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Best video is Holy Slayer highlight, first attempt VS Skulking Terror :p

Laughted hard :D

 

 

Incoming nerfhammer detected.

 

 

The problem as Josh described it is if they nerf Backstab to prevent specific edge cases like this, they hurt the Rogue as a whole. So I think some combinations will just remain very, very strong. 

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So I think some combinations will just remain very, very strong.

Based on the observed and documented data mentioned in another thread, do you feel this will cause the vast majority of players to choose those classes even if they didn't want to?

 

 

Well, only a very small number of all players is in this forum.

The people in this forum are the ones who know the game best, because they discuss about game mechanics and very powerful or very useless combinations all day long.

I do not know what most players do, because I am also one of the freaks who likes to discuss game mechanics and OP builds.

 

I guess that most players play very different than those players who have the most posts in this forum.

If you ask yourself what most players are doing you will not find the answers here.

 

If obsidian has data of all players, like which classes they play, which difficulty setting, how long they play and how often they see game over, I do not know them.

Those data would be the only safe source of information if players prefer or avoid some classes. And even then we would not be sure why they do it because when creating a char players do not write why they chose this char and not something else.

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Its being debated that players will inexorabely use a function/mechanic/class, even against their will, if it proves to be a superior choice.

 

Warhammer 40k list building in a nutshell.

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Its being debated that players will inexorabely use a function/mechanic/class, even against their will, if it proves to be a superior choice. If certain multiclass will be "very, very strong" then players gonna play, right? Role playing be damned.

To some extent sure. Look at BG2 and how many players used the kensai/mage or kensai/thief build. But as stated above, those who do that are mostly those who hang out a lot at forums like this, and that's a clear minority of the entire player base. Most of the players will stick with some build they think is cool as a concept.

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I'll do it, for a turnip.

 

DnD item quality description mod (for PoE2) by peardox

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To some extent sure. Look at BG2 and how many players used the kensai/mage or kensai/thief build. But as stated above, those who do that are mostly those who hang out a lot at forums like this, and that's a clear minority of the entire player base. Most of the players will stick with some build they think is cool as a concept.

But that doesn't jibe. We forum goers represent what, ~1/10 of 1% of the userbase? I cant imagine that developers would design entire system to prevent the use of just due to forum users feedback. Developers develop games for the people who buy them.

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Its being debated that players will inexorabely use a function/mechanic/class, even against their will, if it proves to be a superior choice. If certain multiclass will be "very, very strong" then players gonna play, right? Role playing be damned.

To some extent sure. Look at BG2 and how many players used the kensai/mage or kensai/thief build. But as stated above, those who do that are mostly those who hang out a lot at forums like this, and that's a clear minority of the entire player base. Most of the players will stick with some build they think is cool as a concept.

 

 

I know how powerful a kensai/mage or a fighter/mage can be in bg2, but I never played one in my countless playthrough. I play whatever class I like, not whatever class that is the most OP.

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So I think some combinations will just remain very, very strong.

Based on the observed and documented data mentioned in another thread, do you feel this will cause the vast majority of players to choose those classes even if they didn't want to?

 

 

Some players will gravitate towards the most powerful builds - these are the players that will actively google "best Pillars 2 build" and just blindly follow a pattern someone else put together. That's totally fine, it's one way to approach a game like this. Some players will load the game up having seen nothing of it except maybe a launch video or two, and will just do what sounds cool. Those players might end up with a terrible combination, like a Cipher (Soul Blade)/Wizard (Enchanter). 

 

I think it's better to balance upwards, to help the people in the latter category, and not worry about the power gamers. Power gamers are going to always exist. If you take away one of their toys at the expense of casual players or even just players in the middle of the road, that's bad game design. Especially in a single-player driven game, where no one should care how you play or how you approach a given challenge.

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To some extent sure. Look at BG2 and how many players used the kensai/mage or kensai/thief build. But as stated above, those who do that are mostly those who hang out a lot at forums like this, and that's a clear minority of the entire player base. Most of the players will stick with some build they think is cool as a concept.

But that doesn't jibe. We forum goers represent what, ~1/10 of 1% of the userbase? I cant imagine that developers would design entire system to prevent the use of <x> just due to forum users feedback. Developers develop games for the people who buy them.

 

 

The devs ( or better, the company who hires them ) want to sell as many copies as possible. But they also need some feedback from others to tell if their product is good. The freaks in this forum are most qualified to tell what is OP or what must be changed, because nobody else tries so hard to find OP stuff in order to solo the game naked, or whatever they want to do.

The devs are not forced to listen to anybody ( except the one who pays them), but I guess the feedback from the top 100 posters in this forum can be more useful than the feedback of 100,000 other players, assuming those other players give any feedback at all.

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Its being debated that players will inexorabely use a function/mechanic/class, even against their will, if it proves to be a superior choice. If certain multiclass will be "very, very strong" then players gonna play, right? Role playing be damned.

Historically the only people I knew who played that way were the scum of gaming who above all else desired power..

Edited by DigitalCrack
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The freaks in this forum are most qualified to tell what is OP or what must be changed, because nobody else tries so hard to find OP stuff in order to solo the game naked, or whatever they want to do.

 

Somewhere in Romania, a phone is ringing right now.

 

 

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Historically the only people I knew who played that way were the scum of gaming who above all else desired power..

Well that escalated quickly!  :blink:

 

Why does a gaming preference that is different from yours to be considered "scum"? Don't most games made in this genre provide an "advancement of power" in the PC and party?

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Also a Bleakwalker/Assassin is better as a solo hit&run build, I don't find it super powerful in a party because if you fight enemy face by face, you can only turn invisible two time and that means u can kill two mob and thats all. The combo doesn't have any aoe ability or any self-buff to boost his autoattacks. Players saw it's powerful alpha strike but didn't see the issue of the build, also if you check Sin Tee's other PoTD solo playthrough, he used a pure wizard and facetanked all mobs, isn't that more powerful than a BW/Assassin?

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Based on my Steam page, deadfire is the 11th best selling game right now, just above GTA 5. 

 

Not sure how much it's telling but I think it's a pretty good sign.

 

Also anyone know how the lanterns in Deadfire works? as a weapon or an equipment?

Edited by jf8350143
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Best video is Holy Slayer highlight, first attempt VS Skulking Terror :p

Laughted hard :D

 

 

Incoming nerfhammer detected.

 

 

 

Don't worry guys! game features % damage reduction that will take care of those big DPH attacks!

 

 

You might want to look at the comment I just made under yours on my video - there isn't a damage reduction % any more. It's just Armor Value. You are seeing a CRIT (with bonus penetration) hit a very lightly armored target, hence the huge number.

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Historically the only people I knew who played that way were the scum of gaming who above all else desired power..

Well that escalated quickly! :blink:

 

Why does a gaming preference that is different from yours to be considered "scum"? Don't most games made in this genre provide an "advancement of power" in the PC and party?

"The only people I knew" does not mean "all power gamers that exist." The power gamers I knew were scum because they would do anything and everything to obtain power within a game (cheats, exploits, bugs, design flaw, etc..) Nothing wrong with power gained within the confines of its intended design. I can assume decent power gamers exist but its all conjucture for me based on my experience.

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Best video is Holy Slayer highlight, first attempt VS Skulking Terror :p

Laughted hard :D

 

 

Incoming nerfhammer detected.

 

 

 

Don't worry guys! game features % damage reduction that will take care of those big DPH attacks!

 

 

You might want to look at the comment I just made under yours on my video - there isn't a damage reduction % any more. It's just Armor Value. You are seeing a CRIT (with bonus penetration) hit a very lightly armored target, hence the huge number.

 

 

 

That's my point. % reduction does nothing if attacker matches or exceeds defender's armor what isn't too hard to achieve especially with crits.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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Historically the only people I knew who played that way were the scum of gaming who above all else desired power..

Well that escalated quickly! :blink:

 

Why does a gaming preference that is different from yours to be considered "scum"? Don't most games made in this genre provide an "advancement of power" in the PC and party?

"The only people I knew" does not mean "all power gamers that exist." The power gamers I knew were scum because they would do anything and everything to obtain power within a game (cheats, exploits, bugs, design flaw, etc..) Nothing wrong with power gained within the confines of its intended design. I can assume decent power gamers exist but its all conjucture for me based on my experience.

You mixed up Powergamers with Munchkins.

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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