Does it make sense to multi class two casters?

[Madscientist]

I can think of many different ways to combine two martial classes and martial class+caster.

But do you know a good combination of caster+caster?

 

When I look at wizards, priests, ciphers and druids, many of their spells seem similar and losing the top level spells seems to be a bigger disadvantage than having more low level spells.

Druids and priest have healing, buff, debuff and damage spells themselves, so a single class covers all areas. Wizards and ciphers lack healing, but their top level spells are also very powerful.

 

Only exception would be the chanter ( if you consider him as caster ) because half of his "spells" are passive their active spell resource recovers over time. So a chanter/priest could be the ultimate party buff machine.

 

 

At the moment it seems like we are in the same direction as NWN2:

Rule of thumb: multi class martials, single class casters.

[malchiorita]

Well, in d&d universe it had pros and cons but it wasnt a bad idea per se, cause there were many sinergies between spells (spell sequencer, contingency, dimensional door+harm, the possibility to use both scrolls etc etc) but you gave up high level spells that were very very powerful...

 

Cant talk for poe universe but i can imagine, let's say a wizard druid, to be not that terrible cause it would give you more damaging spells per encounter, self buffs to use while shapeshifted, more buff/debuff options and some healing... That could leave more room for another non/caster in the party maybe?

Edited April 27, 2018 by malchiorita

[Boeroer]

I highly depends which spells we will get at higher levels and how good the ones until PL7 are. Because it can be benefical to be able to spam nearly twice as many nukes/CCs if they are a) fast casts and b) very good for their Power Level.

 

For example I can imagine a Fury/Evoker can spam a lot more damaging fire spells in an encounter than a single Evoker or Fury (given the encounter is long enough) - and the elemental abilites like Scion of Flame work for all fire spells, so you could totally focus on fire spells without taking any spells/abilities you'd rather not pick (but are forced to because a single class tree doesn't give you a lot of choices).

 

But nobody (here) can say if this is more powerful in the end. Does a PL9-spell cause twice the damage of two PL7-spells? And so on.

 

I generally agree that it's tougher to come up with caster/caster comboes that seem to make a lot of sense than with martial/martial or martial/caster combos.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

I can think of many different ways to combine two martial classes and martial class+caster.

But do you know a good combination of caster+caster?

 

When I look at wizards, priests, ciphers and druids, many of their spells seem similar and losing the top level spells seems to be a bigger disadvantage than having more low level spells.

Druids and priest have healing, buff, debuff and damage spells themselves, so a single class covers all areas. Wizards and ciphers lack healing, but their top level spells are also very powerful.

 

Only exception would be the chanter ( if you consider him as caster ) because half of his "spells" are passive their active spell resource recovers over time. So a chanter/priest could be the ultimate party buff machine.

 

 

At the moment it seems like we are in the same direction as NWN2:

Rule of thumb: multi class martials, single class casters.

 

Low level, no;

High level, I think yes but i'm not so sure.

 

At low level your spells are of low level, low pl, so pure level caster is better.

 

But when u at lvl 20, you can get both spells to lvl7, if you are a wizard/priest, u have 4x6+2x2 = 28 spells. a pure wizard will have 2x9 = 18 spells. So a caster/caster multiclass is quite decent in late game.

[Skazz]

I've been thinking about that too. Thanks a lot, Boeroer.

 

How about Chanter/Wizard? Would that make sense in any context?

[Boeroer]

Not too much I believe. But I didn't think a lot about it.

 

Maybe Beckoner/Druid or /Priest to heal/buff summons or so?

Edited April 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[Yenkaz]

Even for caster/wizard warrior, you have to consider: Would a high level cipher not excel just as well, if not better at the magic warrior gimmick?

 

I wonder how good the high level warrior abilities are. They have to have something quite powerful up there to justify not multiclassing.

[Ascaloth]

I actually just theorycrafted a combination that seems to work... on paper at least, I don't have access to beta;

 

Nature Godlike Transmuter/Lifegiver Sorcerer.

 

Inherent PL bonuses for both aspects of the multiclass, further enhanced by the Nature Godlike's racial with a simple casting of Nature's Balm. Transmuter spells are some of the best magic CC in the game. Rejuvenation spells are some of the best healing spells in the game as well, especially when supercharged with the Lifegiver Spiritshift. And speaking of Spiritshift, it's almost like this Sorcerer is a super-Druid with two Spiritshifts suited for different circumstances; Lifegiver Spiritshift for supercharging heals, and Form of the Fearsome Brute for when it's clobberin' time.

 

Last but not least, the Transmuter/Lifegiver is also capable of nuking. How? Through a very specific sequence; first, take Spirit of Decay. Next, cast Pull of Eora to suck all the enemies into a single cluster. Then, since your dumb party frontliners are more than likely to get caught up in the suckhole as well, cast Purge of Toxins to protect them from what's coming next. Finally, spam Noxious Burst into the cluster.

 

I think this should work pretty well, but I can't test it. Thoughts, beta testers?

[Skazz]

Not too much I believe. But I didn't think a lot about it.

 

Man, does it feels bad to get snubbed by the big B. But thanks anyhow.

[Boeroer]

Just to clear things up: what do you mean when saying warrior? Fighter or just general combatants?

[Boeroer]

 

Not too much I believe. But I didn't think a lot about it.

Man, does it feels bad to get snubbed by the big B. But thanks anyhow.

Huh? It wasn't meant to sound snappy or so. I just wanted to say that I can't say if it makes sense because I didn't really think about such combos a lot or fiddled around with it. So: no expert here. It seems to be not very good but maybe it is nonetheless.

 

Sorry if that came out in a wrong way!

 

Blame it on my English skills.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[Ascaloth]

And now it's my turn to get snubbed!

[Skazz]

 

 

Not too much I believe. But I didn't think a lot about it.

Man, does it feels bad to get snubbed by the big B. But thanks anyhow.

Huh? It wasn't meant to sound snappy or so. I just wanted to say that I can't say if it makes sense because I didn't really think about such combos a lot or fiddled around with it. It seems to be not very good but maybe it is nonetheless.

Sorry if that came out in a wrong way!

 

 

No worries! It's all fine. Apologies for me kind of derailing the topic, too.

[Boeroer]

I actually just theorycrafted a combination that seems to work... on paper at least, I don't have access to beta;

 

Nature Godlike Transmuter/Lifegiver Sorcerer.

 

Inherent PL bonuses for both aspects of the multiclass, further enhanced by the Nature Godlike's racial with a simple casting of Nature's Balm. Transmuter spells are some of the best magic CC in the game. Rejuvenation spells are some of the best healing spells in the game as well, especially when supercharged with the Lifegiver Spiritshift. And speaking of Spiritshift, it's almost like this Sorcerer is a super-Druid with two Spiritshifts suited for different circumstances; Lifegiver Spiritshift for supercharging heals, and Form of the Fearsome Brute for when it's clobberin' time.

 

Last but not least, the Transmuter/Lifegiver is also capable of nuking. How? Through a very specific sequence; first, take Spirit of Decay. Next, cast Pull of Eora to suck all the enemies into a single cluster. Then, since your dumb party frontliners are more than likely to get caught up in the suckhole as well, cast Purge of Toxins to protect them from what's coming next. Finally, spam Noxious Burst into the cluster.

 

I think this should work pretty well, but I can't test it. Thoughts, beta testers?

That sounds nice. Pull of Eora works really well in the beta - without the weird "throwarounds" that it had in PoE. The Form of the Fearsome Brute is quite bad though - unless you have some good Full Attack abilites. Then it's mediocre.

[Yenkaz]

Just to clear things up: what do you mean when saying warrior? Fighter or just general combatants?

 

Fighter, Paladin, Monk, Barbarian, Rogue and Ranger.

 

Characters whose main weapon is their actual weapon.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Yenkaz

[Boeroer]

Ah, great.

[KDubya]

A Wizard (general)/Cipher (Soul Blade) could do really well.

 

• Start with a stealth cast of your best nuke
• Buff up with your fast spells like Fleet Feet, Infuse, Liengrath's Displaced Image
• Summon your weapon - Staff or Lance, while your team engages enemy
• Bash people with a soul whip buffed wizard weapon and build focus
• Drop a soul annihilation as needed to burn off focus or cast a higher level Cipher power
• Fire off additional spells as desired

Compared to a Cipher/Warrior type you'd have the buff spells of the wizard for better stats and defense, plus the summoned weapons and nukes. While a Wizard/Warrior type misses out on the +40% damage boost from soul whip, the penetration from the cipher passive, soul annihilation and the rest of the Cipher powers.

 

A Nature Godlike would do well due to the better power levels. Get a high dex for faster casting.

 

Its on my list of builds I'd like to use.

[Boeroer]

Did anybody try/does remember how many bonus jumps of Mind Blades you get when using Ascendant + Wellspring of Life?

Same with Minor Missiles : how many projectiles?

Edited April 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[amirpz]

I think the purpose of multi-casting is to access different variety of abilities. with that in mind I think priest of Eothas / Fury Druid or priest of Eothas / Evoker Wizard would be good choice. one class for buffs/healing and the other for pure damage.

[dunehunter]

Did anybody try/does remember how many bonus jumps of Mind Blades you get when using Ascendant + Wellspring of Life?

Same with Minor Missiles : how many projectiles?

 

It gets bounce penalty the more jumps it has, I remember my multiclass ascendant has 1+7jump at lvl 9, I'm not a naturegodlike, I picked deathgodlike because the rest of jump can benefit from death usher when enemy is dying.

[Boeroer]

It gets bounce penalty the more jumps it has, I remember my multiclass ascendant has 1+7jump at lvl 9, I'm not a naturegodlike, I picked deathgodlike because the rest of jump can benefit from death usher when enemy is dying.

Hm... would Bloody Slaughter also work with Mindblades then if you build a Barb/Cipher of some sorts?

Edited April 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

Do allied target powers still not work on self in Deadfire?

If high level powers are anything like Poe the solo cipher does not benefit from 8th level powers at all (Mindweb and Reaping Knives) unless you wanna bother with charming and using these on charmed creatures(which is a waste of time most of the time), so losing these is no problem at all, so mc cipher into another caster should be really good.

 

I wouldn't consider chanter a caster, chanter works well with any class, especially priest and wizard should be really strong since you can self buff without stopping to chant.

(Granted chants work similar to Poe)

[dunehunter]

Do allied target powers still not work on self in Deadfire?

If high level powers are anything like Poe the solo cipher does not benefit from 8th level powers at all (Mindweb and Reaping Knives) unless you wanna bother with charming and using these on charmed creatures(which is a waste of time most of the time), so losing these is no problem at all, so mc cipher into another caster should be really good.

 

I wouldn't consider chanter a caster, chanter works well with any class, especially priest and wizard should be really strong since you can self buff without stopping to chant.

(Granted chants work similar to Poe)

Yep they don’t , but cipher also has good self buff spells like body attuned and borrowed instinct. I’m sure they will have high level offensive spells too. Also all extotations does not work on self include liberation extotation. I think a solo paladin would be worse than cipher because they will have nothing to do except using FoD until he got SI, same as PoE 1. But the good thing is u can choose not to pick these spells and abilities when soloing and focus only on one or two spells u like.

[Raven Darkholme]

Borrowed Instinct is level 5 tho, but I guess we'll have to see if there will be different level 8 powers.

[Ophiuchus]

Not too much I believe. But I didn't think a lot about it.

 

Maybe Beckoner/Druid or /Priest to heal/buff summons or so?

Beckoner/Priest of Berath plays close to a traditional Necromancer.