Guard Dog Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 @Malc: I just enjoy pointing out absurdity and that particular instance pegs the absurd-o-meter. Shakespere (or someone) wrote Titus Andonicus around 1600. So people have been warching or reading it over four hundred years. Now a Cambrige professor needs to warn the poor little dears and edit parts out so they won't feel bad? Absurd city. I don't really care one way or another to tell the truth other than conversational value. And since we got five forum pages out of it I'd say it had some. It wasn't even Shakespere's best play. King Lear & Henry V have that distinction. My copy of the Complete Works of William Shakespeare is safe from being edited so I'm good. But when it comes to mocking people who can't even read a four hundred year old work of fiction without needing therapy, guilty as charged. @Pidesco: How is that illusory? Sure you can't (and shouldn't try) to control everything around you but you DO have full control over how you deal with it. No you don't. That's the point. There are plenty of situations where a person's body, brain included, can and will be uncontrollable. It can be anxiety attacks, a chemical imbalance in the brain, arousal due to sexual stimulus, the fight or flight response, Tourette's or a bunch of other things I can't recall right now. Trigger warnings help towards managing some of these. For instance, if someone is a Vietnam vet who suffers from severe PTSD, that person should be aware of anything that might unexpectedly trigger the disorder, like descriptions of the war in a book. OK, back to the Shakespeare example. I'm assuming an English Lit student at Cambridge University know about William Shakespeare and his work long before reading Titus Andronicus. Nothing contained in that play is far beyond any other work of his. They really should not need to be warned. A Vietnam vet reading Fields of Fire knows what kind of book he's reading. It should not come as a surprise to find depictions of war in a novel about war. If you order a cup of coffee you don't get to be mad it wasn't tea. Does the cup really need a trigger warning "This is coffee not tea" ? "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 @Malc: I just enjoy pointing out absurdity and that particular instance pegs the absurd-o-meter. Shakespere (or someone) wrote Titus Andonicus around 1600. So people have been warching or reading it over four hundred years. Now a Cambrige professor needs to warn the poor little dears and edit parts out so they won't feel bad? Absurd city. I don't really care one way or another to tell the truth other than conversational value. And since we got five forum pages out of it I'd say it had some. It wasn't even Shakespere's best play. King Lear & Henry V have that distinction. My copy of the Complete Works of William Shakespeare is safe from being edited so I'm good. But when it comes to mocking people who can't even read a four hundred year old work of fiction without needing therapy, guilty as charged. @Pidesco: How is that illusory? Sure you can't (and shouldn't try) to control everything around you but you DO have full control over how you deal with it. So you're bothered by people doing absurd stuff that doesn't affect you enough to mock them, for some reason. But yeah you're totally indifferent. Didn't think they were editing the play and it was just the warning for three lectures. Never did look up to see how the course works to see what that matters. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 A part of the modern moral standard is a lot about pulling yourself by your bootstraps, being your own person, in control of yourself, and having the power to control your body and everything around it. It's an illusion that is very nice and romantic, partly stepped in the good ol' protestant/puritan work ethic and sexist notions of manhood but it has not a lot of basis in reality. For many people this belief is essential not only to their worldview but also to their sense of personal worth. Trigger warnings challenge that mindset and so are seen by many as a personal and societal attack. I feel like this could be referring to either conservatives or the a certain type of exposed nerve liberal as well... but which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 @Malc: I just enjoy pointing out absurdity and that particular instance pegs the absurd-o-meter. Shakespere (or someone) wrote Titus Andonicus around 1600. So people have been warching or reading it over four hundred years. Now a Cambrige professor needs to warn the poor little dears and edit parts out so they won't feel bad? Absurd city. I don't really care one way or another to tell the truth other than conversational value. And since we got five forum pages out of it I'd say it had some. It wasn't even Shakespere's best play. King Lear & Henry V have that distinction. My copy of the Complete Works of William Shakespeare is safe from being edited so I'm good. But when it comes to mocking people who can't even read a four hundred year old work of fiction without needing therapy, guilty as charged. @Pidesco: How is that illusory? Sure you can't (and shouldn't try) to control everything around you but you DO have full control over how you deal with it. So you're bothered by people doing absurd stuff that doesn't affect you enough to mock them, for some reason. But yeah you're totally indifferent. Didn't think they were editing the play and it was just the warning for three lectures. Never did look up to see how the course works to see what that matters. I'm interested in it for conversational value. Like I said, we got five pages (and still counting) on entertaining discussion out of that post. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Entertaining discussion? Heh, ok. 2 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 It has been keeping YOU coming back! 2 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 A Vietnam vet reading Fields of Fire knows what kind of book he's reading. How? Popular as Fields of Fire and Shakespeare may be, people aren't born with a knowledge of the works before reaing them or getting spoiled. Assuming someone didn't spoil them on the plot, they would still be going in relatively blind reading it for the first time and could very well get their PTSD TRIGGERED by something they weren't expecting. I think the SJWs are stupid and there is a limit to warnings that can be communicated, but we shouldn't let a fringe group of tumblrites determine policy towards mental illness because being contrarian will TRIGGER liberal sjw betacucks. 2 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) It has been keeping YOU coming back! Doesn't mean it is entertaining, it passes the time but not quite warranting that term. Edited October 24, 2017 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 A Vietnam vet reading Fields of Fire knows what kind of book he's reading. How? Popular as Fields of Fire and Shakespeare may be, people aren't born with a knowledge of the works before reaing them or getting spoiled. Assuming someone didn't spoil them on the plot, they would still be going in relatively blind reading it for the first time and could very well get their PTSD TRIGGERED by something they weren't expecting. I think the SJWs are stupid and there is a limit to warnings that can be communicated, but we shouldn't let a fringe group of tumblrites determine policy towards mental illness because being contrarian will TRIGGER liberal sjw betacucks. Psst, its called a prologue. Assuming they don't need help for that part too. I also just felt like typing "betacucks" because it gives me the lol's. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 A Vietnam vet reading Fields of Fire knows what kind of book he's reading. How? Popular as Fields of Fire and Shakespeare may be, people aren't born with a knowledge of the works before reaing them or getting spoiled. Assuming someone didn't spoil them on the plot, they would still be going in relatively blind reading it for the first time and could very well get their PTSD TRIGGERED by something they weren't expecting. I think the SJWs are stupid and there is a limit to warnings that can be communicated, but we shouldn't let a fringe group of tumblrites determine policy towards mental illness because being contrarian will TRIGGER liberal sjw betacucks. Psst, its called a prologue. Assuming they don't need help for that part too. I also just felt like typing "betacucks" because it gives me the lol's. Do they have prologues now ? I don't recall my Shakespeare plays having one that covered what material would be shown in the play. In any event you're advocating something that achieves the same as the trigger warning. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Youre going to have to do some problem solving on your own to figure out my post. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Youre going to have to do some problem solving on your own to figure out my post. Well, you're suggesting the prologue as the solution, but seems to be any kind of forewarning is ridiculous to you. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Keep trying....and Ill even give you a hint. GD is talking about books....and what do books have......? Dont click this spoiler until you have it.... A prologue is used to give readers extra information that advances the plot. It is included in the front matter and for a good reason! Authors use them for various purposes, including: Giving background information about the story. And no, I didn't even make that up. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Well thing is, not all books have prologues (some don't even have anything worth an epilogue - look at Stephenson). Don't really recall if all the copies of the plays I read have them, been too long. So the trigger warnings are just a highlight of the prologue's material, I fail to see the issue. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bowe-bergdahl-s-sentencing-delayed-over-trump-s-comments-n813251 Well, I guess a side effect of someone that can't not talk **** all the time is this. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Thats super awesome that you dont have an issue with it. But the point of my post was to explain the KP how a person would know "what kind of book he is reading". "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Thats super awesome that you dont have an issue with it. But the point of my post was to explain the KP how a person would know "what kind of book he is reading". Yes, and not all books have prologues and if they do is it guaranteed that they'd cover enough for one to be warned sufficiently ? Decent enough chance that it's not, so KP's point still works. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 K "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 I sense a certain amount of cross-purpose discussion, so to be clear: foreword - introduction to the story the person is about to read, typically spoiler free prologue - part of the fiction that happens prior to the events of the story but are relevant or set up an aspect of a books story but not part of the story proper epilogue - part of the fiction that happens after the events of the story that may wrap up remaining issues of the story afterword - section that typically discusses the book, and sometimes the creation of the book, and is the section of a book that is most likely to contain spoilers for the book as it is intended to be read after the book. Sometimes written directly by the author to describe their own thoughts or processes on the story. In the case of academic classes, I think it also fair to point out that as the student isn't choosing the book, they may not be inclined to read a blurb or a synopsis or afterword since they're not trying to find a book to read for their own personal interest. YMMV. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 *Yakety Sax plays in background* 1) 100% of books don't have a prologue, ha HA! 2) And even if it does, it may not include 100% of all possible TRIGGER warnings! 3) And even if it does, 100% of people will not use the tools given to them! We have created an impenetrable Kobayashi Maru! 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) I guess this is why exception handling is so poor in my field. It does, however, explain the review processes Edited October 24, 2017 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) Liked for the Trek reference PS Trump's refugee ban ends, new screening rules coming Edited October 24, 2017 by ShadySands Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 *Yakety Sax plays in background* 1) 100% of books don't have a prologue, ha HA! 2) And even if it does, it may not include 100% of all possible TRIGGER warnings! 3) And even if it does, 100% of people will not use the tools given to them! We have created an impenetrable Kobayashi Maru! I'm really not sure what you're on about. 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 *Yakety Sax plays in background* 1) 100% of books don't have a prologue, ha HA! 2) And even if it does, it may not include 100% of all possible TRIGGER warnings! 3) And even if it does, 100% of people will not use the tools given to them! We have created an impenetrable Kobayashi Maru! This is why we need to train 100% accurate trigger aware emotional support dogs, subsidized of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 its like Trump's idea of Presidency/MAGAing is the part in the A-Team when they get to work and build a tank in ten seconds The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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