Gfted1 Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 I do enjoy your insistence on ignoring the 'software bug' point tho - if you're perfectly fine with software installing unsolicited spyware on your computer and trust software developers to be infallible, well, that's on you. R00fles! You ignore 2/3 of your own statement and then don't don't understand the point. Where do you store your receipts? Its obviously a more secure location than your entertainment media. I need a good place to put my Pink Floyd receipts. Also AC/DC. Goddamn I spent a fortune over my lifetime on those two bands. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Fenixp Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) R00fles! You ignore 2/3 of your own statement and then don't understand the point.Getting 'yourself in a position', in my understanding of the phrase (and my understanding may be icorrect), means that you do an action in spite of realizing that you'll 'get yourself in a position' of some description. What I'm trying to explain is that I'm hardly 'getting myself in a position' when I respect the rules laid out for me and expect developer to do the same. So no, I'm not ignoring anything. That's going completely off the rails of the conversation tho. Where do you store your receipts? Its obviously a more secure location than your entertainment media.You mean you don't store your proofs of purchase more securely than videogames? Is it really? I think that seems fraudulent to me; but there are cases where software (and the serial number) is transferred by sale. Still... Posted numbers on the web are probably stolen keys to stolen property.Czech laws at any rate, however I'm pretty sure something of the sort is rooted in the European law as well. All right, to be more precise - I'd only do this to bypass an offline disc check, I of course tend to be more careful with online registered serial numbers. Nonetheless, the worst I expect is for the check to go "Yeah, that's not a valid serial code." Edited February 21, 2018 by Fenixp
Gfted1 Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 You mean you don't store your proofs of purchase more securely than videogames? Lordy no! Well, I no longer buy physical media of any kind so I guess my receipts are "in the cloud". And I never keep paper receipts. Except from CVS Pharmacy, which I use for recording paper of my magnum opus. 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Zoraptor Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) If a person buys an ice cream cone (or a car), and loses it, or smashes it, or loans it out... That doesn't entitle them to another one for free; why should it apply to media or software? Yeah, but you cannot produce a new car at zero cost to Ford/ Toyota etc nor a new ice cream at zero cost to Movenpick/ Tip Top etc, it would cost them money to replace them. It doesn't cost the producer anything to replace music or software if you download them while having a legit licence. If you loan a CD and lose it then you have no legal recourse, otherwise you may well have. Further, media and software companies tend to be very aggressive in saying that you aren't buying a physical 'good' even if you get a CD/ DVD, but a licence to use protected by copyright. Copyright provides protections to the user as well as the producer despite what producers would like, if copyright laws say you can make a backup or format shift then there's zero legal problem with doing so. Rights holders will disclaim liability and limit your rights as much as they can, there's no legal or moral obligation on you not to do the exact same thing. Edited February 21, 2018 by Zoraptor 4
Blarghagh Posted February 21, 2018 Author Posted February 21, 2018 If a person buys an ice cream cone (or a car), and loses it, or smashes it, or loans it out... That doesn't entitle them to another one for free; why should it apply to media or software? I think this argument would hold more water if it wasn't for every developer and publisher of note spending the last ten years selling the con that software is not a product but a service. :shrug: 6
Keyrock Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 If a person buys an ice cream cone (or a car), and loses it, or smashes it, or loans it out... That doesn't entitle them to another one for free; why should it apply to media or software? Actually, it kinda does. That's what you pay insurance for. You don't exactly get get another car exactly like the one you had if you total it, instead you a get fair market value pay out. If you also happen to have GAP insurance then you get actual cash value for your car, which could, in theory, be used to buy another car exactly like the one you had. That's how it work is Murica, mind you. I can't speak to how it works in other countries. RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
Gizmo Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) If a person buys an ice cream cone (or a car), and loses it, or smashes it, or loans it out... That doesn't entitle them to another one for free; why should it apply to media or software? Actually, it kinda does. That's what you pay insurance for. You don't exactly get get another car exactly like the one you had if you total it, instead you a get fair market value pay out. If you also happen to have GAP insurance then you get actual cash value for your car, which could, in theory, be used to buy another car exactly like the one you had. That's how it work is Murica, mind you. I can't speak to how it works in other countries. I mentioned insurance in an earlier post... but I have never been offered the chance to buy media insurance; generally (and gratefully), proof of purchase is often enough for the manufacturer; or in some cases the distributor. Take GoG & Steam for instance, they both know you bought it, and they let you download it again (and again). If a person buys an ice cream cone (or a car), and loses it, or smashes it, or loans it out... That doesn't entitle them to another one for free; why should it apply to media or software? Yeah, but you cannot produce a new car at zero cost to Ford/ Toyota etc nor a new ice cream at zero cost to Movenpick/ Tip Top etc, it would cost them money to replace them. This appears (I guess to some), to attempt to justify it by claiming no cost to the owner/publisher of the software. It is their choice to duplicate—that's copyright. They don't usually loan that right to others without prior arrangement. If I made an illustration, and sold one copy of it, I would not be pleased to find 100,000 copies of it in circulation; justified by "but it cost you nothing for us to copy it". In fact, this is the plight of all artists who sell to the public... People these days think nothing of walking right up to an artist's easel, or hung pieces, and duplicating the image (in printable quality) onto their phone even as the artist stands their watching them rip them off—and many adopt an offended attitude if the artist objects. This is replicating an object for sale... That is no different than replicating a game or program that is for sale. A particularly rude variation on this, is when a professional photographer photographs an artist's original imagery or sculpture... and then sells it as clip art, or to be used in advertisements. And this is where the only value is the artist's own imagery—for which they get no recompense; and may not have even authorized the photos in the first place. It is rare as hell for the photographer to buy the item first. ______ A nasty (but predictable) side effect of unauthorized duplication, is the dilution of its value and/or novelty as a retail sale item, by the loss of its limited supply; it's like thinning the soup. For example: Why would someone purchase from me (the only distributor), the image I mentioned, if they can print it from their friend's Facebook page? Why would they buy a software product, if they can cheat their way to access, via stolen serial number (from the perspective of the publisher), or from uploads not authorized by the publisher? Why is this considered (by so many) to be an okay thing to do? Edited February 22, 2018 by Gizmo
Katphood Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 This looks sweet: Comes out on all systems according to gematsu.com: https://gematsu.com/2018/02/co-op-arcade-racer-trailblazers-announced-ps4-xbox-one-switch-pc 2 There used to be a signature here, a really cool one...and now it's gone.
Gizmo Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) It does. There seems to be recent news on Druidstone, they are moving into production.http://druidstone-game.com/ Edited February 22, 2018 by Gizmo 4
ShadySands Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Never heard of Druidstone before but now it's definitely on my radar. Thanks for that! Free games updated 3/4/21
Zoraptor Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 If I made an illustration, and sold one copy of it, I would not be pleased to find 100,000 copies of it in circulation; justified by "but it cost you nothing for us to copy it". If a person buys an ice cream cone (or a car), and loses it, or smashes it, or loans it out... That doesn't entitle them to another one for free; why should it apply to media or software? Those are completely different scenarios though. If you legally replace or have backed up software or music that you have legitimately bought it has no relation at all as to whether 100k other people have obtained it illegally. You have zero responsibility for what others do. 1
Gizmo Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) If I made an illustration, and sold one copy of it, I would not be pleased to find 100,000 copies of it in circulation; justified by "but it cost you nothing for us to copy it". If you legally replace or have backed up software or music that you have legitimately bought it has no relation at all as to whether 100k other people have obtained it illegally. You have zero responsibility for what others do. Legally backing up one's own purchase for one's own safe storage is indeed different from uploading that backup to a public torrent; possibly with a tampered installer; or downloading that torrent because they've convinced themselves they are owed it—when they are not. The issue has always been one of, "but I want it, and there it is—free... I shall have it; where is the harm?"; and it's alternative variant, "where is the harm—if I don't get caught!?". If I have bought a vinyl Pink Floyd album, that does not entitle me to the commercial MP3 of it—not even to replace a scratched album. The MP3 is a separately licensed product; with its own set of agreements, and agreed upon payments. Taking (ie. stealing) the MP3 is bypassing the vendor's cut from the sale. The album seller got theirs for the physical version, but not the MP3 seller... and yet the album purchaser considers themselves entitled to the work in any medium, regardless of who made it available, and regardless of who doesn't get paid for their work. There is a parallel here between buying the standalone disc installer version, and the one from Steam or Gog... It is only the policy of the vendor that entitles the replacement download from them, of what was purchased from them. Having a friend give you a GoG installer to replace the the damaged or lost disc of the exact same game is still breaking the EULA. It is a new player, using GoG's distributed work/ their installer, to play a game that they did not sell to them... That's stealing from GoG—even if you bought it from Steam, or had the disc. Case in point: I own two or more retail disc installers for Planescape:Torment. That does not entitle me to Gog's packaged Planescape installer—which I also bought, for the service of having a turn-key installer for that game. It's the same with their Forgotten Realms D&D sets; I bought them too... but I own several seperate anthology disc sets with the same games included and owning those does not entitle me to —take— an installer for them (from GoG or any other), to replace a disc of mine that got lost or damaged. Edited February 22, 2018 by Gizmo
LadyCrimson Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 So, I heard about a FFXV PC/Steam demo and went to check the game announcements. There's a demo all right, or will be on the 26th (tutorial and Chapt 1). Which will likely be a better "can I run it" barometer then the benchmark tool was. But...ROFL, also, this: omg, hahaha - the crossover madness continues. The Half-Life Festival won't be long behind, right? Although, whacking things in the game with the crowbar may be fun. 5 “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Fenixp Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) or downloading that torrent because they've convinced themselves they are owed it—when they are not.Neither creators nor distributors owe you anything, therefore, you can't demand any additional services of them. However, with software, you're paying for the license to use it, not for the media. You could easily think of the discs containing the software as a freebie you got along with your license for ease of use. Software companies, including gaming companies, have sold software in form of licenses for ages now - in order to gain higher degree of control over their end product. And as long as the creators themselves treat their creations in this way, I see no reason to treat them differently. Case in point: I own two or more retail disc installers for Planescape:Torment. That does not entitle me to Gog's packaged Planescape installer—which I also bought, for the service of having a turn-key installer for that game. It's the same with their Forgotten Realms D&D sets; I bought them too... but I own several seperate anthology disc sets with the same games included and owning those does not entitle me to —take— an installer for them (from GoG or any other), to replace a disc of mine that got lost or damaged.You're entirely correct, owning a disk-based version of Planescape Torment only entitles you to then getting the same version of Planescape: Torment you've paid for in the first place - neither Steam, nor GOG, nor Enhanced Edition. I can't speak for Pink Floyd as music licensing works a bit differently to software licensing. Edited February 22, 2018 by Fenixp
Fenixp Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Anyway, Ubisoft... Alters the past in order for it to be politically correct: https://twitter.com/timsoret/status/966394424782655488/photo/1 Y'know, paired with the outrage of Kingdom Come: Deliverance having no black people and me just finishing 1984 for the first time (I know, finally) I kinda realized just how much truth was there to the "1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual" quote. Do you realize that the past, starting from yesterday, has been actually abolished? If it survives anywhere, it's in a few solid objects with no words attached to them, like that lump of glass there. ... Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. I know, of course, that the past is falsified, but it would never be possible for me to prove it, even when I did the falsification myself. After the thing is done, no evidence ever remains. The only evidence is inside my own mind, and I don't know with any certainty that any other human being shares my memories. Edited February 22, 2018 by Fenixp
Raithe Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Since this is the random game thread, I'll just skip the politics and philosophy to throw this batch of webisodes about Vampyr. We've got the first somewhere here, but I don't think the rest have turned up just yet , so here ya go... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JoQ3Vqzcc&list=PLzQNCgQ0GV7biShXITgZctYvEF6xoVD7e& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJYxRXhyxdg&list=PLzQNCgQ0GV7biShXITgZctYvEF6xoVD7e& 3 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Raithe Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCE_dsiR2Q& 2 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
injurai Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 HL3 better be revealed come E3 on account of this. Valve has played it loose and easy for too long to be pulling cross-promotional stuff with a dead series.
LadyCrimson Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 HL3 better be revealed come E3 on account of this. Valve has played it loose and easy for too long to be pulling cross-promotional stuff with a dead series. "With (FFXV's new) first person mode, this will be the closest thing we get to Half Life 3." --- a post on another forum 1 “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
majestic Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 I can't speak for Pink Floyd as music licensing works a bit differently to software licensing. Having a copy of a record for private use is specifically stated not to be a case of copyright infringement in the US and most of the EU (the UK being a major exception here). One might find it morally objectionable but it's not illegal in the same way some nations handle drug possession where having a small amount of recreational drugs for private use isn't illegal but the act of selling and producing them is. Of course that means one can't legally acquire a blunt or two but you can smoke them without fear of legal action. So, not sure why discussing Pink Floyd is still a thing. No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.
Gfted1 Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 I just cant wrap my head around the fact that you can download the entirety of human music, so long as you only use it for yourself. I believe you, it just sounds utterly absurd. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
HoonDing Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 I can't wrap my head around the fact the entire accumulated knowledge of humanity is three clicks away yet ppl are more ignorant than ever. 10 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Gfted1 Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Amen, brother/sister! "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Malcador Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 I can't wrap my head around the fact the entire accumulated knowledge of humanity is three clicks away yet ppl are more ignorant than ever.Using a mouse ? Casual. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
the_dog_days Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 So, I heard about a FFXV PC/Steam demo and went to check the game announcements. There's a demo all right, or will be on the 26th (tutorial and Chapt 1). Which will likely be a better "can I run it" barometer then the benchmark tool was. But...ROFL, also, this: omg, hahaha - the crossover madness continues. The Half-Life Festival won't be long behind, right? Although, whacking things in the game with the crowbar may be fun. Is that video translated correctly? He said you have one of two possible downloads, one of 100 GB and the other 155 GB. The heck. Does Square Enix not know how to compress file size?
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