Priests / Paladins dispositions

[Nemesis7884]

Does the disposition system still work the same as in pillars 1 and are the favored/dissliked behaviors still the same for priests and paladins?

[Wiseude]

Would also like to know Since I may or may not make a bleakwalker/devoted (but don't want to be evil)

[Boeroer]

Yes, it seems so. The favored/condemned dispositions are still the same.

[omgFIREBALLS]

And if the paladin/priest isn't the watcher, we still get the gradual increase through levels rather than through dispositions?

[Boeroer]

How else should it work? Companions don't gain dispositions via dialogue because the MC does the talking and makes the decisions.

[omgFIREBALLS]

I'll tell you how else it should work: not at all. Unless my memory is failing me, early in PoE1 you either used your paladin as the Watcher or forgot about Faith and Conviction entirely. The level growth was added later. While I doubt they would revert to Watcher or nothing, I'd still like to be sure what the mechanic is for merc paladins.

[Boeroer]

It scales with level.

 

Or so I strongly believe. Everything else would make not much sense. But in the beta it's kind of weird: lvl1 to 9 hirelings get a fixed amount of +13 to all defenses with Faith and Conviction while MC lvl 6 to 9 always gets 12.5. I guess in the beta it's just hard-coded.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[Octo1]

In the beta, I noticed the mercenary priest's radiance getting a bonus from the Watcher's dispositions.

[Tommy1984]

It scales with level.

 

Or so I strongly believe. Everything else would make not much sense. But in the beta it's kind of weird: lvl1 to 9 hirelings get a fixed amount of +13 to all defenses with Faith and Conviction while MC lvl 6 to 9 always gets 12.5. I guess in the beta it's just hard-coded.

 

For info: in the beta on the Watcher the highest bonus from Faith and Conviction + Deep Faith I got was +20 to all defenses (got this as Goldpact Knight and Kind Wayfarer). But I don't know if this is the maximum or if it can get even higher.

[Ciphys]

Are all the dispositions exactly the same as PoE1 though?

Specifically looking at etc Diplomatic, which is a negative disposition of the bleak walker in PoE1. Are there still diplomatic conversation prompts in the game? Or have they been shifted over to include the passive skill "Diplomacy"?. I know that Bleak walkers still have the benevolent disposition as a negative (because I have seen faith and conviction get reduced after picking several benevolent conversation options in the beta), but I am a bit unsure about the rest. Might just have been me focusing a lot more on builds and combat in the beta rather than conversation dispositions though. 

So: any concrete observed changes to the available dispositions? 

[omgFIREBALLS]

Are all the dispositions exactly the same as PoE1 though?

 

Specifically looking at etc Diplomatic, which is a negative disposition of the bleak walker in PoE1. Are there still diplomatic conversation prompts in the game? Or have they been shifted over to include the passive skill "Diplomacy"?

I'd imagine your Diplomacy skill determines how well the approach will work or indeed if you can even attempt it, while the act itself will probably increase your Diplomatic disposition.

[Enoch]

Are all the dispositions exactly the same as PoE1 though?

 

Specifically looking at etc Diplomatic, which is a negative disposition of the bleak walker in PoE1. Are there still diplomatic conversation prompts in the game? Or have they been shifted over to include the passive skill "Diplomacy"?. I know that Bleak walkers still have the benevolent disposition as a negative (because I have seen faith and conviction get reduced after picking several benevolent conversation options in the beta), but I am a bit unsure about the rest. Might just have been me focusing a lot more on builds and combat in the beta rather than conversation dispositions though. 

 

So: any concrete observed changes to the available dispositions? 

"Deceptive" is now "Shady." 

 

The idea being that a truly "deceptive" individual would not have a reputation as such.  Pillars 1 had the occasional interaction where an NPC observed the PC's high "Deceptive" score, and responded with something like "I don't trust you because you're such a practiced liar"-- weirdly leading to practiced liars being the worst liars.  

 

Switching the rep to "Shady" aims to fix this, although I suspect this might break a little bit when you consider Priests of Wael or Skaen.  Successful deception would presumably evidence the strength of such faiths.  By shifting to "Shady," though, Deadfire risks rewarding only those deceptions that get caught. 

[Gromnir]

 

Are all the dispositions exactly the same as PoE1 though?

 

Specifically looking at etc Diplomatic, which is a negative disposition of the bleak walker in PoE1. Are there still diplomatic conversation prompts in the game? Or have they been shifted over to include the passive skill "Diplomacy"?. I know that Bleak walkers still have the benevolent disposition as a negative (because I have seen faith and conviction get reduced after picking several benevolent conversation options in the beta), but I am a bit unsure about the rest. Might just have been me focusing a lot more on builds and combat in the beta rather than conversation dispositions though. 

 

So: any concrete observed changes to the available dispositions? 

"Deceptive" is now "Shady." 

 

The idea being that a truly "deceptive" individual would not have a reputation as such.  Pillars 1 had the occasional interaction where an NPC observed the PC's high "Deceptive" score, and responded with something like "I don't trust you because you're such a practiced liar"-- weirdly leading to practiced liars being the worst liars.  

 

Switching the rep to "Shady" aims to fix this, although I suspect this might break a little bit when you consider Priests of Wael or Skaen.  Successful deception would presumably evidence the strength of such faiths.  By shifting to "Shady," though, Deadfire risks rewarding only those deceptions that get caught. 

 

 

in perhaps the most ironic example o' obsidian's awkward implementation o' deceptive in poe, the only wael priest specific dialogue(s) available to a pc in the game were accessible only with a honest disposition o' at least 2.

 

when we brought this curious example to the developer's attention, they did not initial see a conflict.

 

am suspecting much as poe writers were having varied interpretations o' what were the qualities o' a watcher, the deceptive disposition had a fluid definition.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[The Sharmat]

How else should it work? Companions don't gain dispositions via dialogue because the MC does the talking and makes the decisions.

I know it doesn't work this way and it would probably be a nightmare to implement, but that WOULD be a logical outgrowth of the relationship system.

[Boeroer]

Ah... maybe you're right. I didn't think of relationships.

[Ganrich]

I'd be worried that it would require gaming your conversations to optimize disposition. I'd rather conversations and relationships play very little into combat effectiveness. To each their own, though.

[The Sharmat]

There was a lot of that in KOTOR 2 and it wasn't even in the master manipulator way. It was just "make sure this NPC is here for this random sidequest". Getting Bao Dur's whole story required him just happening to see you fix a bike.

 

I think that's fine to an extent but you need way more instances of potential companion interaction than KOTOR 2's development allowed to make it work and prevent really transparent metagaming. Hell, Mandalore didn't even actually have enough opportunities to influence him in the released game to get all his dialogue.

[Ganrich]

There was a lot of that in KOTOR 2 and it wasn't even in the master manipulator way. It was just "make sure this NPC is here for this random sidequest". Getting Bao Dur's whole story required him just happening to see you fix a bike.

 

I think that's fine to an extent but you need way more instances of potential companion interaction than KOTOR 2's development allowed to make it work and prevent really transparent metagaming. Hell, Mandalore didn't even actually have enough opportunities to influence him in the released game to get all his dialogue.

Perhaps I'm not understanding the idea. So, I'll use Pallegina's story arc from PoE1 as an example of what I thought was being discussed.

 

So, some PoE spoilers incoming.

 

You could talk her into following orders and betray her principles and because she is adhering to her Order's code she gains disposition. Or you can tell her she is right to disobey her Order, and by doing so she loses disposition. If this was how it worked players would feel compelled to do what is best for a gameplay advantage vs just talking to her in a way that fits the way they designed "their" character.

 

I dont want this.

[The Sharmat]

I was talking about companions' own interjections influencing their disposition, as if they were a player. Including them just starting stuff with NPCs.

[Ganrich]

I was talking about companions' own interjections influencing their disposition, as if they were a player. Including them just starting stuff with NPCs.

I would have no issue with that, but they would habe two sets of lines for some companions. Pallegina would habe one set if she is a kind wayfarer and another if still working for old order (name escapes me for some reason).

 

In the end, the easiest way to do it is by level for companions and player made mercs. That has very little issue, and it can be tweaked for balance.

[The Sharmat]

Oh yeah it would be hugely costly to implement for the amount of content we'd get, I'm sure. It would just be kind of neat.