Paladin Order Talents

[theBalthazar]

Ya I didn’t even mention their marking capabilities which is a dragon killer. 

 

I agree with Boer on fighters on PoTD...that being said I think they are bad ass in Dragon Fights combined with a Paladin marking they can reliably prone a dragon and hit him hard. The Paladin + Fighter is my favorite dragon hunter combo. Fighters can prone dragons better than monks cause of Disciplined Barrage, combined with a Paladin mark it’s really good for knockdowns. A monk has to first have the wounds...which can be dangerous in a dragon fight. 

 

 

Lol... We have play on same game ?

 

Fighter/Paladins are the slowest killer of a dragon.

 

Try a Druid (Main) + Druid + Priest + Wizard + Chanter + Barbarian. (My fav compo glass canon)

 

Wizard or Barbarian replaced by a ranger at my leisure according to the situation.

 

 

Impossible ible to say Fighter or Paladin are better than that during all the game. One of the most effective. Perhaps the best team. I have try others configurations (including paladins and fighters), nothing arrive to that level of synergy.

 

Well, it's highly subjective. 

 

 

Obviously. but you put Paladin where ? Apart last ? First of the list ? : p

 

At higher levels Chanter is a lot more useful than Rogue

 

 

Indeed ! If I noted function to level 9+, chanter is easy high tier. Problem, he is really bad level 1-8. So he down a little. So I agree with you. Rogue suffer of the problem of bottleneck effect, except with a fast melee weapon. But in this case, he is extremely fragile. It is a choice, he is not bad, but not crazy.

 

EDIT : And an old assertion :

 

 

The fact alone that a paladin can raise a single ally's accuracy by +46 (Coordinated Attacks + Marking Weapon + Marking Weapon + Zealous Endurance + Inspiring Exhortation), 40 of them stackable with everything, makes him no. 1 support against dragons and other hard-to-hit enemies. Even with only Coordinated Attacks + Marking + ZF it's 26, 20 of them stackable with everything.

 

 

You can have +100 accuracy, nothing replace an AoE attack of wizard, barbarian, priest and Druid. Debuff of wizard/druid, AoE immnuities, fast attack of a cat spiritshifting, +25 % fire damage of chanter+dragon thrashed, and even stormcaller + a pet with a ranger.

 

Yes you crit and you have +50 % fire damage, but one target and very slowly...

 

So yes my tiers list is totally glass cannon oriented. I dislike tank and co. but globally the purpose of the game is to beat foes. Not turn arround : p

 

+ I have no problem to hit dragons. Devotion of the faithul + Debuff of Wizard/Priest/Druid. (very wide choice...)

Edited February 7, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Torm51]

 

Ya I didn’t even mention their marking capabilities which is a dragon killer. 

 

I agree with Boer on fighters on PoTD...that being said I think they are bad ass in Dragon Fights combined with a Paladin marking they can reliably prone a dragon and hit him hard. The Paladin + Fighter is my favorite dragon hunter combo. Fighters can prone dragons better than monks cause of Disciplined Barrage, combined with a Paladin mark it’s really good for knockdowns. A monk has to first have the wounds...which can be dangerous in a dragon fight. 

 

 

Lol... We have play on same game ?

 

Fighter/Paladins are the slowest killer of a dragon.

 

Try a Druid (Main) + Druid + Priest + Wizard + Chanter + Barbarian. (My fav compo glass canon)

 

Wizard or Barbarian replaced by a ranger at my leisure according to the situation.

 

 

Impossible ible to say Fighter or Paladin are better than that during all the game. One of the most effective. Perhaps the best team. I have try others configurations (including paladins and fighters), nothing arrive to that level of synergy.

 

Well, it's highly subjective. 

 

 

Obviously. but you put Paladin where ? Apart last ? First of the list ? : p

 

At higher levels Chanter is a lot more useful than Rogue

 

 

Indeed ! If I noted function to level 9+, chanter is easy high tier. Problem, he is really bad level 1-8. So he down a little. So I agree with you. Rogue suffer of the problem of bottleneck effect, except with a fast melee weapon. But in this case, he is extremely fragile. It is a choice, he is not bad, but not crazy.

 

EDIT : And an old assertion :

 

 

The fact alone that a paladin can raise a single ally's accuracy by +46 (Coordinated Attacks + Marking Weapon + Marking Weapon + Zealous Endurance + Inspiring Exhortation), 40 of them stackable with everything, makes him no. 1 support against dragons and other hard-to-hit enemies. Even with only Coordinated Attacks + Marking + ZF it's 26, 20 of them stackable with everything.

 

 

You can have +100 accuracy, nothing replace an AoE attack of wizard, barbarian, priest and Druid. Debuff of wizard/druid, AoE immnuities, fast attack of a cat spiritshifting, +25 % fire damage of chanter+dragon thrashed, and even stormcaller + a pet with a ranger.

 

Yes you crit and you have +50 % fire damage, but one target and very slowly...

 

So yes my tiers list is totally glass cannon oriented. I dislike tank and co. but globally the purpose of the game is to beat foes. Not turn arround : p

 

+ I have no problem to hit dragons. Devotion of the faithul + Debuff of Wizard/Priest/Druid. (very wide choice...)

 

Definitely not the fastest dragon killers.  They can just reliably keep a dragon out of the fight together.  Thanks to huge ACC boosts and Prone.  If you stack this like you said with priest buffs (which you can) The fighter will have a HUGE ACC bonus and not only prone the Dragon but kill him in a good amount of time while the dragon is doing nothing cause he is prone.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat so yes the other ways you mentioned to kill a dragon are definitely effective.  That being said if you play PoTD you will need more than 100 Accuracy to reliably CC a dragon or tough enemy.  You can achieve this in one way by stacking Paladin ACC marking with Devotions of the Faithful.  So ya priest is great.  Also yes Druid and Wizard are AWESOME for AOE and downing trash mobs.  A paladin can also help here with Sacred Immolation.

 

I do not think anything you said is wrong in your second post but your first tier post is subjective.

 

PS just finished a Triple Crown Party play through and the Paladin was 3rd in damage (154k total not terrible as that is not his main purpose) behind the storm tank druid second (156k) and 1st place low and behold the Great Weapon (Tidefall) Fighter with 220k total.  So a two handed fighter destroyed both the Paladin (not surprising) and the Druid. Granted if i had made the druid a Shapes shifter DW shock lash full damage dealer the fighter likely would not have won but I took the safe route.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Torm51

[Torm51]

Again, entirely subjective, but I think the paladin builds that were used for The Ultimate are incredibly unfun to actually play, ut saying that they're weak is pretty objectively wrong.

This.  

[Taurus]

Do glass cannons builds work on PoTD?

[Torm51]

Do glass cannons builds work on PoTD?

You can win with glass cannons with enough CC on PoTD. I just play different. Every single one of my back liners has some emergency ability that makes them much harder to hit or unhittable for a duration. Just in case they take heat. This gives me time to CC or focus fire the offending enemy.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Torm51

[KDubya]

 

Do glass cannons builds work on PoTD?

You can win with glass cannons with enough CC on PoTD. I just play different. Every single one of my back liners has some emergency ability that makes them much harder to hit or unhittable for a duration. Just in case they take heat. This gives me time to CC or focus fire the offending enemy.

 

 

It also greatly depends on how you view knockouts and resting. I try to finish a PoTD run through with as few KO as possible so I favor durable builds like monks, paladins and Chanters while avoiding any glass cannons or even casters and priests to keep the difficulty up.

 

My teams might not even have any backline, everyone is a frontline melee with mutual support from auras, chants, and healing (from the consecrated boots). If no one is squishy then no one has to be defended.

[theBalthazar]

Glass cannons = C.C. for me.

 

And the fastest way to finish a battle. (purpose of the game).

 

Paladin 154 k. hum...

 

All depends the way to play. There is a problem if paladin = druid. You use a lot a spells ?

[Torm51]

Glass cannons = C.C. for me.

 

And the fastest way to finish a battle. (purpose of the game).

 

Paladin 154 k. hum...

 

All depends the way to play. There is a problem if paladin = druid. You use a lot a spells ?

Ya not a terrible amount of damage for a non damage dealer I say.  Sacred Immolation man! What Impressed me was the Great Weapon Fighter. 220k is really good.  Its start SHOOTING high when you give the Fighter Charge.  I would target his last enemy on the charge with my paladin, marking him (you do not have to be in melee range) just have the target selected and Eder would hit/crit everything on the way for about 80 to 100 damage and have crits in the 180s.   He also most of the time had Devotions of the Faithful so it was about a +40 to ACC with Disciplined Barrage lol.  Hit  Concelhaut for like 200 Crush damage, he then took a fire crit from sacred immolation for about 80 and a sunlance crit and he was dead WAY before his buddies lmao.

 

On the druid I just played it safe with a Storm tank.  So yes if I would of gone spirit shift duel wield the druid would of DEFINITELY beat the paladin and the fighter.  Again i went the safe route, Weapon and shield style and all saves talents, then just stand in the middle of the mob firing off storms.  In a tough fight I would also use avenging storm with a dagger, always used a buckler so very quick hits.  Also yes I would stand the druid in the middle and spam spells in hard fights.  

Edited February 8, 2018 by Torm51

[fiddlesticks]

Again, entirely subjective, but I think the paladin builds that were used for The Ultimate are incredibly unfun to actually play, ut saying that they're weak is pretty objectively wrong.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "unfun". They're slow at the beginning, but that's true of solo PotD in general. They can hold their own well enough and once you pick up Sacred Immolation at level 13, you become an engine of destruction.

 

Which brings up something that is often ignored in these tier discussions: class balance is not constant across all levels. Considering the prevalent view on these forums seems to be that the early game is the hardest part on PotD, shouldn't we rate classes like Monk or Ranger, which start out very powerful, higher than the Priest, which takes a few levels to unlock its full potential? What about the Barbarian whose power depends as much on equipment as on Abilities. Or the Chanter for whom the difference between level 8 and 9 is night and day?

 

On top of that, how much does effort factor into the power discussion? Priests are undeniably strong, but buffing up for every important fight can quickly become tedious. A Fighter with high Lore is a better wizard than the actual Wizard, but that requires you to spend time on the crafting system. On the other end of the spectrum you have Chanters, which a lot of players dislike precisely because they require little to no effort to use.

[Torm51]

 

Again, entirely subjective, but I think the paladin builds that were used for The Ultimate are incredibly unfun to actually play, ut saying that they're weak is pretty objectively wrong.

I wouldn't necessarily say "unfun". They're slow at the beginning, but that's true of solo PotD in general. They can hold their own well enough and once you pick up Sacred Immolation at level 13, you become an engine of destruction.

 

Which brings up something that is often ignored in these tier discussions: class balance is not constant across all levels. Considering the prevalent view on these forums seems to be that the early game is the hardest part on PotD, shouldn't we rate classes like Monk or Ranger, which start out very powerful, higher than the Priest, which takes a few levels to unlock its full potential? What about the Barbarian whose power depends as much on equipment as on Abilities. Or the Chanter for whom the difference between level 8 and 9 is night and day?

 

On top of that, how much does effort factor into the power discussion? Priests are undeniably strong, but buffing up for every important fight can quickly become tedious. A Fighter with high Lore is a better wizard than the actual Wizard, but that requires you to spend time on the crafting system. On the other end of the spectrum you have Chanters, which a lot of players dislike precisely because they require little to no effort to use.

Very true.

[theBalthazar]

Best starters for me : (top 4)

 

- Ranger

- Barbarian

- Monk

- Druid

 

- Wizard

- Cipher

- Priest

- Rogue

- Paladin

- Fighter

- Chanter

 

Wizard and priest needs few levels (even if wizard is not weak as people say with his level 0 ability AoE raw damages..) . Chanter need level 9+. etc.

Rogue is too frail. Paladins and fighters are slow and mono-target. Cipher have not crazy possibilities but catch up quickly with a few levels. Barbarian with a full start concept of carnage. Range with his pet is very safe. Druid is a beast with spiritshifting with glass canon approach.

Edited February 8, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Torm51]

Best starters for me : (top 4)

 

- Ranger

- Barbarian

- Monk

- Druid

 

- Wizard

- Cipher

- Priest

- Rogue

- Paladin

- Fighter

- Chanter

 

Wizard and priest needs few levels (even if wizard is not weak as people say with his level 0 ability AoE raw damages..) . Chanter need level 9+. etc.

Rogue is too frail. Paladins and fighters are slow and mono-target. Cipher have not crazy possibilities but catch up quickly with a few levels. Barbarian with a full start concept of carnage. Range with his pet is very safe. Druid is a beast with spiritshifting with glass canon approach.

Dude! A Paladin is mono target up to level 13.  Once they get Sacred Immolation they are AOE death machines.  

Edited February 8, 2018 by Torm51

[theBalthazar]

 A Paladin is mono target up to level 13.

 

 

 

level 13

 

 

 

13

 

 

Yes. The end of  the game : p And only 20-30.

 

During this time with Wizard. 50-80 on a cone. (level 9)

Edited February 8, 2018 by theBalthazar

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The Paladins gets it for 30 sec every encounter while the Wizard gets it 4 times per rest. That means you've got to rest a lot more for the Wizard and do backtracking when your 2 camping supplies run out, or play conservatively and watch the Paladin outdo your blasts or spell mastery. A fully rested Wizard/Priest/Druid will dominate the other classes, but a few tough encounters down the line and they significantly fall in usefullness while other classes (mostly)stay the same.

[dunehunter]

So we fall into a discussion between per encounter and per rest abilities again

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So we fall into a discussion between per encounter and per rest abilities again

Well it is relevant to the power of abilities in PoE and a reason to tune previously per rest abilities for Deadfire. As it is now I think capping spells at 2 per encounter for each level is a decent enough solution to this(if they fix casting times), but if some classes are consistently ahead or behind that is indicative of balance issues and should be addressed.

[KDubya]

Best starters for me : (top 4)

 

- Ranger

- Barbarian

- Monk

- Druid

 

- Wizard

- Cipher

- Priest

- Rogue

- Paladin

- Fighter

- Chanter

 

Wizard and priest needs few levels (even if wizard is not weak as people say with his level 0 ability AoE raw damages..) . Chanter need level 9+. etc.

Rogue is too frail. Paladins and fighters are slow and mono-target. Cipher have not crazy possibilities but catch up quickly with a few levels. Barbarian with a full start concept of carnage. Range with his pet is very safe. Druid is a beast with spiritshifting with glass canon approach.

 

Concerning the Barbarian at start: If you are talking about the Berserker you need to consider the malus of the self damage and the friendly fire of carnage due to berserk. In the Beta at level 6+ you have enough health and access to healing to pretty much ignore this damage but at level 1-3 you might have real issues with killing yourself or your team.

 

I'd put paladin up in the best starters. You get FoD for a nice damage burst and you can have LoH for a nice heal. Both sound pretty good for low level. Add in Deep Faith at level two for a massive +20 boost to all defense and you are the best in the game at that point in my opinion.

[dunehunter]

 

Best starters for me : (top 4)

 

- Ranger

- Barbarian

- Monk

- Druid

 

- Wizard

- Cipher

- Priest

- Rogue

- Paladin

- Fighter

- Chanter

 

Wizard and priest needs few levels (even if wizard is not weak as people say with his level 0 ability AoE raw damages..) . Chanter need level 9+. etc.

Rogue is too frail. Paladins and fighters are slow and mono-target. Cipher have not crazy possibilities but catch up quickly with a few levels. Barbarian with a full start concept of carnage. Range with his pet is very safe. Druid is a beast with spiritshifting with glass canon approach.

 

Concerning the Barbarian at start: If you are talking about the Berserker you need to consider the malus of the self damage and the friendly fire of carnage due to berserk. In the Beta at level 6+ you have enough health and access to healing to pretty much ignore this damage but at level 1-3 you might have real issues with killing yourself or your team.

 

I'd put paladin up in the best starters. You get FoD for a nice damage burst and you can have LoH for a nice heal. Both sound pretty good for low level. Add in Deep Faith at level two for a massive +20 boost to all defense and you are the best in the game at that point in my opinion.

 

 

I think he is talking about PoE 1 not 2.

[Yosharian]

I'm attracted to Paladin for powergaming reasons but I don't really like the idea of the role-playing restrictions.  Which is odd as I never had a problem playing a Paladin in BG2 but somehow in Pillars 1 they seemed... off-putting.

[Torm51]

I'm attracted to Paladin for powergaming reasons but I don't really like the idea of the role-playing restrictions. Which is odd as I never had a problem playing a Paladin in BG2 but somehow in Pillars 1 they seemed... off-putting.

I liked them both I like the different take POE has. To each his own

[Witness41920]

I haven't gotten to play too much of the beta (sadly) but from what I've seen of the Paladin Orders, they seem pretty fitting. You get some interesting bonuses and some interesting penalties. 

 

You can see what effects are changed by your choice of Order on the level up (skills) page if you're curious. 

[Elkor_Alish]

Well, I have to say that my first character was a Pale Elf Shieldbearer. My first run was disastrous, I tried putting all of my perk points into raising defenses -for all party members- thinking I could turtle my way through the game. Every fight was a slog. Even after raising the level cap with the White Marches I couldn't beat the dragons, I never actually finished that run. I ended up taking a contract out of state and when I returned I bought a new computer, never bothering with the old files.

 

So second run was also a Paladin, also a Pale Elf, only difference was opting for Kind Wayfarer. Stat wise, phys stats were all ten, Resolve was eighteen, Perception and Intelligence were somewhere between 12 and 14 with Perception being the higher. Knowing a little about what I was in for, I built him entirely around passive skills and abilities because I loathe micromanaging. He was brutally effective, damn near indestructible but only with team support. Even combat with the dragons never lasted longer than thirty seconds. The only engagement that I remember having to tackle twice was the Guardian behind the sealed door in the Paths Below.

 

I won my Frozen Triple Crown Solo with a priest. I could never make Durance's AI effective, or even helpful, but for some reason soloing as a Eothasian Priest was just. . .Ridiculously easy. Even easier than the Triple Crown Solo I took with a wizard (I had to look up the hidden achievements and do the whole thing twice, which annoyed the **** out of me).

 

Some classes are better than others, but none are really awful. It is just a matter of sorting out how to use them I tend to think. Eder, for instance, built around two handed War Hammers and equipped with Abydon's Hammer absolutely wrecks, especially once you slap Savage on him and  that passive that does more damage as the enemy loses health. He pretty much took out the Sky Dragon by himself.