So how do rogues/assassassins feel in Deadfire

[Infiltrator_SF]

Question for those that played beta/early release builds - how do rogues play out? I know rogue specific mechanics like stealth and mechanics have been reworked, but I wanted impressions from people who actually tried them out in practice. 

I wanted to ask more specifically for assassins because, even after they patched stealth to work individually in PoE1, going for a "backstab" build was pretty underwhelming as it was both difficult to execute, taxing on skills, and ultimately unrewarding. Have they improved that aspect in Deadfire?

[Mannock]

There's a thread about rogues here:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97241-thread-for-those-of-us-who-want-to-roll-a-single-or-multi-roguelets-talk/

 

As I'm sure there are plenty of other threads discussing classes in general. Feel free to look around before posting a new thread.

[Infiltrator_SF]

Sorry, didn't see the thread. 

[master guardian]

you have no choice but to build a backstab build rogue now because there are no other viable options for single class

[darkelf1000]

you have no choice but to build a backstab build rogue now because there are no other viable options for single class

oh...i thought there was monk and fighter and lots of others?...bugger

[anathanielh]

 

you have no choice but to build a backstab build rogue now because there are no other viable options for single class

oh...i thought there was monk and fighter and lots of others?...bugger

He is absolutely wrong. He is just salty that they nerfed the rogues sneak attack skill. Rogues have plenty of utility and are excellent when multiclassed due to the utility (through some cheap/good DoT and debuffs) and mobility they provide

 

Check out their skills by going to the Pillars of eternity Reddit and seeing the ful lalbum of skills.

 

Seriously, he was complaining all of yesterday in threads that weren’t even his own at one point.

Edited May 8, 2018 by anathanielh

[Quillon]

assassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassins are grrrreeat!

 

 

probably.

[Infiltrator_SF]

assassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassins are grrrreeat!

 

 

probably.

 

Depends how big the modifiers are. I mean they get "increased" pen/crit/dmg but how much that is? And how big is the damage received penalty? 

[master guardian]

 

 

you have no choice but to build a backstab build rogue now because there are no other viable options for single class

oh...i thought there was monk and fighter and lots of others?...bugger

He is absolutely wrong. He is just salty that they nerfed the rogues sneak attack skill. Rogues have plenty of utility and are excellent when multiclassed due to the utility (through some cheap/good DoT and debuffs) and mobility they provide

 

Check out their skills by going to the Pillars of eternity Reddit and seeing the ful lalbum of skills.

 

Seriously, he was complaining all of yesterday in threads that weren’t even his own at one point.

 

F off

 

rogues are weaker in deadfire then POE1 easily

 

- no reckless assualt (-6 accuracey and 20% damage i think)

- sneak nerfed to 30%

- Deathblows nerfed to 50%

- No accuracey stacking talents anymore so no more critting like POE1

 

And are you waiting for it.............listen to this one:

 

- Rogues get only 1 high level ability and all it does is let you make an attack then go invisible for 5 secs

 

 

 AND CHANTERS CAN SUMMON FRICKEN DRAGONS 

 

YEP THATS RIGHT DRAGONS!!

Edited May 8, 2018 by master guardian

[cokane]

 

 

 

you have no choice but to build a backstab build rogue now because there are no other viable options for single class

oh...i thought there was monk and fighter and lots of others?...bugger

He is absolutely wrong. He is just salty that they nerfed the rogues sneak attack skill. Rogues have plenty of utility and are excellent when multiclassed due to the utility (through some cheap/good DoT and debuffs) and mobility they provide

 

Check out their skills by going to the Pillars of eternity Reddit and seeing the ful lalbum of skills.

 

Seriously, he was complaining all of yesterday in threads that weren’t even his own at one point.

 

F off

 

rogues are weaker in deadfire then POE1 easily

 

u seem mad

[master guardian]

well why dont you add some intelligent input instead of just giving comments like

 

" stupid"   " mad"

 

 

good one

[CrazyL3opold]

I‘ve never seen such childish behaviour before here... If you think rogue is too weak now, there might be one simple reason: you are too bad for playing it. Sorry I have to say so but they are everything else than underpowered. Of course chanter seems to be stronger, especially skald IMO but for real: if you wanna be OP play on “easy” or lower and I promise you: even you can have fun playing rogue :3

[Infiltrator_SF]

So wait, rogues really are weak as a single class if all they get is that invis on hit talent over a multiclass, right?

[Lamppost in Winter]

- sneak nerfed to 30%

 

 

 

Sneak Attack scales with Power Level now. We don't know yet what the upper limit on it with respect to multi vs single class, though.

[CrazyL3opold]

No they are not weak. That talent can in fights later be awesome as you lose agro and can reposition. 5 seconds should be enough if you train a bit.

[Ganrich]

I can't say for sure that rogues are or are not weaker in Deadfire vs the original game, but I can say that (which I've repeated a few times) their interrupt is top choice. Also, interrupting casters is very important in Deadfire. A caster can delete a squishy pretty easily with a couple different spells. A rogue can teleport in and interrupt with 2 Guile cost. It's potent. Very potent.

 

Interrupt actually stops the spell in Deadfire. It doesn't increase recovery like in PoE1. If you are interrupted casting your Chill Fog, and you only had 1 level 1 spell available to cast... Well, you lost that level 1 cast because of interrupt. Since Priests have their main heal at level 1 their healing can be stifled hard, it is similar with Druids, and with Wizards. If you know what the icons above their heads indicate you can swing battles fairly easily. Pay attention and learn what those pesky casters are doing. Then shut them down.

 

An assassin could initiate on that caster and delete him at the beginning of a fight. So, they are fine. They are viable in all difficulties.

 

Are they the best class in the game? No. Are they dead weight? Absolutely not. They can be the deciding factor in a fight by stopping a heal, MM, or what have you. That interrupt then hobbles the target, and they have 15 seconds (at 10 intellect) of +30% damage on their attacks. If you habe a higherintellect that time gets longer. Power Level also increases duration. There are also passive talents that do the same.

 

I am also of the mind that they have the best single target Blind in the game since you can upgrade it so that every hit after the blind is placed adds a stacking deflection malus to the target. I dont know if there is a cap to the deflection malus, but two party members hitting that target usually does the trick. It's called Confounding Blind. This costs 2 Guile IIRC. Totally worth it in my eyes.

 

Anyway, rogues have two issues. 1) They dont have a lot of high level abilities, and 2) Sneak attack was nerfed in the launch release from 50 to 30%. Their low level abilities are top notch imho. Those abilities are better than their PoE1 counter parts imho. They get good toys at low levels. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Ganrich

[Riftis]

So wait, rogues really are weak as a single class if all they get is that invis on hit talent over a multiclass, right?

Rogues sneak attack was changed from a flat 50% to 30% that scales up with power level. We don't know how much it'll scale yet, but there's still a case to be made for single class rogues just cause they'll get a more powerful sneak attack than a multi rogue. Take everything you read on the forums with a pinch of salt cause the game isn't released yet and we can only speculate about the balance of a lot of things.

 

Just play what you want I say.  

Edited May 8, 2018 by Riftis

[anathanielh]

 

 

 

you have no choice but to build a backstab build rogue now because there are no other viable options for single class

oh...i thought there was monk and fighter and lots of others?...bugger

He is absolutely wrong. He is just salty that they nerfed the rogues sneak attack skill. Rogues have plenty of utility and are excellent when multiclassed due to the utility (through some cheap/good DoT and debuffs) and mobility they provide

 

Check out their skills by going to the Pillars of eternity Reddit and seeing the ful lalbum of skills.

 

Seriously, he was complaining all of yesterday in threads that weren’t even his own at one point.

F off

 

rogues are weaker in deadfire then POE1 easily

 

- no reckless assualt (-6 accuracey and 20% damage i think)

- sneak nerfed to 30%

- Deathblows nerfed to 50%

- No accuracey stacking talents anymore so no more critting like POE1

 

And are you waiting for it.............listen to this one:

 

- Rogues get only 1 high level ability and all it does is let you make an attack then go invisible for 5 secs

 

 

AND CHANTERS CAN SUMMON FRICKEN DRAGONS

 

YEP THATS RIGHT DRAGONS!!

If you look at only a single class rogue and ignore all of their subclasses, sure they are weaker, but claiming they are “not viable” anymore is just false.

 

Rogues role in this game is no longer just flat out damage, even though it says so on the tin (The Trickster and Streetfighter classes probide excellent bonuses compared to their maluses in my opinion. Even the assassin class can provide any class with bonus penetration and crit damage at the start of a fight, not to mention the 15% increase to damage dealt/taken which is awesome for a backliner)

 

Rogues may not get the most end-game skills for a single class, but they are not useless. I still recommend that they be multiclassed, as I stated in my previous post, but they are a fine class.

 

If you want more damage, sure there are other options, but rogues are still completely viable, even on POTD

[Clerith]

Disregarding the power level (although considering how rogues were arguably the weakest class in Pillars 1, there's only the way up for them), with the reworked stealth cones and detection system rogues should feel much better to play. It also looks like you have a lot more combat invisi too.

[freche]

 

 

 

you have no choice but to build a backstab build rogue now because there are no other viable options for single class

oh...i thought there was monk and fighter and lots of others?...bugger

He is absolutely wrong. He is just salty that they nerfed the rogues sneak attack skill. Rogues have plenty of utility and are excellent when multiclassed due to the utility (through some cheap/good DoT and debuffs) and mobility they provide

 

Check out their skills by going to the Pillars of eternity Reddit and seeing the ful lalbum of skills.

 

Seriously, he was complaining all of yesterday in threads that weren’t even his own at one point.

 

F off

 

rogues are weaker in deadfire then POE1 easily

 

- no reckless assualt (-6 accuracey and 20% damage i think)

- sneak nerfed to 30%

- Deathblows nerfed to 50%

- No accuracey stacking talents anymore so no more critting like POE1

 

And are you waiting for it.............listen to this one:

 

- Rogues get only 1 high level ability and all it does is let you make an attack then go invisible for 5 secs

 

 

 AND CHANTERS CAN SUMMON FRICKEN DRAGONS 

 

YEP THATS RIGHT DRAGONS!!

 

 

You know you are comparing two different games, correct?

 

How about discussing the imbalance of rogues once you actually played Deadfire? Their current stats might very well be quite balanced compared to other classes in Deadfire.

[Michael_Galt]

I can't say for sure that rogues are or are not weaker in Deadfire vs the original game, but I can say that (which I've repeated a few times) their interrupt is top choice. Also, interrupting casters is very important in Deadfire. A caster can delete a squishy pretty easily with a couple different spells. A rogue can teleport in and interrupt with 2 Guile cost. It's potent. Very potent.

 

Interrupt actually stops the spell in Deadfire. It doesn't increase recovery like in PoE1. If you are interrupted casting your Chill Fog, and you only had 1 level 1 spell available to cast... Well, you lost that level 1 cast because of interrupt. Since Priests have their main heal at level 1 their healing can be stifled hard, it is similar with Druids, and with Wizards. If you know what the icons above their heads indicate you can swing battles fairly easily. Pay attention and learn what those pesky casters are doing. Then shut them down.

 

An assassin could initiate on that caster and delete him at the beginning of a fight. So, they are fine. They are viable in all difficulties.

 

Are they the best class in the game? No. Are they dead weight? Absolutely not. They can be the deciding factor in a fight by stopping a heal, MM, or what have you. That interrupt then hobbles the target, and they have 15 seconds (at 10 intellect) of +30% damage on their attacks. If you habe a higherintellect that time gets longer. Power Level also increases duration. There are also passive talents that do the same.

 

I am also of the mind that they have the best single target Blind in the game since you can upgrade it so that every hit after the blind is placed adds a stacking deflection malus to the target. I dont know if there is a cap to the deflection malus, but two party members hitting that target usually does the trick. It's called Confounding Blind. This costs 2 Guile IIRC. Totally worth it in my eyes.

 

Anyway, rogues have two issues. 1) They dont have a lot of high level abilities, and 2) Sneak attack was nerfed in the launch release from 50 to 30%. Their low level abilities are top notch imho. Those abilities are better than their PoE1 counter parts imho. They get good toys at low levels. Nothing wrong with that.

 

This makes me happy. I built my ranger in PoE 1 to be just that- an interrupt king.  His interrupt was at nearly 40.  My plan is to make him a ranger/cipher this time, and focus (pun intended on making him an even bigger interrupt king.  Primary role is to remove those squishy targets in the backline (starting with physical attacks and then moving to psychic attacks as he builds up focus), and once those are neutralized, to then end the remaining enemy fighters.  If there are no squishies??  Then he is going to hobble and flank the %$&@ out of the strongest enemy frontline fighter and make sure that they can't get to our backlines and/or launch any effective attacks.