Yenkaz Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I'll likely multiclass warriors (Swashbuckler Edér, Scout Maia Rua, Herald Pallegina) but not casters (Priest Xoti, wizard MC). The idea of making poor Pallegina sing is just amusing to me, also I love passive buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosharian Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) I wonder if companions listed as having no subclasses have access to the subclasses the player can choose from? I remember in one of the multiclass updates, Xoti's monk subclasses were shown, and all of the player subclasses were listed as well as her unique subclass. As excited as I was for multiclassing as a feature, the fact that we can't freely multiclass the companions took some of the wind out of my sails. I'll probably keep the three returning companions in their original classes, and explore multiclassing with the new companions. look at the post above yours and yes, i agree, it would be better to have free multiclassing unfortunately josh disagrees Edited February 25, 2018 by Yosharian Yosharian's Deadfire Builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daled Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 As far as I know he doesn't disagree, it just happened to be be unexpectedly complicated/impossibile to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormerine Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 As far as I know he doesn't disagree, it just happened to be be unexpectedly complicated/impossibile to do. Ya, original idea was to allow players to multiclass their companions however they choose. It changed however, once multiclassing system got modified to D&D2 style: “JS: What we are currently supporting—and this might change—is that when you get a character in your party you will have the option of taking them as — it depends on the character. There will be three options depending on the character. If you get Edér it'll say: "Hey, do you want to be a Fighter, a Rogue or a Swashbuckler?" There are other characters, like Aloth, where it will be a Wizard or a Wizard mixed with another class(that we'll define), or a third option which is a Wizard mixed with yet another class. That's what we're currently supporting. Depending on how testing of that goes we may open that up to support more than that. It just turned out to be more technically complicated, in terms of UI and progression, than we had expected. But, yeah, the currently plan is that every companion that you get will have those three options and you specify it right there, and then they advance as that class or combination of classes.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosharian Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Sorry but I find that extremely hard to believe. I don't see how Eder having the option to specialise as an Unbroken, for example, changes anything in an 'unexpectedly complicated' or 'impossible' way. Edited February 26, 2018 by Yosharian 2 Yosharian's Deadfire Builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardragon Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Engine mechanics, not plot. 1 Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I'm disappointed that I can't multiclass Eder as a Priest of Eothas. It fits him so well. I'll have to see if I can figure out how to mod it so I can. Engine mechanics, not plot. I find that hard to believe as well. It's all there for the main character but somehow breaks down for the companions? I suspect it's more a case of not wanting to overwhelm players and/or it being hard to balance the game around completely free multiclassing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malchiorita Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Sorry but I find that extremely hard to believe. I don't see how Eder having the option to specialise as an Unbroken, for example, changes anything in an 'unexpectedly complicated' or 'impossible' way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardragon Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) I'm disappointed that I can't multiclass Eder as a Priest of Eothas. It fits him so well. I'll have to see if I can figure out how to mod it so I can. Engine mechanics, not plot. I find that hard to believe as well. It's all there for the main character but somehow breaks down for the companions? I suspect it's more a case of not wanting to overwhelm players and/or it being hard to balance the game around completely free multiclassing. The main character goes through a character creation screen. Companions do not. Originally, when multiclassing happened after first level, there was a separate screen for multiclassing which gave companions access to all the same options as the main character. Now multiclassing occurs at first level companions simply do not use that interface. Instead all of the available options (three) are handled through the dialogue tree. You could have more than three, but the dialogue tree can't support the 30ish potential choices, so there has to be an arbtary cut off. Edited February 26, 2018 by Fardragon 1 Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 ... there has to be an arbtary cut off. Only if you're set on having companion multiclassing handled through dialogue trees. I can't see why this should be however. What's wrong with having the same character creation screen pop-up upon hiring a companion for the first time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanawatzin Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) But why are you people seeing a problem in here? I mean - if you want to have a team full of characters which are be able to multiclass to whatever you want, please do a team full of NPCs made by player. But you will lose the whole roleplaying part with party banters and relations. If you want the latest more than the possibility to multiclass companions to whataver you want, just accept the fact, that by their lore they are able to multiclass in some particular ways. That's all. I think that this is a really nice form of showing that each companions has his/hers unique way to be created throughout the game. Well at least that's just my opinion on this part. Edited February 26, 2018 by Nanawatzin 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I like that they are restricted a bit too, for RPG reasons. 3 *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannock Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 We see it yet again; the plague of wanting everything, all the time. We had the same discussion regarding weapons with class restrictions. Having everything catered to your personal needs at all points lessens the experience. There's never any hard fought choices. The pain of restriction enriches the overall gaming experience. Please realize that and let it sink in. Post modernism - I shake my fist at thee! 4 I'll do it, for a turnip. DnD item quality description mod (for PoE2) by peardox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormerine Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Free multiclassing for companions was pitched during crowdfunding, so disappointed is understandable. Stilll, between options that are given and merceneries its hardly seems like a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I'm sure somebody will mod it. No matter. 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 But why are you people seeing a problem in here? I mean - if you want to have a team full of characters which are be able to multiclass to whatever you want, please do a team full of NPCs made by player. But you will lose the whole roleplaying part with party banters and relations. If you want the latest more than the possibility to multiclass companions to whataver you want, just accept the fact, that by their lore they are able to multiclass in some particular ways. That's all. I think that this is a really nice form of showing that each companions has his/hers unique way to be created throughout the game. Well at least that's just my opinion on this part. In one of Eder's endings he joins an underground organisation of Eothasians and quickly rises within its ranks. Forgive me for feeling that being able to multiclass Eder as a Priest of Eothas fitted his lore well in this case. It has nothing to do with wanting a team with complete freedom to choose any multiclass combination possible. Indeed in every other case I am happy with the options put forward by Obsidian. The pain of restriction enriches the overall gaming experience. Please realize that and let it sink in. For you maybe, but quite clearly not for everyone. I find much more enjoyment in having complete mechanical freedom and imposing my own, lore based, restrictions. I had the freedom to give Durance's staff to another character in Pillars, and doing so is a pretty solid choice in the early game, but I never did because from a lore perspective he wouldn't let anyone else use it. I don't think my experience would have be enriched had this been restriction been mechanical. Meanwhile other players did give the staff to other characters and enjoyed their experience nonetheless. Post modernism - I shake my fist at thee! I can agree with this sentiment however. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malchiorita Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 But why are you people seeing a problem in here? I mean - if you want to have a team full of characters which are be able to multiclass to whatever you want, please do a team full of NPCs made by player. But you will lose the whole roleplaying part with party banters and relations. If you want the latest more than the possibility to multiclass companions to whataver you want, just accept the fact, that by their lore they are able to multiclass in some particular ways. That's all. I think that this is a really nice form of showing that each companions has his/hers unique way to be created throughout the game. Well at least that's just my opinion on this part. Well, i could understand some limitiation lorewise, but the main problem imho is that the companions are so few that you should have the most freedom possible on their management, since going with sideckicks or player made npcs will gimp your overall game experience... And especially on subclasses i dont see why they should limit it on companions since that could make sense on paladins and priest only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanawatzin Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 But why are you people seeing a problem in here? I mean - if you want to have a team full of characters which are be able to multiclass to whatever you want, please do a team full of NPCs made by player. But you will lose the whole roleplaying part with party banters and relations. If you want the latest more than the possibility to multiclass companions to whataver you want, just accept the fact, that by their lore they are able to multiclass in some particular ways. That's all. I think that this is a really nice form of showing that each companions has his/hers unique way to be created throughout the game. Well at least that's just my opinion on this part. Well, i could understand some limitiation lorewise, but the main problem imho is that the companions are so few that you should have the most freedom possible on their management, since going with sideckicks or player made npcs will gimp your overall game experience... And especially on subclasses i dont see why they should limit it on companions since that could make sense on paladins and priest only I cant' agree on that. The fact, that our companions have their own subclasses is a thing that makes them worth taking with you on the adventure. And changing them over one playthrough or few of those. I've always liked the fact, that Sagani had her own animal companion, and Hiravias was able to spiritshift into a stelgaer. That was the thing that made them unique to me. And the same goes with specific subclasses for companions in the Deadfire. So yeah, that limitation is really usefull and good for the gaming experience. And as Mannock said: "The pain of restriction enriches the overall gaming experience. Please realize that and let it sink in." :3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 In one of Eder's endings he joins an underground organisation of Eothasians and quickly rises within its ranks. Forgive me for feeling that being able to multiclass Eder as a Priest of Eothas fitted his lore well in this case. I don’t recall any implication that the Night Market was made up of priests, clerics, paladins, etc. Perhaps I missed something, but Edér made it sound like a group of ordinary people just trying to do the right thing (ala the Underground Railroad). We already have one companion who can multi class a Priest of Eothas. Why in the world would they go to the trouble to write for two of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosharian Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > role-playing game > deep multiclassing system > wanting to multi-class characters is a show of narcissistic entitlement one of these doesn't fit 3 Yosharian's Deadfire Builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanawatzin Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 In one of Eder's endings he joins an underground organisation of Eothasians and quickly rises within its ranks. Forgive me for feeling that being able to multiclass Eder as a Priest of Eothas fitted his lore well in this case.I don’t recall any implication that the Night Market was made up of priests, clerics, paladins, etc. Perhaps I missed something, but Edér made it sound like a group of ordinary people just trying to do the right thing (ala the Underground Railroad). We already have one companion who can multi class a Priest of Eothas. Why in the world would they go to the trouble to write for two of those? This and this: Ironically, in learning that the gods had been fabricated, Eder found his faith in Eothas renewed, and that his god was neither alive nor truly a god had become irrelevant. He rose quickly through the ranks of the Night Market for his optimisim and for his bold leadership, his ultimate goal to make the Dyrwood a place that would welcome followers of the Shining God once again. There is no word about being a priest or the fact that the Night Makret is made of such. There is also no implication that he would get any mystical powers from his so to speak god. As Achilles said - he just wanted to make a place for other eothasians to live in peace on the lands which were hostile for them after the Saint's War. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) I don’t recall any implication that the Night Market was made up of priests, clerics, paladins, etc. Perhaps I missed something, but Edér made it sound like a group of ordinary people just trying to do the right thing (ala the Underground Railroad). Nor is there any implication that the Night Market specifically excluded priests. His faith grew stronger after the events of Pillars (assuming you got that ending) and I feel that him multiclassing as a Priest of Eothas fits him well. You disagree. The great thing about a more flexible system is we both get what we want. We already have one companion who can multi class a Priest of Eothas. Why in the world would they go to the trouble to write for two of those? We already know Eder's going to have a lot of opinions about Eothas in dialogue, apparently disagreeing with Xoti about things. What more writing is needed? Priest in Pillars doesn't only mean person who runs a church and ministers a congregation. To quote: Priests are devotees of Eora's deities and practitioners of religious magic. While all priests dedicate themselves to specific gods, priests' power is actually derived from their personal beliefs. Does that really sound so impossible for Night Garden Eder? Edited February 26, 2018 by JerekKruger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 There is also no implication that he would get any mystical powers from his so to speak god. No Priest in Eora gets their powers from their god (if they did, Durance would be a bit of a problem given his god literally can't see him anymore). They get them from their own belief. Eder's belief in Eothas strengthens in the Night Garden ending so him becoming a Priest of Eothas is hardly a stretch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Night *Market* Yes, he is going to be in conflict with Xoti. Does it make more sense for that conflict to stem from a completely different take on religion or does a nerd-fight between two priest sound like more fertile ground? Look, as others have already pointed out, they wanted to do one thing but ended up doing another. Are you going to get over this and move on or do you think complaining here is actually going to accomplish something? The game ships in a few weeks. I don’t think you can look forward to a major shift on multiclass in that time. Edited February 26, 2018 by Achilles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosharian Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 In one of Eder's endings he joins an underground organisation of Eothasians and quickly rises within its ranks. Forgive me for feeling that being able to multiclass Eder as a Priest of Eothas fitted his lore well in this case.I don’t recall any implication that the Night Market was made up of priests, clerics, paladins, etc. Perhaps I missed something, but Edér made it sound like a group of ordinary people just trying to do the right thing (ala the Underground Railroad). We already have one companion who can multi class a Priest of Eothas. Why in the world would they go to the trouble to write for two of those? This and this: Ironically, in learning that the gods had been fabricated, Eder found his faith in Eothas renewed, and that his god was neither alive nor truly a god had become irrelevant. He rose quickly through the ranks of the Night Market for his optimisim and for his bold leadership, his ultimate goal to make the Dyrwood a place that would welcome followers of the Shining God once again. There is no word about being a priest or the fact that the Night Makret is made of such. There is also no implication that he would get any mystical powers from his so to speak god. As Achilles said - he just wanted to make a place for other eothasians to live in peace on the lands which were hostile for them after the Saint's War. That definitely means Eder cannot multiclass as a Priest of Eothas and there is no room at all for disagreement, or *gasp* some imaginative role-playing. Do you not hear how you sound? Yosharian's Deadfire Builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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