SO what does that mean for guns vs bows? This is the only thing I care about.
Basically if you use guns, wear armor?
Seems so. Armor only hinders recovery, so if you mainly use guns (and let's say rarely toss a few spells with fast recovery), you can basically wear the heaviest armor without repercussions.
I would especially keep an eye on crossbows. Now that they have 0.7 attack duration, 0 recovery and 3.0s reloading, they are really good at 17-22 base damage, 7 pen and 12 range.
List of all weapons for reference: link
Before iirc you linked to a quote from Josh which suggested that armor will eventually affect reload duration. Did they change their minds, or have they just not implemented it yet?....
- it looks like reload duration was decided to be left unafected by the armor type.
Yeah. Here's the excerpt:
Probably they have changed their minds regarding armor.
But stuff like Frenzy, Swift Strikes, and +/-% Action Speed stuff does affect reloading now.
Wonder how available potions or crafting materials will be in the game, at various stages. Will probably be able to farm consistently by some point in the game.
Good point. Availability of crafting materials coupled with alchemy vendors will have a big influence on how will alchemy integrate into the game.
so what do we have now:
- Like the new damage formula, nobody can calculate the new attack speed without a calculator ( double inversion). OK, while the old damage formula was very simple, I am not a power gamer and I did not calculate attack speed in PoE1, I just used things that make me faster when I found them. No Idea if I reached zero recovery.
- The current formula is easy to write down and explain, but yeap, once there is a single malus, you can't calculate nothing without a calculator.
- The PoE1 was harder to explain and lay down on paper, not to mention that you had to know which coefficients are going to be aggregated in multiplicative and which in additive manner. But it was easier to compute stuff in mind.
- There was kinda another possible approach, that could combine the best of two worlds: divide [the sum of bonuses] by [sum of maluses]. E.g. you are affected by two bonuses that increase your speed by 20% and 30%; and one malus that decreases your speed by 50%: coef = (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) / (1 + 0.5) = 1. Voila. No negative numbers; easy to calculate and implement.
But perhaps they indeed wanted such behaviour.
- What of these things stack and did this change from PoE1?
- Since everyone wants a heavy armor because of the AR/pen system and not everyone is a fighter, how many bonusses do you need to compensate the heavy armor?
- Some people said a blast rod + rangers driving flight + monks ability that crits cause another attack (name forgotten, sorry) is OP. Is this still true in heavy armor compared to just dual wielding something without modal in heavy armor? (OK, we already discussed that dual wielding seems to be too powerful now.)
- So you calculate recovery time and dual wielding halves this number. What does the +20% from the fighter talent do? Does it reduce recovery by 70% (50% dual wielding + 20% talent)?
1. +x% Action Speed effects do not stack. Only the highest apply. This includes: Frenzy, Swift Strike, Potion of Deftness, Potion of Relentless Strikes (if I remember right how it's called)
. It's pretty similar to PoE1 in terms of stacking.
2. because of double inversion, I would say: a variable amount of bonuses, as it changes depending on all related effects that affect you.
3. it should be true for being in heavy armor as well. It's just a chain of procs. If you crit, you get an extra instant free attack. If it crits, you get an extra one again, and so on. The primary factor here is the chance to crit.
4. No no. It's not that you calculate recovery and AFTER that dual-wielding halves it. DW bonus is taken into account DURING recovery calculation.
As for stacking Two-Weapon Style with DW, it goes like this:
- Dual Wielding gives you +100% recovery speed
- Two-Weapon Style gives you +20% recovery speed
- step_sum = (2 - 1) + (1.2 -1) = 1.2
- speed_coef = 1.2 + 1 = 2.2
- recovery = base_recovery / 2.2
OK, at least now I understand why dual wielding is so OP.
Imagine two characters:
- A: wields a single sabre. @10DEX: 0.7s attack + 3.0s recovery = 3.7s
- B: dual-wields them. @10DEX: 0.7s attack + 1.5s recovery = 2.2s (or x1.68 faster)
Q: How much DEX would A need, in order to deliver a blow every 2.2s?
A: 66 DEX
- From auto-attacking perspective, it's like A is getting +12 PER bonus for attacking with a single weapon; while B is getting +56 DEX for dual-wielding) (ofc these numbers change a bit if you are affected by additional bonuses and maluses; but without them that is)
- And now there are also FullAttack abilities. Basically you hit not every 2.2s, but every: 0.7s, 2.2s, 0.7s, 2.2s, and so on, because mainhand recovery is skipped. That's 1.45s on average. So if we had A and B both being paladins, B would effectively deliver his attacks x2.55 (3.7/1.45)
faster than A color=#888888](up from x1.68, while he has FoD charges)[/color]
MaxQuest also wrote that even one malus hampers this badly, but how bad does it get if there are more of them?
One malus has a greater effect than one would expect. But many maluses is suddenly not that
. It's like the system heavily smooths the edge cases, when we have many bonuses, or many maluses.
Let's take that warbow again:
Which maluses are the worst offenders in this case?
As MadScientist already mentioned:
+100% recovery from modals, disoriented and blind
+55% from heavy armor
-50% action speed from some other modals, which also answers his question: if there are any attack phase related maluses.