What multiclasses have you played with so far?

[Boeroer]

That makes me want to check if the new Concelhaut's Parasitic Touch also gets a bonus from Transcendent Suffering.

 

The Priests of Woedica might not get multiclassed with monks - but they will have access to Monastic Unarmed Training...

 

The best solution would be to implement them like Ogre's fists (Transmuster): they are their own weapon (that look like fists but are not "real" fists - like spiritshift weapons basically) that scale with level but don't benefit from Transcendent Suffering/Monastic Unarmed Training.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Boeroer

[SaruNi]

Was also able to add priest of Woedica "soul power" ability: +1 all power levels, not an Inspiration so it should stack with Acute. Obviously goes well with Transcendant Suffering....

 

Would it be so shocking if Xoti had the option to switch from Monk/Priest of Gaun to Monk/Priest of Woedica?... maybe her stats will be bad enough to balance it.

 

Could bring up Priests of Woedica and Watershapers using the console and attack them to try to infer their full range of abilities....

Edited April 14, 2018 by SaruNi

[AndreaColombo]

Going by memory from the latest stream, Xoti's got decent DEX and INT and meh everything else.

[TheMetaphysician]

So...any druid/chanter synergy ideas?

[Boeroer]

Troubadour/Livegiver: Ancient Memory + Moonwell = undying party I guess?

[Yosharian]

Going by memory from the latest stream, Xoti's got decent DEX and INT and meh everything else.

Using companions is ultimate hard mode, forget POTD

 

Like driving the short bus

[Raven Darkholme]

 

Going by memory from the latest stream, Xoti's got decent DEX and INT and meh everything else.

Using companions is ultimate hard mode, forget POTD

 

Like driving the short bus

 

Don't companions get a level advantage over recruits anymore, as they did in PoE 1?

I remember picking Kana and GM in my trio party, just so I can get Dragon chant/Mindweb asap.

When I reached level 16 and could have switched to recruits (it was my original plan to do so) the stats just didn't matter anymore because a level 16 party of three is so op they could have had not used all statpoints and still stomped the game.

And well before level 15 and op mindweb I still felt like getting dragon chant one level earlier and having an ability/talent/power more than I would have on recruits more than made up for not having ideal stats.

 

But since I don't have the beta I wouldn't know if recruits still lose a level over companions, but I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one solo PotD video, so I don't see how companions would hinder you from playing PotD.

[Boeroer]

Using companions is ultimate hard mode, forget POTD

 

Like driving the short bus

People keep saying this - but usually it's not based on actual experience but hearsay.

 

Not in PoE and I guess also not in Deadfire is playing with official companions harder than with hirelings in general.

 

Because stats have rel. little impact and official companions start one level above hirelings - which is a huge advantage over non-optimized stat point distribution.

 

Some of the official companions even have unique abilites (like Pallegina's Wrath of the Five Suns, Zahua's Anitlei, Maneha's Clean Conscience/Satisfied Mind or the afflicition immunities of the Devil of Caroc) which hirelings can never get.

 

Also people are soloing PoE/Deadfire beta on PotD. Why should adding official companions make them aboandon it?

 

Don't companions get a level advantage over recruits anymore, as they did in PoE 1?

They still do. Edited April 15, 2018 by Boeroer

[Yosharian]

 

 

Going by memory from the latest stream, Xoti's got decent DEX and INT and meh everything else.

Using companions is ultimate hard mode, forget POTD

 

Like driving the short bus

Don't companions get a level advantage over recruits anymore, as they did in PoE 1?

I remember picking Kana and GM in my trio party, just so I can get Dragon chant/Mindweb asap.

When I reached level 16 and could have switched to recruits (it was my original plan to do so) the stats just didn't matter anymore because a level 16 party of three is so op they could have had not used all statpoints and still stomped the game.

And well before level 15 and op mindweb I still felt like getting dragon chant one level earlier and having an ability/talent/power more than I would have on recruits more than made up for not having ideal stats.

 

But since I don't have the beta I wouldn't know if recruits still lose a level over companions, but I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one solo PotD video, so I don't see how companions would hinder you from playing PotD.

I mean I was mostly speaking in jest but some of the companions in POE1 have really bad stats.

 

Durance for example has such poor perception that his offensive spells are useless, at least early on anyway. His resolve is more or less wasted on a priest.

[Boeroer]

Haha - man you should really put a smiley here and there - just for us guys with the withered humor sensors.

 

Yeah, official c.' stats are not optimal for every build one wants to try.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

Does Durance have less than 10 Per?

I find myself not going above 10 per with a lot of classes lately, ofc sometimes I respec for dragon fights, which wouldn't work on a companion, but I mostly solo, so I don't think 10 per in a party is that bad, especially priests can boost accuracy like crazy.

[JerekKruger]

Does Durance have less than 10 Per?

I find myself not going above 10 per with a lot of classes lately, ofc sometimes I respec for dragon fights, which wouldn't work on a companion, but I mostly solo, so I don't think 10 per in a party is that bad, especially priests can boost accuracy like crazy.

 

Durance has Perception 9. Not a big difference from 10 for a class that, as you mention, can boost Accuracy massively.

[Yosharian]

Does Durance have less than 10 Per?

I find myself not going above 10 per with a lot of classes lately, ofc sometimes I respec for dragon fights, which wouldn't work on a companion, but I mostly solo, so I don't think 10 per in a party is that bad, especially priests can boost accuracy like crazy.

Durance reliably misses all offensive spells on POTD, even with accuracy buffs online

 

Meanwhile that extra 6 deflection sure is useful..not.

 

But it's more of an annoyance than a crucial problem. As long as he can make my party immune to domination he can sit in the corner jerking himself off for the rest of each fight for all it matters

[Aravane]

This seems like a pretty active thread generally focused on multiclass combinations, and I've been considering the character build for my PC now that the mechanics are mostly finalized. So I thought I'd get some feedback here from the people who actually have the backer beta.

I'm pretty set on going with some kind of gish build. Wizards and Soul Blades seem like a good base for that in Deadfire, and I've always been partial to Monks (that's what I decided on in the one PoE1 playthrough I ended up sticking with - had a lot of restarts ). I generally really like the flavor of those three classes. Though I'm not totally opposed to taking a different class if there's a compelling reason... I'm just not sure what's actually viable/synergetic.

Melee wizards seem to be based around summoned weapons (and self buffs). The summoned weapons are AFAIK all 2-handers - does that mean melee wizards are locked into going with two-handed style? Is the "universal" weapon property from PoE1 still a thing here? Is this summoned weapons schtick even good, considering you have to cast them at the start of every fight and that 2-handers seem like the inferior option in Deadfire?

Multiclass wizards get access to summoned weapons up to level 7, so Citzal's Spirit Lance and maybe Llengrath's Warding staff (which sounds more defensive) would be their strongest. How convinced are we that the summoned weapons will stay competitive with the artifact weapons we'll be able to find? There's (probably) also the Citzal's Enchanted Armory at level 9, which seems to suggest a single class approach even for a melee wizard.

I've been considering a Soul Blade/Wizard multiclass - it seems like Soul Annihilation (a primary attack AFAIK) would work well with the 2H summoned weapons, the various wizard buffs would cover defensive weaknesses, and other Cipher/Wizard powers could make for a utility sideboard. But I'm worried the combination will be too weak defensively - I want a frontliner. But maybe the right attribute distribution can cover for that? And spending ages buffing yourself at the start of every fight isn't terribly attractive.

I also have my doubts about the Soul Blade. I like the soul whip and some of the passive options, and I really like the Soul Annihilation... But are the active Cipher powers any use for a melee fighter? I had a bad time trying to make a melee Cipher work in PoE1. And Soul Annhilation is a primary attack, which seems best suited to 2-handers, apparently the weakest weapon type.

The monk might be able to round out either of those classes for a frontliner combination, and I enjoy their flavor more than the other martial classes. Good passive boosts, Swift Strikes... Their strong spammable active melee abilities seem like they'd work well to utilize the power of a buffed wizard with a summoned weapon, or they could be interweaved with Soul Annihilations. But one of their key features - the powerful fists - are wasted on a wizard using summoned weapons, and AFAIK they're not especially effective with the primary attack of the Soul Annhilation.

Feel free to tell me if I'm missing some other, obviously superior class combination for this kind of character archetype. I gather that fighters are strong, but I find them kind of bland (though the cleave sounds cool/overpowered). The paladin orders feel a bit limiting in terms of RP... I'm probably running Pallegina anyway and it feels "wasteful" to double up on a class with only 5 party members (though I actually think that's a good move from OBS as a whole).

 

Using companions is ultimate hard mode, forget POTD

Like driving the short bus

I kind of feel like the companion stories and personalities are a huge part of the game. Can't really imagine going with a mercenary party unless I felt like I'd exhausted all the companion content in previous playthroughs already. I did end modifying companion attributes a little for my PoE1 playthrough (using the Unity Assets Extractor). I didn't actually minmax, just shuffled the attributes around slightly - I think that was a nice compromise between RP and gameplay. Plus I actually globally raised the XP requirements by 25% in that playthrough, so I didn't feel like I was cheating to make it easy on myself. But that's a whole tangent on difficulty that doesn't really belong in this thread...

[Frog Man]

 

Does Durance have less than 10 Per?

I find myself not going above 10 per with a lot of classes lately, ofc sometimes I respec for dragon fights, which wouldn't work on a companion, but I mostly solo, so I don't think 10 per in a party is that bad, especially priests can boost accuracy like crazy.

Durance reliably misses all offensive spells on POTD, even with accuracy buffs online

 

Meanwhile that extra 6 deflection sure is useful..not.

 

But it's more of an annoyance than a crucial problem. As long as he can make my party immune to domination he can sit in the corner jerking himself off for the rest of each fight for all it matters

This got a hearty LOL from me. So crass.

[amirpz]

could anybody explain all the active/passive abilities of all priest sub types? if you have any link to pictures or videos of each ability .... frankly anything at this point I would be grateful.

[KDubya]

This seems like a pretty active thread generally focused on multiclass combinations, and I've been considering the character build for my PC now that the mechanics are mostly finalized. So I thought I'd get some feedback here from the people who actually have the backer beta.

 

I'm pretty set on going with some kind of gish build. Wizards and Soul Blades seem like a good base for that in Deadfire, and I've always been partial to Monks (that's what I decided on in the one PoE1 playthrough I ended up sticking with - had a lot of restarts ). I generally really like the flavor of those three classes. Though I'm not totally opposed to taking a different class if there's a compelling reason... I'm just not sure what's actually viable/synergetic.

 

Melee wizards seem to be based around summoned weapons (and self buffs). The summoned weapons are AFAIK all 2-handers - does that mean melee wizards are locked into going with two-handed style? Is the "universal" weapon property from PoE1 still a thing here? Is this summoned weapons schtick even good, considering you have to cast them at the start of every fight and that 2-handers seem like the inferior option in Deadfire?

 

Multiclass wizards get access to summoned weapons up to level 7, so Citzal's Spirit Lance and maybe Llengrath's Warding staff (which sounds more defensive) would be their strongest. How convinced are we that the summoned weapons will stay competitive with the artifact weapons we'll be able to find? There's (probably) also the Citzal's Enchanted Armory at level 9, which seems to suggest a single class approach even for a melee wizard.

 

I've been considering a Soul Blade/Wizard multiclass - it seems like Soul Annihilation (a primary attack AFAIK) would work well with the 2H summoned weapons, the various wizard buffs would cover defensive weaknesses, and other Cipher/Wizard powers could make for a utility sideboard. But I'm worried the combination will be too weak defensively - I want a frontliner. But maybe the right attribute distribution can cover for that? And spending ages buffing yourself at the start of every fight isn't terribly attractive.

 

I also have my doubts about the Soul Blade. I like the soul whip and some of the passive options, and I really like the Soul Annihilation... But are the active Cipher powers any use for a melee fighter? I had a bad time trying to make a melee Cipher work in PoE1. And Soul Annhilation is a primary attack, which seems best suited to 2-handers, apparently the weakest weapon type.

 

The monk might be able to round out either of those classes for a frontliner combination, and I enjoy their flavor more than the other martial classes. Good passive boosts, Swift Strikes... Their strong spammable active melee abilities seem like they'd work well to utilize the power of a buffed wizard with a summoned weapon, or they could be interweaved with Soul Annihilations. But one of their key features - the powerful fists - are wasted on a wizard using summoned weapons, and AFAIK they're not especially effective with the primary attack of the Soul Annhilation.

 

Feel free to tell me if I'm missing some other, obviously superior class combination for this kind of character archetype. I gather that fighters are strong, but I find them kind of bland (though the cleave sounds cool/overpowered). The paladin orders feel a bit limiting in terms of RP... I'm probably running Pallegina anyway and it feels "wasteful" to double up on a class with only 5 party members (though I actually think that's a good move from OBS as a whole).

 

 

Using companions is ultimate hard mode, forget POTD

 

Like driving the short bus

I kind of feel like the companion stories and personalities are a huge part of the game. Can't really imagine going with a mercenary party unless I felt like I'd exhausted all the companion content in previous playthroughs already. I did end modifying companion attributes a little for my PoE1 playthrough (using the Unity Assets Extractor). I didn't actually minmax, just shuffled the attributes around slightly - I think that was a nice compromise between RP and gameplay. Plus I actually globally raised the XP requirements by 25% in that playthrough, so I didn't feel like I was cheating to make it easy on myself. But that's a whole tangent on difficulty that doesn't really belong in this thread...

 

Two handed weapons do less than dual wielding but are still plenty viable for use on PotD, so don't discount Wizards and their summoned weapons for that reason.

 

The Wizard has lots of instant cast buffs that can be set up in the AI to automatically cast at the start of combat or when they run out. Makes buffing really easy. 

 

A Wizard (generalist)/Soul Blade will get decent deflection and protection from the illusion buffs like mirror image and will end up more tanky than many fighters and paladins. Fire off a Swift Feet, a Vitality of mortal essence and a mirror image and you'll spend like 1.2 seconds and get +5 dex, +5 con, and +30 (I think) deflection. I think summoned weapons take 3 seconds so if you start from stealth with a spell like fireball, combat starts and activates your buffs, summon your staff while your other party members move to engage and then you can attack from the second row with the two handed reach and add in soul annihilation as desired to splat enemies. It should be a pretty cool and viable character on any difficulty.

 

A Monk (I prefer Shattered Pillar)/Soul Blade will do an outstanding job. If you will use fists go with Nature Godlike for the power level buff.

 

A Shattered Pillar/Wizard using summoned weapons is also viable. I'd go with the summoned weapons so that'd be two handed style instead of dual wielding but either or both could work as well. Using the reach of two handed you could stay behind the line and get good use of dance of death for a +12 accuracy buff while generating wounds by causing damage.

[Yosharian]

 

This seems like a pretty active thread generally focused on multiclass combinations, and I've been considering the character build for my PC now that the mechanics are mostly finalized. So I thought I'd get some feedback here from the people who actually have the backer beta.

 

I'm pretty set on going with some kind of gish build. Wizards and Soul Blades seem like a good base for that in Deadfire, and I've always been partial to Monks (that's what I decided on in the one PoE1 playthrough I ended up sticking with - had a lot of restarts ). I generally really like the flavor of those three classes. Though I'm not totally opposed to taking a different class if there's a compelling reason... I'm just not sure what's actually viable/synergetic.

 

Melee wizards seem to be based around summoned weapons (and self buffs). The summoned weapons are AFAIK all 2-handers - does that mean melee wizards are locked into going with two-handed style? Is the "universal" weapon property from PoE1 still a thing here? Is this summoned weapons schtick even good, considering you have to cast them at the start of every fight and that 2-handers seem like the inferior option in Deadfire?

 

Multiclass wizards get access to summoned weapons up to level 7, so Citzal's Spirit Lance and maybe Llengrath's Warding staff (which sounds more defensive) would be their strongest. How convinced are we that the summoned weapons will stay competitive with the artifact weapons we'll be able to find? There's (probably) also the Citzal's Enchanted Armory at level 9, which seems to suggest a single class approach even for a melee wizard.

 

I've been considering a Soul Blade/Wizard multiclass - it seems like Soul Annihilation (a primary attack AFAIK) would work well with the 2H summoned weapons, the various wizard buffs would cover defensive weaknesses, and other Cipher/Wizard powers could make for a utility sideboard. But I'm worried the combination will be too weak defensively - I want a frontliner. But maybe the right attribute distribution can cover for that? And spending ages buffing yourself at the start of every fight isn't terribly attractive.

 

I also have my doubts about the Soul Blade. I like the soul whip and some of the passive options, and I really like the Soul Annihilation... But are the active Cipher powers any use for a melee fighter? I had a bad time trying to make a melee Cipher work in PoE1. And Soul Annhilation is a primary attack, which seems best suited to 2-handers, apparently the weakest weapon type.

 

The monk might be able to round out either of those classes for a frontliner combination, and I enjoy their flavor more than the other martial classes. Good passive boosts, Swift Strikes... Their strong spammable active melee abilities seem like they'd work well to utilize the power of a buffed wizard with a summoned weapon, or they could be interweaved with Soul Annihilations. But one of their key features - the powerful fists - are wasted on a wizard using summoned weapons, and AFAIK they're not especially effective with the primary attack of the Soul Annhilation.

 

Feel free to tell me if I'm missing some other, obviously superior class combination for this kind of character archetype. I gather that fighters are strong, but I find them kind of bland (though the cleave sounds cool/overpowered). The paladin orders feel a bit limiting in terms of RP... I'm probably running Pallegina anyway and it feels "wasteful" to double up on a class with only 5 party members (though I actually think that's a good move from OBS as a whole).

 

 

Using companions is ultimate hard mode, forget POTD

 

Like driving the short bus

I kind of feel like the companion stories and personalities are a huge part of the game. Can't really imagine going with a mercenary party unless I felt like I'd exhausted all the companion content in previous playthroughs already. I did end modifying companion attributes a little for my PoE1 playthrough (using the Unity Assets Extractor). I didn't actually minmax, just shuffled the attributes around slightly - I think that was a nice compromise between RP and gameplay. Plus I actually globally raised the XP requirements by 25% in that playthrough, so I didn't feel like I was cheating to make it easy on myself. But that's a whole tangent on difficulty that doesn't really belong in this thread...

Two handed weapons do less than dual wielding but are still plenty viable for use on PotD, so don't discount Wizards and their summoned weapons for that reason.

 

The Wizard has lots of instant cast buffs that can be set up in the AI to automatically cast at the start of combat or when they run out. Makes buffing really easy.

 

A Wizard (generalist)/Soul Blade will get decent deflection and protection from the illusion buffs like mirror image and will end up more tanky than many fighters and paladins. Fire off a Swift Feet, a Vitality of mortal essence and a mirror image and you'll spend like 1.2 seconds and get +5 dex, +5 con, and +30 (I think) deflection. I think summoned weapons take 3 seconds so if you start from stealth with a spell like fireball, combat starts and activates your buffs, summon your staff while your other party members move to engage and then you can attack from the second row with the two handed reach and add in soul annihilation as desired to splat enemies. It should be a pretty cool and viable character on any difficulty.

 

A Monk (I prefer Shattered Pillar)/Soul Blade will do an outstanding job. If you will use fists go with Nature Godlike for the power level buff.

 

A Shattered Pillar/Wizard using summoned weapons is also viable. I'd go with the summoned weapons so that'd be two handed style instead of dual wielding but either or both could work as well. Using the reach of two handed you could stay behind the line and get good use of dance of death for a +12 accuracy buff while generating wounds by causing damage.

Instead of doing all this.. have you considered a Fighter?

 

They get Constant Recovery!

[Winterheart]

The Troubadour/Kind Wayfarer looks like it could make a very strong frontline supporter/healer/secondary tank.

For the melee striker and main character I am thinking about a Shattered Pillars/Bleak Walker or Soul Blade. A Shattered Pillars/Mage-Slayer looks like someone that could also really wreck havoc in the enemy lines.

[Aravane]

Two handed weapons do less than dual wielding but are still plenty viable for use on PotD, so don't discount Wizards and their summoned weapons for that reason.

 

I wasn't really. It's just not exactly a point in their favor... except for the Soul Annihilation (Primary Attack) synergy. I suppose it most depends on how strong the actual summoned weapons are, and how well they scale. With no access to the beta I can't really see for myself exactly what they do, and nobody knows what the higher-level stuff does.

 

The Wizard has lots of instant cast buffs that can be set up in the AI to automatically cast at the start of combat or when they run out. Makes buffing really easy.

 

A Wizard (generalist)/Soul Blade will get decent deflection and protection from the illusion buffs like mirror image and will end up more tanky than many fighters and paladins. Fire off a Swift Feet, a Vitality of mortal essence and a mirror image and you'll spend like 1.2 seconds and get +5 dex, +5 con, and +30 (I think) deflection. I think summoned weapons take 3 seconds so if you start from stealth with a spell like fireball, combat starts and activates your buffs, summon your staff while your other party members move to engage and then you can attack from the second row with the two handed reach and add in soul annihilation as desired to splat enemies. It should be a pretty cool and viable character on any difficulty.

 

I didn't realize all the buffs (well, except the weapon) were that fast. And I was worried that you'd have to cast a lot of them to get your money's worth out of the melee wizard. How does the overlap look, are the low-level buffs eventually obsoleted by high-level stuff?

 

How's the uptime on them, when compared to the length of a usual encounter? Would you frequently need to recast them in melee, and would that be a problem?

 

I'm not really looking to create a character that splats enemies from the second line with their reach weapon (though that does look like the obvious paradigm given the reach summoned weapons), I wanted an actual frontliner. A wizard/cipher combo also gets the least health per level, and that seems like a disadvantage that will keep adding up (well, if the fextralife wiki isn't lying to me).

 

A Monk (I prefer Shattered Pillar)/Soul Blade will do an outstanding job. If you will use fists go with Nature Godlike for the power level buff.

 

Yeah, Shattered Pillar appeals to me the most. Getting wounds on my PoE1 Monk felt... inconsistent and spiky. I'd get a ton, I'd spend everything, and then I'd have nothing for an extended period. I probably won't go with a godlike for RP reasons.

 

I thought using fists was kind of a no-brainer? Or is that not the case?

 

A Shattered Pillar/Wizard using summoned weapons is also viable. I'd go with the summoned weapons so that'd be two handed style instead of dual wielding but either or both could work as well. Using the reach of two handed you could stay behind the line and get good use of dance of death for a +12 accuracy buff while generating wounds by causing damage.

 

Second-liner strategy again. Seems like that's the obvious choice with the summoned weapons.

 

Instead of doing all this.. have you considered a Fighter?

 

They get Constant Recovery!

 

Funny... but true. I get that a fighter would be strong (Devoted seems to feature in all the "top multiclass combos" lists), but they just seem kind of boring to me. Some of that is flavor, some of that is that I had way more fun controlling my Monk PC in PoE1 than I did controlling Eder.

 

Though I still might take a Fighter if they're just a lot better for what I'm trying to build.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Aravane

[baldurs_gate_2]

In fact, it's not multi-classing, it's dual-classing. Multi would be 3 classes like Fighter / Mage / Thief (Rogue) like in Baldur's Gate.

[AndreaColombo]

Dual-classing in AD&D is when you give up a profession to take up another. This is definitely multiclassing (which was possible with two classes as well in AD&D.)

[SaruNi]

In fact, it's not multi-classing, it's dual-classing. Multi would be 3 classes like Fighter / Mage / Thief (Rogue) like in Baldur's Gate.

 

In AD&D (and Baldurs Gate etc.) "multi-class" and "dual-class" have different mechanisms, but in that system a Fighter/Mage can be multi-class or dual-class. Only nonhumans can multi-class, and they gain exp in all classes simultaneously. Humans can only dual-class, and they have to stop gaining exp in one class before starting to gain exp in another class.

 

Logically, outside of that particular system, dual-class should be a form of multi-class. 

[LampStaple]

Going by memory from the latest stream, Xoti's got decent DEX and INT and meh everything else.

 

Just what I wanted to hear! She's gonna be a perfect buff priest :D

 

I can make my watcher a magran wizard-wannabe blaster priest.

[EbonKnight]

Hey guys,

 

So this multiclass system seems pretty darned cool so far. I'm looking for some advice on a bleakwalker build. Off the top of my head, it would seem that a fanatic would be insanely strong, especially if we could somehow mitigate the confusion (is there a perk for the paladin or an ability or something to that extent?). Next up, I'm thinking a rogue/assassin type, or even a priest of skaen combo for mad sneak attacks. Then there's the Soulblade. But perhaps the most powerful combo in my mind, and one that also seems to gel well RP-wise would be Shattered Pillar/Bleak Walker? Can anyone elaborate on how these work in practice and what would (with the current balance in mind) be some of the most fun/powerful of these combos? Cheers :D