Wouldn't it have been better if the Thaos-concept was used for the hero? (spoilers if you haven't finished PoE1)

[Heijoushin]

Okay, hear me out. Thaos gets reborn into a new body each time, but gets to keep his memories of all his previous incarnations, right? So he's an endlessly flexible character with the benefit of the experience of 100 adventures. Doesn't that sound like... the player? It would work so well for sequels. Instead of this weird excuse of losing your powers because Eothas stomped all over you, each new game could simply be a new incarnation of the character. So no problem if you role a completely different race or gender. All they need is a central "mission" that spans generations.

I just find the concept of Thaos really cool, whereas the watcher, apart from his soul seeing powers... is really boring. I mean, he's just one of Thaos' underlings from a past life who has serious existential issues. 

[DexGames]

It would probably enter in conflict with whatever the Choice you make at the end.

Destroy his soul forever, Lock him down forever. [Where Iovara is, IIRC]

[huang]

They probably didn't want a character which is this powerful.

 

But yeah, the whole concept would allow a lot of interesting character drama. It would probably also help with the "going insane" part. If you could never die and would just end up in the next body instead, with all your memories intact. That should weigh heavily on anybody at some point.

 

Maybe that's what Eothas is kind of in PIllars 2. It appears his soul was just put in the next body after he was "killed".

[Valmy]

Maybe that's what Eothas is kind of in PIllars 2. It appears his soul was just put in the next body after he was "killed".

 

Yeah I have so many questions about that. Looking forward to the game answering them.

[TheisEjsing]

Thaos is the hero. The Watcher is a young vagrant who believes his few years of life experience, gives him the moral high ground to disturb the balance, that Thaos has selflessly maintained for the longest time.

Edited February 10, 2018 by TheisEjsing

[CottonWolf]

#thaosdidnothingwrong

[Wormerine]

Hmm.. I dislike having my character elaborate background story in my RPGs. Yeah, it can work (Planescape, cough, cough) but I much prefer to create MY character that is drawn into an interesting situation, than having an interesting situation thrust upon him. You see, there are very few instances in which character can have defined past AND prewritten background story. Planescape worked, because defining your current character was part of the character. PC in KOTOR was never my character, and same with Numenera.

 

Here is the problem I see with having a “reborn” PC - either your past defines your current character, as you remember your past, which goes against character creation, or you have amnesia (again), which means you being reborn is irrelevant. Doing a twist that the bad guy is you, or facing decision you did in a past - uhh, I have seen it too many times already, it’s not clever anymore. It certainly makes it easier to create a “hook” for your character, but I find this trope to be more useful to writers than us players.

 

Maybe your character was boring, but mine wasn’t:). I am kinda still disappointed they roll with the same PC for the sequel. I was hoping for a new protagonist.

[CottonWolf]

I tend to agree that a relatively free background is generally good for a CRPG. I mean, my barbarian mystic who went to the Dyrwood because they got a vision feels much better as a background than many set protagonists in videogames. And obviously they helped Rymrgand at the end, because coming from The White That Wends, they obviously believed that the vision came from Rymrgand to begin with. It was a good interaction between the background options they give you at the start and the options you're presented as you go through the game.

 

I disagree with Wormerine about the Watcher coming back being a bad thing though. The fact that you know the gods are constructed is something that would have been very difficult information to give to a different protagonist, and it's key to the "story".

[rjshae]

Didn't the Watcher gradually rediscover a past life though throughout the story? At least it seemed that way.

[Hybridsalmon]

Didn't the Watcher gradually rediscover a past life though throughout the story? At least it seemed that way.

 

You still had some freedom though. You could choose parts of that past life.

[Wormerine]

Didn't the Watcher gradually rediscover a past life though throughout the story? At least it seemed that way.

That's true. They did lean into "Planescape" trope already. I didn't even realize that.

 

Using that as a main link between instlaments of the same series might be  a bit too much for me. I found your "past" to be more of a MacGuffin than a central part of the character - everyone can be awaken after all. But you are right that the trope was already used, without overriding your character's actions. 

 

 

I disagree with Wormerine about the Watcher coming back being a bad thing though. The fact that you know the gods are constructed is something that would have been very difficult information to give to a different protagonist, and it's key to the "story".

It doesn't have to be bad. Potential of Watcher's abilities haven't been exhausted yet, and you are right - knowing the truth about gods should make for an interesting followup, which a new character wouldn't had - unless we would start with low level ex-Leaden Key member discovering it, or something like that - but it might be a more difficult sell. I just assumed they would roll with new character, as that's what they did in all of their previous sequels - except this time its a sequel to their game. 

 

Duh, it's going to be good either way 7 weeks to go.

 

EDIT: After extra 10 seconds of thinking - calling awakening a "MacGuffin" has been quite wrong on my part. It is way too expanded and tied together to the world and your character. Still, more of a motivation, than goal in itself as it was in Planescape.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Wormerine

[darkling.lithely]

Maybe the Watcher is a Time Lord. Maybe Thaos is the Master.

[Daled]

So they'll both regenerate into women next time? 

 

In seriousness, I don't think that a background like that would restrict the player more than the actual one we have.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Daled

[Tigranes]

Thaos as PC is too PST, really.

 

I also thought the Watcher was stupid, but I'd have preferred a simple no-name adventurer. It's just so hackneyed to find oh you are chosen one with superpowers & the chosen of the chosen with a special coincidental connection to Iovara and Thaos.

 

The whole aspect of integrating death/reloading/sequels into the setting is something people spill tons of ink on, but I've never found particularly important. Oh, ok, you found a way to make player death make sense in the gameworld. Cool. Not really going to help the character or the story become truly memorable.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Tigranes

[Lord_Mord]

 

Not really going to help the character or the story become truly memorable.

 

I found PST quite memorable. Remember the first time you woke up in the mortuary again?

[Wormerine]

Not really going to help the character or the story become truly memorable.

 

I found PST quite memorable. Remember the first time you woke up in the mortuary again?

Yeah, but using the same tricks over and over again will only take you that far.

[alexis13]

Okay, hear me out. Thaos gets reborn into a new body each time, but gets to keep his memories of all his previous incarnations, right? So he's an endlessly flexible character with the benefit of the experience of 100 adventures. Doesn't that sound like... the player? It would work so well for sequels. Instead of this weird excuse of losing your powers because Eothas stomped all over you, each new game could simply be a new incarnation of the character. So no problem if you role a completely different race or gender. All they need is a central "mission" that spans generations.

 

I just find the concept of Thaos really cool, whereas the watcher, apart from his soul seeing powers... is really boring. I mean, he's just one of Thaos' underlings from a past life who has serious existential issues. 

Yeah, the watcher sucks ass, #GilesFromBuffy   laaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmee.

 

I just pretended I wasn't one and put my own story into it, had a lot more fun.

Edited March 19, 2018 by alexis13

[Guest]

I still think it’s awfully tidy that the PC mysteriously got ill and was forced to stop right in front of the Engwithan ruin that Thaos just happened to be visiting.

 

Someone is pulling some strings here and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find out that the PC has a benefactor, much like Thaos. It’s entirely possible that the Thaos/Woedica arrangement is a very specific execution of a relationship that the PC has with another god (which would allow that relationship to look different while otherwise being more or less the same).

[Wormerine]

I still think it’s awfully tidy that the PC mysteriously got ill and was forced to stop right in front of the Engwithan ruin that Thaos just happened to be visiting.

 

Someone is pulling some strings here and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find out that the PC has a benefactor, much like Thaos. It’s entirely possible that the Thaos/Woedica arrangement is a very specific execution of a relationship that the PC has with another god (which would allow that relationship to look different while otherwise being more or less the same).

That... would actually be a pretty good twist. 

[Aramintai]

Thaos doesn't look like a good protagonist. If anything, he's very inflexible - he's a devout servant of Woedica with his body, soul and memories unchanging throughout all his lives. And all his lives are devoted to do her bidding unwavered. 

 

Personally, I'd have preferred if PC had Iovara's soul instead of some random insignificant inquisitor or Thaos. That way Thaos could have been a much more personal and bitter enemy, like Irenicus, for example. Iovara and inquisitor both share a grand secret, but hers was a much grander tale. To have her soul would have been way more cooler.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Aramintai

[JerekKruger]

Okay, hear me out. Thaos gets reborn into a new body each time, but gets to keep his memories of all his previous incarnations, right? So he's an endlessly flexible character with the benefit of the experience of 100 adventures. Doesn't that sound like... the player? It would work so well for sequels. Instead of this weird excuse of losing your powers because Eothas stomped all over you, each new game could simply be a new incarnation of the character. So no problem if you role a completely different race or gender. All they need is a central "mission" that spans generations.

 

This is basically what I wanted Obsidian to do with Deadfire, although instead of Thaos I wanted the player character to simply be the reincarnation of the previous Watcher's soul. This seemed like a much neater way to explain why we're level 1 again that Eothas stealing your soul power and ties in well with the Wheel aspect of Eora.

 

As for Thaos, the only reason I don't think it would work with him is the variety of endings he had, some of which make it pretty clear his soul is gone for good. I agree that he's a cool character concept.

[Guest]

I’d be disappointed if Obsidian turned this into Roadrunner vs Wile E Coyote. Let’s not resurrect antagonists just for the sake of doing so.

[SonicMage117]

Okay, hear me out. Thaos gets reborn into a new body each time, but gets to keep his memories of all his previous incarnations, right? So he's an endlessly flexible character with the benefit of the experience of 100 adventures. Doesn't that sound like... the player? It would work so well for sequels. Instead of this weird excuse of losing your powers because Eothas stomped all over you, each new game could simply be a new incarnation of the character. So no problem if you role a completely different race or gender. All they need is a central "mission" that spans generations.

 

It's such a complex system for writers and the rest of the dtaff to accomplish/implement correctly, it is ny current belief that only one developer has really ever done this or could do this successfully... they are called Quantic Dream.

https://www.gog.com/game/omikron_the_nomad_soul

 

When you die, you take control of the last person you touched but keep the xp, and such. Your new character reaping the benefits (this almost appears to be rogue-lite-esque, think Rogue Legacy) but pressing forward through the interactive story in an engaging manner.

 

Check it out, it's a classic.

[jones092201@gmail.com]

Maybe you are Thaos’s last castoff...

[jones092201@gmail.com]

Crossover sequel??