a fun minigame, but I do think it can (and should) be so much more in a game focused on the sea!

[Farsha]

I hope they'll put DLC funds into actual expanisons.
Just forget ship combat is there and try to ignore it. It's just a side mechanic, they need to fix and add stuff to the actual core gameplay and story, to make the game great.
Ship combat is bad, but spending any funds on it is bad idea. It's side mechanic. Till the cRPG elements and content aren't great they should not spend funds on a stupid mini-game.

[Tigranes]

It would probably be very slow and clunky, because it's not like you could control the ships and move around RTwP.

 

I prefer text so that it can be resolved faster, whether I'm fighting for real or just getting out of there.

 

Ironically, I think it is already too involved - it needed to be kept a lot simpler as a little sideshow, instead of becoming this weird bloated but still too basic system.

[Wormerine]

The current system fits into overall asthetic, mechanics and, most importantly, keeps you in the shoes of the captain. I have no doubt there could be a good minigame with the same feel made, but I would have them focus on what they have and improve upon it, rather than start from scratch. 

I think the ship2ship system could use work, but I am not sure if adding additional mechanics on top of existing ones would solve its problem. Right now, there simply isn't a reason to manouver around. The most advanced strategy I had was having different cannons on different sides and choosing the side I want to face my enemy with based on the range. Improve the ship combat so the already implimented mechanics works well, rather than adding new once which will be just as one sided as the existing ones.

[Fardragon]

I love the space combat minigame.

[Gritino]

I didn't mind it.

 

Could it have been better? Yeah. But Obsidian is working with a budget here.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Gritino

[cokane]

Overall, I'd say the ship combat is good, it's just very crude in its current state. FWIW, they greatly upgraded the keep elements in the original game after the White March, so hopefully they get a chance to do a couple of strong tweaks to ship management. I strongly agree with suggestions to make ship/crew maintenance more costly at higher difficulties.

 

At the very least, the nice thing about ship combat is that you can actually lose. Except seeking out ridiculously high-level regular combat, there's very little risk of losing normal combat encounters. And this is part of the problem with ship-to-ship in my personal experience. It's simply smarter to just rush for boarding, it's so easy to win, and you tend to take less overall damage than you do trying to sink the enemy with cannon fire.

[wRAR]

Overall, I'd say the ship combat is good, it's just never needed and pointless.

[Gritino]

Overall, I'd say the ship combat is good, it's just never needed and pointless.

 

I think it was added to give the player a challenge.

[Celan]

After fumbling around learning the mechanics, I got so most ship battles are trivial. It seems tedious to me, especially when I just want to go do my thing. It's too repetitive.

 

And I can't believe how much ale these jokers can quaff.

[algroth]

Not sure if it's been discussed here yet, but I was quite surprised about Josh mentioning a few streams back that all ship to ship encounters were "handcrafted", considering how most of them roughly play out the same, with maybe some variation regarding ship type, crew numbers and stats. Considering this I would have liked to see a few of these encounters having text or situations unique to themselves, and maybe even a twist or two regarding possible responses or challenges poised by some of these. For example, what if a captain chooses to surrender before letting his ship sink? What if a slaver ship is actually carrying slaves and thus forces you to consider the ideal course of action? What if a captain asks for parley and reveals they're innocent of whatever the "bounty" accuses them of? A bit more variation in this regard would have been nice, I feel.

[Fardragon]

 

Overall, I'd say the ship combat is good, it's just never needed and pointless.

 

I think it was added to give the player a challenge.

 

 

One of the most famous RPGs ever, Final Fantasy VII, is stuffed full of minigames of similar complexity to Deadfire's naval combat. I think it's a homage to that.

 

It's worth noting that most historical naval battles between cannon-armed sailing vessels boiled down to the ships pulling alongside and trading broadsides until one or the other was too badly damaged to continue the fight. Anything more complex wouldn't be remotely authentic.

 

The only thing I would say is that cannoneer skill should affect reload time rather than accuracy. How fast your crew could reload was the real skill that separated the good crews from the bad.

[Lord_Mord]

Does anyone have a clue if sinking the enemy ship has an influence on what/how much loot you get? I'm always boarding, because I'm paranoid.

In principle I like the ship combat. It could be a little more interesting, but I like that nostalgic feel. The storms are even better.

[wRAR]

People said you get less loot.

[Cragnous]

I just wish it would show it with ingame engine. I mean you would still have all the text based options and all but you would see with the in game engine the ship turning and shooting. It would make it far better imo.

[ThacoBell]

People said you get less loot.

People also said you get more. There are conflicting reports.

[Tigranes]

 

When a cannon is fired, actually depict a ship's cannon firing. If a crew member is injured, actually show them collapse.

 

Ship movement doesn't have to be animated; simply fade to black when turning or changing distance from the other ship.

 

I'm not sure how much it adds for me to see a ship on the screen, press left, fade to black, now the ship is 90' rotated.

 

Sometimes the quick and snappy pacing of a low fidelity presentation is far superior.

[Celan]

I'm having trouble installing upgrades. I try to install the Menagerie, it prompts me if I want to add it and I hit "Accept," then nothing happens. Any advice?

[Mazama]

Does anyone have a clue if sinking the enemy ship has an influence on what/how much loot you get? I'm always boarding, because I'm paranoid.

 

In principle I like the ship combat. It could be a little more interesting, but I like that nostalgic feel. The storms are even better. 

 

 

More loot from boarding ships, more crew exp by sinking ships. It doesn't matter much tbh.

[Wompoo]

Enemy Thunders seem to have high damage at 570+ metres (low miss) which is well over their effective range of max 500, is this a bug (ship's cpt was low level yet was doing more damge with Iron Thunders then a higher level cpt with Imperials firing at 550). err new PoTD game

Edited June 8, 2018 by Wompoo

[Larkson]

Enemy Thunders seem to have high damage at 570+ metres (low miss) which is well over their effective range of max 500, is this a bug (ship's cpt was low level yet was doing more damge with Iron Thunders then a higher level cpt with Imperials firing at 550). err new PoTD game

 

I've encountered this. If your own cannoneers are high level you can shoot with just as good accuracy and damage right back at them. 

[Wompoo]

 

Enemy Thunders seem to have high damage at 570+ metres (low miss) which is well over their effective range of max 500, is this a bug (ship's cpt was low level yet was doing more damge with Iron Thunders then a higher level cpt with Imperials firing at 550). err new PoTD game

 

I've encountered this. If your own cannoneers are high level you can shoot with just as good accuracy and damage right back at them. 

 

I just reloaded the fight and my Iron Thunders have higher hit when distance greater then 500 metres, they're out damaging my Imperials at + 500 range.... any way glad its not just me :D

[InsaneCommander]

How can I decrease the number of enemies on the other ship? I fought a combat in the 1.1 Beta and reduced their crew to 1 but by the time I got close enough to board it raised to 3. Is there a way to keep it down?

 

They had 6 defenders, can I reduce that number too?