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master guardian

Thread for those of us who want to roll a single or multi rogue....lets talk

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Ok

 

Im playing either a rogue single or multi my first playthrough

 

Im trying to do a bit of research on rogues before tommorrow. So far some concerns I have are:

 

- They have nerfed Sneak attack to 20% for both single and multi class rogues. This is a huge drop from the first game of 50%. I think they have done his because multi-class rogues would be to powerful with a 50% sneak attack. I am concerned 20% is to low in fact im nearly 100% certain its to low. Sneak attack is the rogues primary ability and at 20% it just isn't noticeable enough i think. What are eveyones thought on this?? Does anyone have anymore information on this eg does it now scale with level?

 

- Reckless Assault is gone and so are weapon specialization talents that stack accuracy. Also EVERY class now starts with 20 accuracy. In POE1 rogues started with 30.  I consider all this a frickin huge nerf to a rogue because they use to crit like crazy in the first game i suspect no more.

 

- they also nerfed dual weild to 15% speed bonus instead of 20%. This will effect a rogue perhaps more then other classes because rogues have alot of affliction applying full attacks

 

- Apparently Rogues now have an increased interrupt on all attacks? is this true? is this a passive ability you have to select or does every rogue come inherit with it

 

I think OBS have over nerfed the sneak attack to balance multiclass but have weakend a single class rogue to much.

 

Can anyone see or now of any better ways to roll a rogue, eg what are there strengths that you have found?

Edited by master guardian

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Pretty sure they did it because 50% extra damage is absurd.

 

 

guys if you want to chime in please add some intelligent input instead of just giving your opinion and saying things like "stupid" "absurd" ect..............

 

comments like this are no help to anyone and just steer the thread into immature banter

 

thanks

Edited by master guardian
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Pretty sure they did it because 50% extra damage is absurd.

 

guys if you want to chime in please add some intelligent input instead of just giving your opinion and saying things like "stupid" "absurd" ect..............

 

comments like this are no help to anyone and just steer the thread into immature banter

 

thanks

Heh

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Play as an assassin? Believe that bumps it up closer to PoE 1 version of a rogue.

 

JSawyer has said that while yes, single classed rogues feel underpowered, they are one of the bests to multiclass with. For damage output you can do a Mindstalker (Rogue/Cipher). Soul whip will stack with sneak attack. 

 

I mained a rogue in PoE 1 and enjoyed it, and am probably going to play one in this game as well. Just multiclassed is all. Plenty of builds with it. 

 

I don't think you'll get too much love for rogues on these forums, they seem like the black sheep of classes here for some reason. 

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I feel like they could have at least made it 25%. 20% seems like a slap in the face. It's what the Trickster's "significantly reduced" sneak attack bonus used to be.

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I was thinking about playing a Mindstalker (Cipher/Rogue) but I'm not familiar with the class enough to make a sincere commentary yet. For those who are more knowledgeable about these things do you think that said build is viable for most things? I see the word nerf and get rather nervous. Nothing worse than being forty hours in and having a character slowly lose viability because of various reasons.


Yes! We have no bananas.

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am recalling this topic has been discussed

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/96769-rogues-do-not-suck/?p=1993983

 

9th level talents, active and passive, is limited for rogue, but up to tier 7 such options is good, and tier 8 is actual nice as well.  

 

if not for fact o' a giant eothas possessed statue being central to the deadfire plot, or first run o' deadfire would likely be an orlan, deadfire, drifter, rogue... single class. one o' the annoying questions with every party dynamic we consider is: who gets stuck being the trap monkey?  play as a rogue makes such a question a bit easier. drifter + rogue starts us with 3 points in insight, which we see as a big potential positive. etc.  see linked thread.

 

rogues is actual strong as a class, and in spite o' curious pointlessness o' the single 9th tier active ability, we nevertheless would likely single class as a rogue as we see few drawbacks to playing a trap disarming interruption machine with nice dialogue options and particular setting relevance.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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If you only look at rogue ability tree, it looks ok. Then u compare it with tree of fighter barb and monk it’s a bit lackluster.

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I'm mad at rogues, because all the assassin backstab stealth builds made Obs nerf Flames of Devotion  ;(

 

Well... to be honest FoD worked well with any multiclassed martial class.

Edited by z_liquid

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I was thinking about playing a Mindstalker (Cipher/Rogue) but I'm not familiar with the class enough to make a sincere commentary yet. For those who are more knowledgeable about these things do you think that said build is viable for most things? I see the word nerf and get rather nervous. Nothing worse than being forty hours in and having a character slowly lose viability because of various reasons.

 

For most things, yes. Obviously, like a regular Cipher, enemies who are immune to your debuffs are an issue. But a lot of the spells have become quick casts.

 

Also, starting a fight by sneaking up to an enemy and using puppetmaster? Pretty good opening move.

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It seems like Obsidian is pushing rogues into one-size-fits-all backstabbing mold. I had planned a non-backstabbing Swashbuckler but since they nerfed Disciplined Strikes and Sneak Attack I will have to adapt him into more of a backstabbing build, otherwise he just wont be causing much damage. Sad because that wasn't how I thought of the character at all.

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It seems like Obsidian is pushing rogues into one-size-fits-all backstabbing mold. I had planned a non-backstabbing Swashbuckler but since they nerfed Disciplined Strikes and Sneak Attack I will have to adapt him into more of a backstabbing build, otherwise he just wont be causing much damage. Sad because that wasn't how I thought of the character at all.

yeah thats what i kind of thought.......

 

The only viable rogue build i see now is one that takes alot of talents like escape, shadow beyond, invis, smoke cloud and then come in and backstab..............

 

im not really seeing any other alternative route

 

anyone no more on the interrupt thing??

Edited by master guardian

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I'm planning a Cipher (Beguiler)/Rogue (no subclass) and had a good time with it in the beta.


Aloth massages his temples, shaking his head.

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It seems like Obsidian is pushing rogues into one-size-fits-all backstabbing mold. I had planned a non-backstabbing Swashbuckler but since they nerfed Disciplined Strikes and Sneak Attack I will have to adapt him into more of a backstabbing build, otherwise he just wont be causing much damage. Sad because that wasn't how I thought of the character at all.

You won't know exact damage numbers until you start playing the game, mate. Try the game before you give up on your character, at the very least.

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Can anyone see or now of any better ways to roll a rogue, eg what are there strengths that you have found?

 

For starters if sneak attack is this much worse worse then the actives that cause status effects are correspondingly less meaningful (most of which already were not game-changing, to put it lightly). 

 

 Backstab is now the key to everything, so assassins suddenly become even more attractive. Finishing/Devastating Blow are also must-haves. If you want crits, consider single wield and Hearth Orlan, especially if you aren't multiclassing.

Edited by Mack

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It seems like Obsidian is pushing rogues into one-size-fits-all backstabbing mold. I had planned a non-backstabbing Swashbuckler but since they nerfed Disciplined Strikes and Sneak Attack I will have to adapt him into more of a backstabbing build, otherwise he just wont be causing much damage. Sad because that wasn't how I thought of the character at all.

You won't know exact damage numbers until you start playing the game, mate. Try the game before you give up on your character, at the very least.

 

 

I haven't given up on it, I'm thinking through adjustments. This is a big change with a number of implications. For instance, I was planning to use a fast, accurate weapon, but now it looks like backstabbing is king and good backstabbing wants high base damage. Without the additional accuracy from the weapon I have to think about raising perception, etc.

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@the interrupt thing:

 

Some abilities in the game have the added bonus of interrupting. Most of them only interrupt on crit while I believe most (all?) rogue abilities interrupt on hit.

In short if your rogue stands in front of a caster that caster doesn't get to do a whole lot of casting.

 

 

@Rogues in general:

Their true strength lies in multiclassing imho. The fact that you can reach deathblows while being multiclassed gives every martial + rogue class a huge boost at the max level. I think people are sleeping a bit on persistent distraction. Combined with the guardian stance (so fighter multiclassed) means you engage a whole bunch of enemies, take ~20% less damage and put the distracted debuff on everybody (-5 PER & flanked so: -10 deflection -1 armor). This debuff should in theory also be enough to enable your own deathblow attacks.

 

Or pick barbarian, insane action speed and a casters worst nightmare (interrupt on crit, interrupt on every rogue skill, debuff shouts).

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Does backstab work for both for both dual weilding and two handed weapons?

 

I have heard that it foavours two handed weapons much more?

 

Where is boerer when you need him!!!

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It seems like Obsidian is pushing rogues into one-size-fits-all backstabbing mold. I had planned a non-backstabbing Swashbuckler but since they nerfed Disciplined Strikes and Sneak Attack I will have to adapt him into more of a backstabbing build, otherwise he just wont be causing much damage. Sad because that wasn't how I thought of the character at all.

yeah thats what i kind of thought.......

 

The only viable rogue build i see now is one that takes alot of talents like escape, shadow beyond, invis, smoke cloud and then come in and backstab..............

 

im not really seeing any other alternative route

 

anyone no more on the interrupt thing??

 

 

They made most rogue actives interrupt on hit in beta 4. It's a nice perk, though by mid-game I expect many or most enemies to have at least one layer of concentration.

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@the interrupt thing:

 

Some abilities in the game have the added bonus of interrupting. Most of them only interrupt on crit while I believe most (all?) rogue abilities interrupt on hit.

In short if your rogue stands in front of a caster that caster doesn't get to do a whole lot of casting.

 

 

@Rogues in general:

Their true strength lies in multiclassing imho. The fact that you can reach deathblows while being multiclassed gives every martial + rogue class a huge boost at the max level. I think people are sleeping a bit on persistent distraction. Combined with the guardian stance (so fighter multiclassed) means you engage a whole bunch of enemies, take ~20% less damage and put the distracted debuff on everybody (-5 PER & flanked so: -10 deflection -1 armor). This debuff should in theory also be enough to enable your own deathblow attacks.

 

Or pick barbarian, insane action speed and a casters worst nightmare (interrupt on crit, interrupt on every rogue skill, debuff shouts).

so are you saying a rogue has increased interupts on ALL attacks or just when a rogue uses ability attacks like blind, weaken , hobble ect............

 

also do we have any official word from obs on this?

 

and anyone now if backstab is good for both dual weild and two handed style?

Edited by master guardian

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@the interrupt thing:

 

Some abilities in the game have the added bonus of interrupting. Most of them only interrupt on crit while I believe most (all?) rogue abilities interrupt on hit.

In short if your rogue stands in front of a caster that caster doesn't get to do a whole lot of casting.

 

 

@Rogues in general:

Their true strength lies in multiclassing imho. The fact that you can reach deathblows while being multiclassed gives every martial + rogue class a huge boost at the max level. I think people are sleeping a bit on persistent distraction. Combined with the guardian stance (so fighter multiclassed) means you engage a whole bunch of enemies, take ~20% less damage and put the distracted debuff on everybody (-5 PER & flanked so: -10 deflection -1 armor). This debuff should in theory also be enough to enable your own deathblow attacks.

 

Or pick barbarian, insane action speed and a casters worst nightmare (interrupt on crit, interrupt on every rogue skill, debuff shouts).

so are you saying a rogue has increased interupts on ALL attacks or just when a rogue uses ability attacks like blind, weaken , hobble ect............

 

also do we have any official word from obs on this?

 

and anyone now if backstab is good for both dual weild and two handed style?

 

 

Q1: only when u use an ability, but it's fine since cripple hit only cost 1 guile.

 

Q2: in beta, two handed.

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@the interrupt thing:

 

Some abilities in the game have the added bonus of interrupting. Most of them only interrupt on crit while I believe most (all?) rogue abilities interrupt on hit.

In short if your rogue stands in front of a caster that caster doesn't get to do a whole lot of casting.

 

 

@Rogues in general:

Their true strength lies in multiclassing imho. The fact that you can reach deathblows while being multiclassed gives every martial + rogue class a huge boost at the max level. I think people are sleeping a bit on persistent distraction. Combined with the guardian stance (so fighter multiclassed) means you engage a whole bunch of enemies, take ~20% less damage and put the distracted debuff on everybody (-5 PER & flanked so: -10 deflection -1 armor). This debuff should in theory also be enough to enable your own deathblow attacks.

 

Or pick barbarian, insane action speed and a casters worst nightmare (interrupt on crit, interrupt on every rogue skill, debuff shouts).

so are you saying a rogue has increased interupts on ALL attacks or just when a rogue uses ability attacks like blind, weaken , hobble ect............

 

also do we have any official word from obs on this?

 

and anyone now if backstab is good for both dual weild and two handed style?

 

 

Q1: only when u use an ability, but it's fine since cripple hit only cost 1 guile.

 

Q2: in beta, two handed.

 

this is fckd

 

the way i see it im forced into doing a single class rogue build built like this:

 

- take all the invis abilities eg, shadow, escape, clouds

- backstab ability to utilize above invis abilities

- must use two handed style instead of dual wield because of backstab

- Deathblows works but got nerfed to 50% instead of 100%

 

im not really seeing any other viable builds that can compare to other classes in terms of power

 

and is backstab better with Two handed instead of dual wield becasue only one of the dual weild weapons will apply it or because of the way they scale the damage?

Edited by master guardian

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