Please Help Me Like This Game

[cycl0ps]

I gave up playing this game on normal due to boredom at autoattacking and winning.

 

I am trying hard, but my god, stun, stun, plague of insects, dominate, repeat.  I don't even fear the bruisers, the drakes, or swarms of enemies unless they are some sort of caster, then I pretty much know I am going to have to reload over and over until the gods of RNG see fit to allow me to win.

 

How is save scumming fun?

 

What am I missing?

 

I know I can counter these spells, but this is still a RNG issue.  Lemme give you an example.  I have a level 6 party at the Pearlwood Cliffs, and I can clear the cave with ZERO problems.  I can even clear the fire drake cave at the area before with zero problems (once again, bruisers are stupid easy).  But at Pearlwood, there is the group of drakes and manwgpyza (or whatever dumb name they are), and 2 seconds in it is insect plague time, which kills my casters in about 3 seconds with A BILLION RAW DAMAGE!  How is this a balanced lvl three spell?  To compare, Aloth's fireball hits for ****ing nothing.

 

Okay, so I try again.  This time I am ready.  I cast suppress affliction, which people seem to say helps.  It doesn't.  Unless I group my casters right next to my tanks.  So, my casters are fine, but my tanks eat it.  Furthermore, this time, two drakes decide to break aggro and attack my healer.  He dies.  Then Aloth dies.  Better luck with the ****ty engagement system next time.

 

Reload!  Is this fun yet?

 

What am I missing?

 

Seriously, I fireball dudes, and BAM!, barely ****ing injured.  LIGHTNING BOLT...  barely injured.  ****ing bug swarm, that **** kills in seconds.  BALANCE!  Aloth does as much damage as my ****ing paladin tank.  BALANCE!  A level three, AOE, RAW DAMAGE spell that renders half a team useless in one cast, this seems like game design done right.  What were they thinking by making Wizard spells so underwhelming in comparison?

 

Is this fun yet?

 

What am I missing?

 

I have started this game over about a dozen times.  I WANT to like it, but all spells (every goddamned one) doing jack **** unless it stuns or is plague of goddamn insects, makes for a save-scummy, boring experience.

 

This is not to mention, in addition to stuns and the most balanced spell ever made in any game ever, plague of insects, the other broken spells: paralyze, petrify, a billion forms of domination.

 

I just quickload the moment one of my guys gets petrified.  Gameplay by RNG.  Fun!

 

Yeah, they are grouped tightly.  Time for a strategic FIREBALL!  ...barely injured.  fun...

 

What am I missing?

 

How to like this game?

[Blades of Vanatar]

Do you have Aloth's Might boosted with items, spells or resting bonus? Do you have Scion of Flame chosen for Aloth?

 

Wizards don't automatically become mega spell blasters in POE. You need to build them as Nukers...

[dgray62]

It's true that in this game casters are rather OP. One strategy is to bring your own casters, preferably ones with high MIG and INT. It also would be easier if you level up a bit, and come to Pearlwood bluffs around level seven. A wizard can open up with either confuse or shadowflame; fireball is overrated IMO, and is really only useful against foes with low fire resistance, such as most vessels. A druid alone can handle these foes with a well placed driving overwhelming wave followed by returning storm. A cipher could throw in a few whispers of treason or a silent scream. Also, some tough front-liners with good endurance and health can handle an insect storm. Paladins are great for alpha strikes to take out those pesky spell casters, and are also great for their high saves and hence resistance to enemy CC effects. Monks can be built as great mage killers as well.

 

DOT effects are amongst the most deadly in this game, as DOT bypasses damage resistance. The easiest way to deal with foes that inflict DOT effects is to disable them ASAP, and then kill them quickly. Opening combat with disabling spells such as driving overwhelming wave or Shadowflame is a good way to handle these tough encounters. [edited for accuracy]

Edited October 17, 2017 by dgray62

[MaxQuest]

I gave up playing this game on normal due to boredom at autoattacking and winning. 

I am trying hard, but my god, stun, stun, plague of insects, dominate, repeat.[...]

The difference between Normal and Hard is quite small.

It's hard to believe that you did not have to deal with stun, stun, plague of insects and dominate on Normal.

 

How is save scumming fun?

Even on PotD, save scumming is not necessary so long as you have a general idea what to expect and have built your party accordingly.

 

To compare, Aloth's fireball hits for ****ing nothing.

Yes, Fireballs are pretty bad from totalDamageDealt perspective.

Unless you solo, do not look at your wizard as at a source of damage. Focus on his crowd-control potential.

Slicken, Shadowflame, Mass Confusion, Call to Slumber, Gaze of Adragan are awesome. Don't forget to master the first two.

 

Okay, so I try again.  This time I am ready.  I cast suppress affliction, which people seem to say helps.  It doesn't.  Unless I group my casters right next to my tanks.  So, my casters are fine, but my tanks eat it.  Furthermore, this time, two drakes decide to break aggro and attack my healer.  He dies.  Then Aloth dies.  Better luck with the ****ty engagement system next time.

It actually does. Suppress Affliction temporary stops the ticking of the current DoTs that are affecting your characters. It doesn't help against further applications. Also it's obviously poor choice if your party lacks damage, and fails to kill the enemy, while SA is in effect.

Also you know that you can disable those Mepwgra right? Or for example charm them, so they will cast their AoEs on your enemies instead.

 

As for engagement, there are rules as well. Along other stuff, enemies are checking DR, Defences and distance to all of your characters; calculating a specific proportion and depending on result deciding whom is best for them to attack.

 

How to like this game?

By embracing Zen and learning mechanics.

 

 

P.S. With that attitude towards enemy DoTs and Domination, good luck at Clîaban Rilag.

[Archaven]

I kinda agree on some spells like Fireball and Crackling bolt. It just deals pure damage and it's low (at least Crackling bolt has higher damage). I rather in Deadfire that Fire damage are Fire Damage and Burn/Freeze are DoTs.

 

Spells like Fireball should have DoT like burning and afflictions?

 

Burn - Flee/Frigthened

Freeze - Slow movement/action but higher Defense

Shock - Stunned

Corrode - Weakened

[Moneo]

Well, if you dont' like PoE, just don't play PoE, what's the problem? It's a matter of your own joy and your own tastes and preferences. If the game doesn't amuse you, try something else for amusement, after all, it's just a game.

 

PoE isn't an easy game on higher difficulties. So, I'm not surprised you have problems with your lvl 6 party on Pearlwood Bluffs. On PotD, I usually come there at lvl 8-9. The game is pretty straightforward and quite hard in the beginning, until Defiance Bay. You have no choice there. After you enter Defiance Bay, you can choose what to do. There are a lot of XP-heavy quests in Defiance Bay and Dyrford, so try to complete them first, level up your party and only then return to Pearlwood Bluffs or other tough places. And spank the bottoms of those bad guys.

 

On RNG. Let's compare PoE mechanics to DnD. Of course, PoE's d100 is much more RNG than DnD's d20. But in PoE, you can miss, graze, hit and crit with every attack, with all weapon hits, spells, debuffs, effects. That's opposite to DnD mechanics, where you can either hit or miss (or crit on rare occasions), and there are no spell crits. In DnD, your crit chance with weapons depends only on dice rolls (unless you abuse Luck or some high-level spells like Executioner's Eyes), whereas in PoE, your hit and crit chance depends on differense between your accuracy and foe's targeted defense. Thus, assuming all this, the conclusion is: in PoE, when you land plenty of hits, you are less dependant on RNG on average.

 

So, the strategy is quite simple. Buff your party's defenses and accuracy, debuff enemy's defenses and voila. Of course, PoE mechanics is very complicated and sophisticated, there are a lot of spells, afflictions, buffs, debuffs etc., but the principles of this mechanics are quite straightforward. Even devastating raw damage attacks can be mitigated via boosting your Fortitude, so these attacks would miss and graze. Even underwhelming Fireball can be deadly if you debuff your foe's Reflexes first (via Hobble/Paralyzation/Petrification e.g.). Don't overlook Priest's Painful Interdiction, it lowers foe's Accuracy, Will and Fortitude. Many Priest's offensive spells target Will, and the nastiest disables like Paralyze and Petrification usually target Fortitude (moreover, you don't have many ways to lower Fort. in PoE).

 

The wizard is the most complicated class in PoE IMO. That's because of sophisticated spell system. My advise: study PoE Wiki's "Afflictions" page and learn which afflictions lower which defenses, and which classes can inflict which afflictions. And use the appropriate debuffs before attacking your foes. Don't forget that afflictions which lower enemy's accuracy are very powerful, too, 'cause lowering foe's accuracy is just equal to boosting all defenses to all your allies.

 

Of course, there are some nice spell/skill combos. For example, I think that wizard's Slicken is somewhat overestimated, that's rather situational debuff, whereas the most OP wizard's 1st level spell is Chill Fog. It damages foes and moreover it blinds them, which lowers their move speed and causes even more damage while they are trying to exit the dangerous area. So, throw Chill Fog upon approaching enemies, land Combusting Wounds on the top of that and watch your enemies melting down while trying to reach you. By lvl 6 my wizard has the highest "dealt damage" rate in my party, even more than a barb (of course, the barb with right weapon in mid/late game outdamages everyone, so that's temporary). You can invent and use your own combos basing on making your foes vulnerable to some attacks before attacking.

 

But don't rely heavily on spell damage. After you wizard spend all spells, he becomes just an undefwhelming melee/ranged warrior, not more than that. So, the most reliable damage is the damage made with melee/ranged weapons. Use your spellcasters to debuff/cc your enemies and then wreck them into pieces with your swords and axes.

 

Then, what to do when you are facing some nasty debuffs like domination/petrificaton etc. First, buff your defenses, that's simple. With scrolls, too. Second, use Priest's "Prayer against XX" spells and according scrolls, they grant mass immunity to disables. Priest's "Lithany against XX afflictions" spells grant one-target immunity to afflictions. Last but not least, debuff nasty spellcasters. Try to use paralyze/prone/stun or something alike. Cipher's paralyzation power costs only 20 focus. Cipher's blind power costs only 10 focus. Wizard's 2nd level spell can cause mass blind, it's very powerful. Blind = +25 defenses against all enemy's attacks, that means plain -25% chance to get graze/hit/crit from enemy. That's the way you can deal with PoE's RNG.

 

So, playing PoE is not just tossing Fireballs here and there for instant win.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Moneo

[Boeroer]

Fireball has a rel. big base AoE and even more important: it's a fast cast. You can spam it in very quick succession and that's what can make the use of Fireballs powerful - not one single Fireball.

 

Besides that it's obvious that OP has no clue about the mechanics of PoE. I mean who has when he plays the game as a beginner?

 

But at that time I simply enjoyed the story. It's good enough that you can like the game despite not knowing what's going on "under the hood". Can - not must.

 

No idea why one has to force himself to like a game. That seems to be a waste of precious free time. Just play something else that's more fun to you.

 

Also, the opening post sounds a little bit trollish (no offense, just my impression - maybe it's just the frustration that shows through), so I'm not sure if it's worth the time to answer in length and detail. If I'm wrong, please correct me...

Edited October 17, 2017 by Boeroer

[Archaven]

Fireball has a rel. big base AoE and even more important: it's a fast cast. You can spam it in very quick succession and that's what can make the use of Fireballs powerful - not one single Fireball.

 

Besides that it's obvious that OP has no clue about the mechanics of PoE. I mean who has when he plays the game as a beginner?

 

But at that time I simply enjoyed the story. It's good enough that you can like the game despite not knowing what's going on "under the hood". Can - not must.

 

No idea why one has to force himself to like a game. That seems to be a waste of precious free time. Just play something else that's more fun to you.

 

Also, the opening post sounds a little bit trollish (no offense, just my impression - maybe it's just the frustration that shows through), so I'm not sure if it's worth the time to answer in length and detail. If I'm wrong, please correct me...

 

I'm in exact opposite as the poster though. I'm loving this game so much that when i go to sleep i still think about the fights :D. I think i love the gameplay more (especially combat) more than the stories though. I did notice about Fireball fast casting though. For 3 PTs i have yet to use it once if not mistaken. The damage is low and yes it has huge AOE. But i don't use it an opening to combat (is that allowed by the way)? Because enemies move too fast and i noticed most of the fights are about buffing, debuffing, protection spells, carefully placed AOE, nuke and single target DPS. In other words, i dont have a single chance to use fireball though. Else i'll be nuking my whole team. Every opening i start with Interdiction. I think i have it wrong. Because of the 9.8secs duration i should only cast it when my characters already engaged in a fights.

 

There are far more prioirity spells i love for 3rd level like Kalakoth's Minor Blights, Llengrath's Displaced Image and DAoM. I like the flavor of Arcane Dampener though but its situational and you really have to know the area well to have it scribed to the spellbook. Now that i think of it Kalakoth and Parasitic Concelhaut are really cheese of PoE :D

 

In other words, i like to see Fireball and Crackling bolt and similar spells to be improved in Deadfire like the afflictions i mentioned and not just bland damage. Fireball  has been one of my favorite spells in many fantasy RPGs.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Archaven

[Braven]

You can always simply avoid areas with tough enemies until later in the game. In the late game you will have many more spells, scrolls, high defenses, immunity items, etc. that part of the game (cliff zone) is not really designed for low levels to clear the enemies... and there is no reason to.

 

It is like going to the castle at level 2. Sure, you can, but why not just wait until level 7 to make it a cake walk? Or someplace in between for a decent challenge that is not fustrating. Just because the game allows you to venture all the way down the endless paths after acquiring the stronghold does not make it a good idea. Go after easy quests instead to level up and gain better equipment first. A lot of quests require no fighting at all.

 

This game is a lot like baldurs gate where you can just randomly walk into a zone of instant-death petrifying enemies at the start of the game if you are not careful. The idea is to careful scout and avoid those enemies.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Braven

[mosspit]

Fireball has a rel. big base AoE and even more important: it's a fast cast. You can spam it in very quick succession and that's what can make the use of Fireballs powerful - not one single Fireball.

 

Besides that it's obvious that OP has no clue about the mechanics of PoE. I mean who has when he plays the game as a beginner?

 

But at that time I simply enjoyed the story. It's good enough that you can like the game despite not knowing what's going on "under the hood". Can - not must.

 

No idea why one has to force himself to like a game. That seems to be a waste of precious free time. Just play something else that's more fun to you.

 

Also, the opening post sounds a little bit trollish (no offense, just my impression - maybe it's just the frustration that shows through), so I'm not sure if it's worth the time to answer in length and detail. If I'm wrong, please correct me...

 

Indeed. I remembered my very first playthrough trying to complete the Clyde bounty in Magran's Fork. I kinda discovered for myself FIreball is fastcast, and promptly chained cast and unloaded 4 into the enemy's ranks in the first seconds of combat and subsequently winning the encounter. Even now, my tactic hasn't changed much.... only i do so with shadowflame :D

 

From the first post, it seems like OP is playing with CON 3 casters at an area where he/she is underleveled to be affected by Plague of Insects that much. However, apparently OP is using Aloth, and I don't remember that Plague of Insects being able to incapacitate him in a single casting. So I supposed hyperbole is involved.

 

I mean this whole game is, at its core, a numbers game. Which is pretty much very similar to other games of this genre. The old IE games too. I have not idea what to say when OP tries to paint PoE in a bad light by dumbing it down to a game of coin tosses, while ignoring or not noticing the fact one can actually manipulate the odds. This game isn't for everyone and perhaps not for OP too.

Edited October 17, 2017 by mosspit

[Blades of Vanatar]

He's a trolling....

[Lampros]

You can always simply avoid areas with tough enemies until later in the game. In the late game you will have many more spells, scrolls, high defenses, immunity items, etc. that part of the game (cliff zone) is not really designed for low levels to clear the enemies... and there is no reason to.

 

 

This is the key. Once you get to Caed Nua/Defiance Bay, then you can pick and choose where you go and make sure only go to locations that you've out-leveled. I didn't need to save scum even on my 1st PotD run this way.

[Lampros]

 

Fireball has a rel. big base AoE and even more important: it's a fast cast. You can spam it in very quick succession and that's what can make the use of Fireballs powerful - not one single Fireball.

 

Besides that it's obvious that OP has no clue about the mechanics of PoE. I mean who has when he plays the game as a beginner?

 

But at that time I simply enjoyed the story. It's good enough that you can like the game despite not knowing what's going on "under the hood". Can - not must.

 

No idea why one has to force himself to like a game. That seems to be a waste of precious free time. Just play something else that's more fun to you.

 

Also, the opening post sounds a little bit trollish (no offense, just my impression - maybe it's just the frustration that shows through), so I'm not sure if it's worth the time to answer in length and detail. If I'm wrong, please correct me...

 

Indeed. I remembered my very first playthrough trying to complete the Clyde bounty in Magran's Fork. I kinda discovered for myself FIreball is fastcast, and promptly chained cast and unloaded 4 into the enemy's ranks in the first seconds of combat and subsequently winning the encounter. Even now, my tactic hasn't changed much.... only i do so with shadowflame :D

 

From the first post, it seems like OP is playing with CON 3 casters at an area where he/she is underleveled to be affected by Plague of Insects that much. However, apparently OP is using Aloth, and I don't remember that Plague of Insects being able to incapacitate him in a single casting. So I supposed hyperbole is involved.

 

I mean this whole game is, at its core, a numbers game. Which is pretty much very similar to other games of this genre. The old IE games too. I have not idea what to say when OP tries to paint PoE in a bad light by dumbing it down to a game of coin tosses, while ignoring or not noticing the fact one can actually manipulate the odds. This game isn't for everyone and perhaps not for OP too.

 

 

How and where do you get this Shadow Flame? I have yet to find it in 1 Normal and 1 PotD playthrough.

[Boeroer]

From Ninagauth's Black Pages. It's a grimoire you can find:

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Ninagauth%27s_Shadowflame

[Moneo]

 

 

How and where do you get this Shadow Flame? I have yet to find it in 1 Normal and 1 PotD playthrough.

 

 

Yeah, it's in the Ninagauth's Black Pages. Finding it may be a bit tricky. You must travel to Russetwood and in South-West corner you'll watch a hallucination cutscene, where a wizard deals with his traitor apprentice. After that travel to Durgan's Battery and somewhere in the center you'll discover a hidden stash, where the grimoire is stored. You can't discover this stash without watching the cutscene in Russetwood.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Moneo

[Lampros]

From Ninagauth's Black Pages. It's a grimoire you can find:

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Ninagauth%27s_Shadowflame

 

 

 

 

How and where do you get this Shadow Flame? I have yet to find it in 1 Normal and 1 PotD playthrough.

 

 

Yeah, it's in the Ninagauth's Black Pages. Finding it may be a bit tricky. You must travel to Russetwood and in South-West corner you'll watch a hallucination cutscene, where a wizard deals with his traitor apprentice. After that travel to Durgan's Battery and somewhere in the center you'll discover a hidden stash, where the grimoire is stored. You can't discover this stash without watching the cutscene in Russetwood.

 

 

Hmm, ok; I will try again next time. I was looking all over Durgan's Battery the last game, so it must be because I didn't watch the cutscene. Or I may have accidentally vendored it...

[Ymiraku]

From the first post, it seems like OP is playing with CON 3 casters at an area where he/she is underleveled to be affected by Plague of Insects that much. However, apparently OP is using Aloth, and I don't remember that Plague of Insects being able to incapacitate him in a single casting. So I supposed hyperbole is involved.

 

 

I mean this whole game is, at its core, a numbers game. Which is pretty much very similar to other games of this genre. The old IE games too. I have not idea what to say when OP tries to paint PoE in a bad light by dumbing it down to a game of coin tosses, while ignoring or not noticing the fact one can actually manipulate the odds. This game isn't for everyone and perhaps not for OP too.

 

OP is probably referring to infestation of maggots, which can easily drop a low fort low hp wizard in a single casting if you don't heal or suppress it. This is also where spells like infuse with vital essence come in handy.

[mosspit]

 

From the first post, it seems like OP is playing with CON 3 casters at an area where he/she is underleveled to be affected by Plague of Insects that much. However, apparently OP is using Aloth, and I don't remember that Plague of Insects being able to incapacitate him in a single casting. So I supposed hyperbole is involved.

 

 

I mean this whole game is, at its core, a numbers game. Which is pretty much very similar to other games of this genre. The old IE games too. I have not idea what to say when OP tries to paint PoE in a bad light by dumbing it down to a game of coin tosses, while ignoring or not noticing the fact one can actually manipulate the odds. This game isn't for everyone and perhaps not for OP too.

 

OP is probably referring to infestation of maggots, which can easily drop a low fort low hp wizard in a single casting if you don't heal or suppress it. This is also where spells like infuse with vital essence come in handy.

 

Not necessarily. Besides the obvious discrepancy in spell name, Infestation of Maggots has a different mechanics of doing more dmg the lower the HP a character has. I don't see any indication of that situation in OP's reply.