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My opinion about the new classes


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#1
Madscientist

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OK, I will write down what I think about each class and what I think about multi classing them.

I am not an expert builder like Boeroer, but I have collected tons of RPGs.

 

Barbarian
  • Corpse Eater - Targets unconscious enemies to devour their flesh and gain power.  Powers cost more to use. ( sorry, I do not understand this)
  • Berserker - Has a more powerful Frenzy, but attacks can damage friends as well as foes while Frenzied. (Will be the best chioce if you want to play solo with a barbarien, I would not take it in a party)
  • Mage Slayer - Gains spell resistance and can disrupt enemy spells, but cannot use potions or scrolls and beneficial spells have shorter durations. (Too many downsides. A normal barbarian who is good in interrupting should be enough to annoy casters (and all other enemies). I guess there is no creature that is immun to interrupt)

Regarding multi classing, it depends on what works together with carnage and what not.

 

Chanter
  • Beckoner - Summoning invocations are cheaper and summon more creatures, but the creatures are weaker. (No comment, I have to see how many summons we have and how strong they are.)
  • Skald - Offensive invocations are cheaper and melee crits grant phrases, but all other invocations are more expensive. (Seems great for multi classing with high acc melee chars. Like a chanter/rogue with dragon trashed on who uses those cone attacks to knockdown enemies in front of him for easier death attacks)
  • Troubadour - Phrase linger is 50% longer, Brisk Recitation as a modal that increases the rate of phrase elapses, but shortens linger. All invocations are more expensive. (For players who like a more passive char. Maybe good in combination with a class that uses mostly auto attacks, like a barbarian that does lots of active and passive AoE)

As single class char, I would use a default chanter, I guess.

 

Cipher
 
I used my ciphers mostly as casters and I used weapon attacks (mostly ranged) only to refill focus. I reached max focus almost never.
  • Ascendant - Powers and Soul Whip are more effective when used at Max Focus, but Focus drains quickly if left at Max for long. (Not a good choice for me. You have to attack all the time to reach max focus and you should not cast 2 spells in a row. )
  • Beguiler - Illusion powers are more powerful, but Soul Whip suffers when used against targets that are not vulnerable to Sneak Attack. (This can be good. You want to debuff enemies in any case, so the sneak attack condition will be there most of the time. I think this is the best choice for a single class and it may be good for multi classing too. Might be less good when soloing than with a party because more chars make it easier to produce debuffs.)
  • Soul Blade - Offensive cipher that can dump Focus into a Soul Annihilation melee attack for extra Raw damage.  Shred powers have reduced Focus cost.  Lower Max Focus. (I used ciphers mostly as ranged casters. But this can be good in multi classing with a melee char. It might look good in combination with a rogue. First you debuff them, then you use your remaining focus for the finishing blow.)

 

Druid
  • Fury - Shift into storm blights and gain bonuses with elemental spells.  Cannot cast Restoration spells. (I think this can be good if you want to be a nuker and you also have a healer in your party.)
  • Lifegiver - Rejuvenation spells are cast with increased Power Level but cannot cast Summon spells. (Not my first choice. Summon elemental could be very helpful. If you have a party there are also other chars who can help you healing and solo you definitely want summons.)
  • Shifter - Druid can shift to any animal form, once each, per combat and heals damage each time they shift back.  Cannot cast spells while shifted. (Now this looks good. I mean, you can still cast long lasting spells before shifting. May be good in combination with monk (if mid level claws have higher damage than high level fists) or fighter (weapon specialisation unarmed)

 

Fighter
  • Black Jacket - Bonus weapon proficiency, reduced Recovery when switching weapon, but lacks Constant Recovery. (Not my best choice. Usually you do not use many different weapon types and the amount of weapon profiencies of a normal fighter should be enough.)
  • Devoted - May only be proficient in a single weapon.  Higher Penetration and crit damage with that weapon. Suffers Accuracy penalty when using other weapons. (Initially it may hinder you too much. At the start you have to use whatever weapon you may find. But if you find a very good weapon later this can be very good. Like a ranger/fighter once you find a ranged weapon with 2 damage types.)
  • Unbroken - Bonuses to Engagement and Disengagement Attacks, but lower Stride. (Low movement speed seems to be a huge penalty. In combination with monk (movement abilities) or paladin this may become the ultimate tank.)

 

Monk
 
I liked Zahua in my party a lot and he was very useful. But I dislike that you have to get hit in order to use special attacks. But as somebody said correctly: "If you do not take damage, the battle is so easy that you do not need special attacks.)
  • Helwalker - Begin all combats with Wounds, gain Might for every Wound.  Wounds require more damage to acquire. (I disliked that you have to get hit to use abilities and I hate to get increased damage even more. I do not think I will ever use this.)
  • Nalpazca - Drug effects last longer and Wound cap is increased while under the effects of drugs. Penalties while not under the effect of drugs. (No comment, I did never use drugs.)
  • Shattered Pillar - Gain Wounds by inflicting damage with melee weapons (fists or otherwise).  Lower Max Wound cap, does not gain Wounds from receiving damage. (When using a monk, this might become my first choice. This looks very good if you combine the monksterlasher build with a barbarian. With carnage you create many hits, creating wounds fast. Thanks to the wounds enemies will take lost of additional elemental damage. Thanks to AoE interrupt you will not get hit a lot, so you would not gain many wounds by taking damage anyway. Add barbaric retaliation and heart of fury to the mix.)

 

Paladin
  • Bleak Walkers - Flames of Devotion (Remember Rakhan Field) generates black flames and does Corrode damage.  Healing given and received is reduced. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Eothas, Berath, or Skaen. (Less healing sounds bad. Not the best choice for me.)
  • Darcozzi Paladini - Lay on Hands (Flames of Darcozzi Palace) creates a flame shield around the paladin.  Lower Zeal power. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Berath, Magran, or Skaen. (No comment, never used them in PoE)
  • Goldpact Knights  - Sworn Enemy (Gilded Enmity) creates protective gold armor on the paladin.  Cannot learn Zealous Auras. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Magran or Wael. (Nothing fo me. Passive auras are a fundamental part of paladins, at least for me.)
  • Kind Wayfarers - Flames of Devotion (Sword and the Shepherd) heals nearby allies.  Does less damage against enemies vulnerable to Sneak Attack. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Berath, Magran, Wael, or Skaen. (This is bad. You want to debuff enemies in any case. If this char is weaker against enemies who met the conditions that are required for sneak attacks, he will be weak against most enemies most of the time. This is very sad because I wanted to play a kind wayfarer in PoE1 and continue with him in PoE2. He might change to be a shieldbearer in the second game.)
  • Shieldbearers of St. Elcga - Lay on Hands (St. Elcga's Grace) prevents the target from being knocked out for a short duration.  Cannot use Lay on Hands on self. - Cannot multiclass with priests of Skaen, Magran, or Wael. (Since you cannot have a paladin without order, this seems to be best choice for me. Just to be sure, "knocked out" means zero endurance, not prone.)

 

Priest
 
In PoE priest were very powerful. Now each priest will lose one spell school and unlike a wizard you cannot have a generalist caster. Until I know which priest spell belongs to what category, it is hard to tell which one is best. Priests of wael may be good in combination with physical chars who like to buff themselves, otherwise I would use single class priest.
  • Berath - Can learn Decay spells from the druid list, cannot learn Condemnation spells. - Cannot multiclass with Bleak Walker, Kind Wayfarer, or Darcozzi paladins.
  • Eothas - Can learn Elemental spells from the druid list, cannot learn Protection spells. - Cannot multiclass with Bleak Walker paladins.
  • Magran - Can learn Fire spells from the wizard list, cannot learn Restoration spells. - Cannot multiclass with Shieldbearer, Kind Wayfarer, Goldpact, or Darcozzi paladins.
  • Skaen - Can learn rogue offensive abilities as priest spells, cannot learn Inspiration spells. - Cannot multiclass with Shieldbearer, Bleak Walker, Kind Wayfarer, or Darcozzi paladins.
  • Wael - Can learn Illusion spells from the wizard list, cannot learn Punishment spells. - Cannot multiclass with Shieldbeaer, Kind Wayfarer, or Goldpact paladins.
Ranger
 
I hope that multi classing means that a lv20 char will have a lv20 pet with less abilities/talents than a pure ranger. If he has a lv 15 pet, multi classing will be useless.
  • Ghost Heart - Animal companion must be summoned as a spirit.  They are not affected by Bonded Grief and the companion is more powerful, but the summon is limited duration. (I like this. The usefulnes depends on the lengh of the summoning vs the lengh of the battle.)
  • Sharpshooter - Bonuses to Penetration and Accuracy at range, but slower actions and lower Deflection. (Looks interesting, especially if you combine it with a devoted fighter and a wood elf.)
  • Stalker - Stalker and companion gain bonuses to Deflection and Armor Rating when close to each other, suffer Bonded Grief when too far apart. (May be interesting for some players, but I will not take it.)

I like a combination of ranger and rogue. Pet causes flanked for sneak attack, deep wounds causes dot so the pet does more damage. Even more useful if death attack works together with twinned arrow.

Otherwise I would prefer single class rangers, so you have a very powerful pet that acts as a permanent full party member.

 

 

Rogue
 
The top level abilities of rogues after they get deathblows (shadow step, feign death) were not ultimately impressive, so I guess rogues will be good for multi classing.
  • Assassin - From stealth or invisibility, weapon attacks have bonus damage, Penetration, and Accuracy.  All incoming damage is increased. (On its own it feels a little too fragile. May be very interesting in combination with protection spells like a priest of wael or an illusionist wizard. Especially if death attacks will still work with spells (but I consider this to be a bug)).
  • Streetfighter - Sneak Attack and crit damage increases when Flanked or Bloodied (<50% Health).  Recovery is slower when neither Flanked nor Bloodied. (Sorry, I dislike to be flanked and I also dislike chars whos special things work only if they have und X health. I prefer to be at full health all the time. Some people may like this, but not me.)
  • Trickster - Gains access to Illusion spells from the wizard list.  Sneak Attack deals less damage. (Less sneak attack damage is bad for a rogue. I would prefer a rogue/Illusionist over a rogue with lower damage. I would even prefer a default rogue over this, because you can get most effects via scrolls, potions or another char in your party.

 

Wizard
 
If wizards really lose two spell schools and they get more recovery on spells that are not from their shool, I will definitely use a single class generalist over a single class specialist. Specialist may be usefull in combination with other classes though. It might be interesting to play the game with 5 single class wizards, each of them specialized in a different school.
  • Conjurer - Conjuration spells are more powerful, cannot cast Evocation or Illusion spells. (May be useful in combination with a devoted fighter. Having an empowered citadels lance may be nice.)
  • Enchanter - Enchantment spells are more powerful, cannot cast Illusion or Transmutation spells.
  • Evoker - Evocation spells are more powerful, cannot cast Transmutation or Conjuration spells.
  • Illusionist - Illusion spells are more powerful, cannot cast Conjuration or Enchanting spells. (May be useful in combination with melee chars who want more protection.)
  • Transmuter - Transmutation spells are more powerful, cannot cast Enchantment or Evocation spells.


#2
Gizmo

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  • Mage Slayer - Gains spell resistance and can disrupt enemy spells, but cannot use potions or scrolls and beneficial spells have shorter durations. (Too many downsides. A normal barbarian who is good in interrupting should be enough to annoy casters (and all other enemies). I guess there is no creature that is immune to interrupt)

This one makes no sense, unless it's philosophical; (which is not implausible given the class motivation).  I would hope that the designers do not restrict the mage-slayer from benefiting from administered potions. Remember the A-Team, and that they got 'BA' to fly anyway—despite intense and risky objection on his part.  Upshot being that if potions can be administered to revive injured comrades, it should work on the mage-slayer class. If it's important to concept, then the mage-slayer could be mad as hell about it, and maybe suffer a temporary performance penalty; or perhaps a risk for leaving the party.  

 

Monk

  • Helwalker - Begin all combats with Wounds, gain Might for every Wound.  Wounds require more damage to acquire. (I disliked that you have to get hit to use abilities and I hate to get increased damage even more. I do not think I will ever use this.)

Agreed. I think it's ridiculous. Did no one there ever watch Kung-Fu~the series?  The monks would think anyone an idiot to allow themselves to be injured.

 

 
Fighter
  • Devoted - May only be proficient in a single weapon. 

Equally ridiculous; to the point of absurdity.

 

Ranger

  • Stalker - Stalker and companion gain bonuses to Deflection and Armor Rating when close to each other, suffer Bonded Grief when too far apart. (May be interesting for some players, but I will not take it.)

Silly (egregious reaching)...even if 'too far' means not in line-of-sight; nutty person if it means more than X number of paces apart.

 

Rogue
  • Streetfighter - Sneak Attack and crit damage increases when Flanked or Bloodied (<50% Health).
This is dumb. It's saying that the character performs in a more focused and controlled manner—after serious trauma; (when they'd be wincing and shaking from it).
 
 

Edited by Gizmo, 23 September 2017 - 04:19 PM.


#3
JerekKruger

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Interesting thread, here are some of my thoughts on some of the subclasses as well:

 

Corpse Eater - as you say, the description isn't particularly clear. What is the 'power' that the Corpse Eater gains, and given that Barbarian abilities didn't cost any resource in Pillars, what does it mean by 'powers cost more to use'. In any case I can't see myself using this class as I'm not tempted to play a character who eats his enemies' corpses on the battlefield (or elsewhere), but the idea is interesting at least.

Berserker - I think this is a simple but reasonably interesting subclass concept. It's worth noting that you only do friendly fire whilst Frenzied, so you've got the option of forgoing Frenzy if friendly fire is unavoidable.

 

Ascendent - an interesting idea, but too fiddly for my tastes. This subclass does suggest that, in Deadfire, Soul Whip won't deactivate at max focus (in Pillars it did).

Soul Blade - this will probably be my go to Cipher, as I like melee Ciphers. It's a shame they didn't give them a self targetting Reaping Knives though, that would be cool.

 

Fury - I like the concept and suspect it'll be a good subclass, though I hope they improve the model for Blights.

Lifegiver - I don't think I've ever cast a Druid summon spell in Pillars, so on the face of it this looks to be a pure upgrade for me.

Shifter - I'm disappointed that they didn't go with Spiritshifting being a modal that disabled spell casting for this. I hope they'll distinguish between animal forms more as well since in Pillars there's not all that much between them.

 

Blackjacket - the ability to switch between damage types, or from high damage to high DR bypass, or simply rapidly cycle through a bunch of arquebuses for a huge alpha strike seems pretty good. The loss of constant recovery doesn't seem all that bad to me.

Devoted - I like it and am considering a Monk/Fighter sword master class using it.

Unbroken - not sure what Stride is.

 

Helwalker - I like the idea, but +5% damage per Wound might be a pretty steep price to pay.

Nalpazca - I was not at all tempted by this when it was first announced, but the preview of it in the update video shows that it gains Wounds whilst under the effect of drugs which is potentially pretty powerful (non-damage source of Wounds).

Shattered Pillar - a nice choice for those who don't like taking damage. I am considering a Monk/Rogue using this subclass.

 

Goldpact Knights - depending on how good Gilded Emnity, this might be the go to choice for super tanky Paladins. Losing auras is a huge shame though.

Kind Wayfarers - I hope that the downside is when enemies are being Sneak Attacked (i.e. afflicted and there's a Rogue attacking them), not simply when they are potentially vulnerable to Sneak Attacks. In any case, if you don't plan to be a damage dealer this isn't so bad.

Shield Bearers of St. Elcga - this seems to be the Paladin with the least downside. Just make sure you have potions and/or another healer and it's basically irrelevant.

 

Priest - hard to comment without knowing what spells fall into which categories, though I don't like the loss of spell options.

Eothas - the choice of disallowing Protection spells seems odd to me. Eothas is the god that stands up for the little guy, and his Symbol spell in Pillars was one hell of a Protection spell. Also, if he gets access to all Druid Elemental spells he'll have things like Relentless Storm, which seems odd (things like Burst of Summer Flame fit him better).

 

Streetfighter - could work very well with Monks and Fire Godlikes, who both want to take damage. A Streetfighter/Helwalker might be an interesting multiclass.

Trickster - depending on how this works I could see this being a very fun class.

 

Wizard - the loss of two spell schools seems a steep price to pay, although the fact we'll have more limited spells might make this less important. The other bonuses vary.



#4
Boeroer

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Skald + barb could be a thing. Not only because of RP reasons, but because a barb can cause a lot of crits with one swing (especially if helped by CC guys). This might lead to plenty of phrases and a lot of invocations being cast. Imagine a Berserker standing in the midst of it all, swinging away and then letting out Seven Nights all the time...
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#5
blotter

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Interesting thread, here are some of my thoughts on some of the subclasses as well:

 

Corpse Eater - as you say, the description isn't particularly clear. What is the 'power' that the Corpse Eater gains, and given that Barbarian abilities didn't cost any resource in Pillars, what does it mean by 'powers cost more to use'. In any case I can't see myself using this class as I'm not tempted to play a character who eats his enemies' corpses on the battlefield (or elsewhere), but the idea is interesting at least.

 

I suspect that "power" refers to power level or power source-based resources. See https://jesawyer.tum...l-post-so-these for details.

 

It'd be pretty powerful if it does allow them to refresh per encounter resources, but at the same time, a) you're probably not of much use to anyone while you're munching on corpses (and who knows how long it takes), b) you might be an easy target while you do so, and c) who knows how many enemies leave suitable corpses for you to eat. Spirits, oozes, and blights might more or less disappear when they die, and undead along with animats/other constructs might not be edible.

 

Power level's the other possibility that comes to mind as I mentioned above, and it still has bearing on how potent abilities are despite the move away from 3e-style multiclassing (see https://jesawyer.tum...tly-power-level for details). This may be the more likely explanation as it more closely resembles mechanics that have already been confirmed to exist in the game: power level boosts via empowerment and wizard specialist-type boosts to the power levels of specific sets of spells.

 

If the details on the corpse eater subclass from https://www.bleeding...eternity-ii-e3/ aren't out of date by now, it might also shed light on how the corpse eater operates/lend support to my speculation.

 

And when it comes to Sawyer and Brennecke’s favorite multi-class and sub-class combinations, one of highlights was the corpse-eater barbarian, which is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. As a corpse-eater barbarian, you have less rage to start with, which is one of the key aspects of being a Barbarian, but then “once an enemy is killed, you just sort of get in there and start digging in,” which boosts that rage counter pretty well.

 

Even if this does reinforce the association with power source, I don't think it's all that clear as to whether it'd mean a boost to power level or per encounter uses tied to power source. "Rage counter" sounds more like the latter to me, but who knows.

 

I suppose the Darcozzi paladin order's "lower Zeal power" drawback also raises similar questions: can they use their abilities less frequently and/or is their power level lower?

 

Soul Blade - this will probably be my go to Cipher, as I like melee Ciphers. It's a shame they didn't give them a self targetting Reaping Knives though, that would be cool.

 

Agreed. I think a psychically generated weapon is a huge part of the appeal for a dedicated melee cipher. The lore (http://forums.obsidi...ate-65-ciphers/) establishes that a cipher can't use their powers to target themselves among other things, but the devil's in the details: it could work as a more tangible variation of the soul whip, for example, or in a fashion similar to the more parasitic powers like Psychovampiric Shield which allow ciphers to redirect stolen energy from other creatures toward themselves.

 

The "Soul Annihilation melee attack" mentioned in the update might sort of fit the bill though.

 

For the priests. I agree that access to druid elemental spells seems overly broad for Eothas and the loss of protection magic doesn't seem overly in keeping with what we know about his character or philosophy. Swapping Berath's prohibition of condemnation spells for Eothas' prohibition on protection spells seems like it'd make more sense to me. Berath's not the most passionate or judgmental god by any stretch, but enough of the lore pertaining to him deals with scenarios of misfortune and ruin for those who try to cheat/deny death that condemnation, which presumably covers spells that deal damage or impose afflictions, still seems to fit for him. Plus, certain epilogues in the game show that he's not personally above doling out divine wrath from time to time.

 

Come to think of it, if restoration spells also include things like removing poison or disease, it's a bit strange that Magran's priests wouldn't be able to do that given the fact that they worship the goddess of purification.

 

I'm still concerned with how rogue abilities will match up to spells in terms of power per use for priests of Skaen, considering how balancing may account for the greater frequency with which rogues can use individual abilities in comparison to spells, and the delayed/limited access to normally out of class spells/abilities for these subclasses (https://jesawyer.tum...-like-priest-of) may exacerbate the issue further.

 

I find the barbarian's mage slayer subclass somewhat boring, but I think meshes well conceptually with the soul blade or assassin (though I expect an assassin combo to be worse given the damage vulnerability). It might blend favorably with the nalpazca monk since the latter would allow the character to maximize benefits from drugs, which they might have a lot more use for since they can't use potions and scrolls.

 

As for the assassin subclass, I understand the reasoning behind its strengths and weaknesses but specifically boosting the incoming damage against a character with the subclass may have the effect of making them even squishier than wizards, which seems a little odd to me.

 

I find myself considering some of the subclasses more for companions than for the Watcher, actually. I could see Eder as a streetfighter/stalker, for example, or Serafen as a beguiler/skald (not that I see any particular synergy in those two subclasses, but I get the feeling they'd match his character). I'm also looking forward to more details on companion-specific subclasses, but I wonder how many will have them besides Xoti and Tekehu.



#6
JerekKruger

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For the priests. I agree that access to druid elemental spells seems overly broad for Eothas and the loss of protection magic doesn't seem overly in keeping with what we know about his character or philosophy. Swapping Berath's prohibition of condemnation spells for Eothas' prohibition on protection spells seems like it'd make more sense to me. Berath's not the most passionate or judgmental god by any stretch, but enough of the lore pertaining to him deals with scenarios of misfortune and ruin for those who try to cheat/deny death that condemnation, which presumably covers spells that deal damage or impose afflictions, still seems to fit for him. Plus, certain epilogues in the game show that he's not personally above doling out divine wrath from time to time.

 

Yeah, swapping Eothas and Berath's penalty seems reasonable. Why would Berath protect his followers when that would stop their souls returning to The Wheel.

 

As for the elemental spells, I suspect that it'll be a subset of them rather than all of them. The lightning and cold spells just don't fit with Eothas to my mind. We'll know soon enough.

 

I'm still concerned with how rogue abilities will match up to spells in terms of power per use for priests of Skaen, considering how balancing may account for the greater frequency with which rogues can use individual abilities in comparison to spells, and the delayed/limited access to normally out of class spells/abilities for these subclasses (https://jesawyer.tum...-like-priest-of) may exacerbate the issue further.

 

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that's balanced. In particular it seems to suggest that a Skaenite Priest will gain very little from multiclassing with a Rogue, which would otherwise seem the most natural class to pair with.

 

I find the barbarian's mage slayer subclass somewhat boring, but I think meshes well conceptually with the soul blade or assassin (though I expect an assassin combo to be worse given the damage vulnerability). It might blend favorably with the nalpazca monk since the latter would allow the character to maximize benefits from drugs, which they might have a lot more use for since they can't use potions and scrolls.

 

Part of my problem with the Mage Slayer is it just doesn't really tempt me (the same was true of the Mage Slayer in Shadows of Amn) so I suspect that no matter how good it ends up being I'll never play it.

 

As for the assassin subclass, I understand the reasoning behind its strengths and weaknesses but specifically boosting the incoming damage against a character with the subclass may have the effect of making them even squishier than wizards, which seems a little odd to me.

 

It seems to pair well with a traditional Monk. A class with a fairly high Health pool who wants to get hurt. I am thinking about a Shattered Pillar/Assassin, although Shattered Pillar/Trickster also tempts.

 

I find myself considering some of the subclasses more for companions than for the Watcher, actually. I could see Eder as a streetfighter/stalker, for example, or Serafen as a beguiler/skald (not that I see any particular synergy in those two subclasses, but I get the feeling they'd match his character). I'm also looking forward to more details on companion-specific subclasses, but I wonder how many will have them besides Xoti and Tekehu.

 

Do we know whether companions can take subclasses for both their multiclass options? I know that Xoti has special Monk and Priest subclasses, so is probably forced to take at least one of those and maybe both if you choose Priest/Monk, but I wonder about the others.

 

Eder taking Ranger as a second class is a good idea. My own was making him a Figher/Priest of Eothas for roleplay reasons.


Edited by JerekKruger, 25 September 2017 - 01:25 AM.


#7
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I don't like that the Paladins all have downsides.  I wonder if Paladins were made stronger for PoE 2.  If not hopefully Pallegina has a good Paladin subclass.



#8
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I don't like that the Paladins all have downsides.  I wonder if Paladins were made stronger for PoE 2.  If not hopefully Pallegina has a good Paladin subclass.

 

Well the Shieldbearer's are almost without downside: just make sure you have some potions and/or another source of healing in your party.



#9
blotter

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As for the elemental spells, I suspect that it'll be a subset of them rather than all of them. The lightning and cold spells just don't fit with Eothas to my mind. We'll know soon enough.

 

Maybe, but Pillars 1 had only six Druid spells from levels 1-8 that deal with fire and/or sunlight: Sunbeam (1st level), Burst of Summer Flame (2nd level), Firebrand (2nd level), Firebug (5th level), Sunlance (6th level), and Firestag (8th level). I suspect there'll probably more spells along these lines in Pillars 2, but not necessarily for every spell level and almost certainly not enough to match the loss of access to an entire category of priest spells, even if a lot of the "Prayer Against..." spells that presumably fall under the category of Protection would probably be popular choices to skip over anyway.

 

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that's balanced. In particular it seems to suggest that a Skaenite Priest will gain very little from multiclassing with a Rogue, which would otherwise seem the most natural class to pair with.

 

Compared to the other priest subclasses, I'm not too worried about priests of Skaen not getting much out multiclassing as rogues. For one thing, the rogue still brings sneak attacks to the table, which may not be one of the priest of Skaen's choices since it's a passive ability and it may be the intrinsic feature of the rogue class as opposed to something it selects at chargen/level up. For another, the rogue multiclass would allow the priest of Skaen more flexibility in terms of how often they can use their rogue abilities while also granting them to opportunity to gain more of them without having to choose them at the expense of new priest spells. And that's without considering the added versatility from a priest of Skaen/trickster combination, or the ability of Protection spells from the priest side to shore up the assassin subclass' weakness.

 

Part of my problem with the Mage Slayer is it just doesn't really tempt me (the same was true of the Mage Slayer in Shadows of Amn) so I suspect that no matter how good it ends up being I'll never play it.

 

Yeah, somehow it seems like the most overwhelmingly generic subclass to me, even though berserker, assassin, lifegiver, sharpshooter are more or less as derivative in terms of the fantasy staples they correspond to. At least for them, it's pretty clear why they're associated with their particular classes, but a mage slayer could have just as easily been a fighter, ranger, or even rogue subclass. I don't anticipate ever making a mage slayer Watcher and it doesn't really seem to match up with the companions' personalities from what little I know about them, but I might throw it on a recruit or Rekke if I can.

 

Do we know whether companions can take subclasses for both their multiclass options? I know that Xoti has special Monk and Priest subclasses, so is probably forced to take at least one of those and maybe both if you choose Priest/Monk, but I wonder about the others.

 

Presumably, any companions that have unique subclasses will have to have those subclasses if you choose that class for them. I looked into it a bit more since my last post and the following companions are confirmed to have unique subclasses: Maia, Pallegina (maybe or maybe not depending on the first game, but she'll have a mandatory subclass either way), Serafen, Tekehu, and Xoti. Neither Aloth nor Eder will have unique subclasses of their own (https://jesawyer.tum...companions-will) but two of the sidekicks will (not Ydwin, but I'd be surprised if Rekke wasn't one of them if the devs keep him in the final sidekick roster).

 

Per the first Q&A (https://www.twitch.t...024818?t=23m42s), companions are supposed to have the option to have subclasses even if they don't have unique ones associated with them. The devs might change their minds, though.

 

One thing I do remember reading is that they might impose some multiclassing restrictions for companion subclass selection based on their personalities (e.g., so Eder couldn't be a Bleakwalker paladin), but I can't seem to find a source for that right now.

 

Eder taking Ranger as a second class is a good idea. My own was making him a Figher/Priest of Eothas for roleplay reasons.

 

The fighter/priest combination does make sense, though I'll probably avoid making him an Eothasian priest in any of my play-throughs because I think his unresolved questions and doubts regarding Eothas/the Saint's War are as much a part of his character as his faith.

 

Part of me actually wants to avoid making Eder a ranger just because there was a thread about it earlier this year (which admittedly isn't much of a reason, but there it is). The stalker/streetfighter combo occurred to me while I was considering how I might develop Eder if I made him a rogue since it seemed like an interesting multiclass choice and it seemed to fit him best out of the companions. Multiclassing him as a Kind Wayfarer might also be sort of appropriate. There's his distaste for fanatics to consider, but of the order seems humble and laid back enough not to be problematic to him even though they're technically powered by zeal.


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#10
Climhazzard

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Depending on how their magic resistance works I could see a Pale Elf Mage Slayer being a good front line pick if you don't want to care to much about friendly fire from your own spell casters.



#11
MaxQuest

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^ It's also interesting to know if [all] beneficial spells on them do have a shortened duration, or only those cast by them.

It could be a nice subclass for a melee debilitator. Particularly thinking about mage slayer + skald combo. Dump MIG completely, max PER/DEX/INT and focus on spamming cc-invocations. Assuming that carnage hits do count as "melee crits".

Another cc-skald variant could involve berserker. If inflicted allied damage is low enough, such skald could also crit his own partymembers for the phrase generation. Also if "more powerful frenzy" means that it gets a higher bonus to recovery speed or a bonus hit-to-crit conversion it would be even better. And if not... than skald-berserker could be built as a damage dealer instead, with high MIG and focused on something like Seven Nights.

 
Also thinking of a plain and simple Devoted Sharpshooter with a [low penetration, high damage] ranged weapon. Can't wait to see the penetration damage coefficients.

Edited by MaxQuest, 26 September 2017 - 01:30 AM.


#12
Madscientist

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OK, so far I would like to use:

 

- melee class + priest of wael or illusionist: A melee char uses protection spells like mirror image so its harder to hit him. Could also use a few other spells to debuff or damage enemies, but mainly its a well protected melee attacker. If there was an invisibility spell, rogues with backstab would be happy.

 

- melee class + skald: passively damaging enemies or buffing party with chants while attacking in melee. Can use some AoE CC spells if needed, else just take the special attacks of your melee class.

 

- Any combination of fighter, monk, paladin and chanter to get a char who is tanky and damaging at the same time without depending on spells.

 

Otherwise I would use a single class char, because several subclasses are kind of a multi class by themselves.



#13
morhilane

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I don't like that the Paladins all have downsides.  I wonder if Paladins were made stronger for PoE 2.  If not hopefully Pallegina has a good Paladin subclass.

 

Pallegina has the Frermàs mes Canc Suolias Paladin subclass unless they make the check to see if she is now a Kind Wayfarers based on that possible POE1 ending. We know her Sworn Enemy (it was in POE1 too).



#14
Climhazzard

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I could see Troubadour being a good multi class combination with Paladin for some kind of passive Aura tank.  Would need high intelligence though which might limit you from using Pallegina for such a combination, going by her PoE stats.



#15
Torm51

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Hey I have not been tracking specifics on POE 2 cause I want it to be a surprise I just no the basics.  What is Zeal Power for Paladins?



#16
morhilane

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Hey I have not been tracking specifics on POE 2 cause I want it to be a surprise I just no the basics.  What is Zeal Power for Paladins?


It's the per-encounter resource of Paladin, abilities will cost zeal to use.



#17
blotter

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Hey I have not been tracking specifics on POE 2 cause I want it to be a surprise I just no the basics.  What is Zeal Power for Paladins?

 

It's their power source. Conceptually, it refers to what allows a paladin to harness the power of their soul, the force of their convictions. Each class has a different one. For example, a priest's power source is Faith, a chanter's power source is Spirits (if memory serves), and a fighter's power source is Discipline. 

 

Mechanically, progression in power level (tied to that source) may determine how often you can use abilities, how powerful these abilities are when you use them, and other scaling variables (e.g., the number of missiles that are generated by Minoletta’s Minor Missiles for wizards based on their power level). Tying it back to paladins/Zeal, your Zeal power level would determine how many times you can use Flames of Devotion in a fight and how much damage it inflicts when you do so.



#18
Torm51

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Got ya.  I was a big Darcozzi fan mechanically in POE 1 (I liked the RP too) so that is going to be a weird one.  So as a Darcozzi you will do everything less? Less Flames of Devotion? Less Heals etc for a Lay on Hands Fire Shield that most likely retaliates eh?  Fires of the Darcozzi Palace sucked in POE 1 so lets hope that gets buffed.  I could see that being good when a party member is getting hit you can make the attackers pay after the heal. But less Alpha Strikes? Less heals?

 

Its better then the Goldpact Knight.  The Sworn Enemy armor thing sounds really cool but no auras on a Paladin?  Odd. lol



#19
blotter

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So as a Darcozzi you will do everything less? Less Flames of Devotion? Less Heals etc for a Lay on Hands Fire Shield that most likely retaliates eh?

 

Presumably. Paladins won't be getting per encounter uses for each ability, but rather, each use of a given ability will deduct an amount from a common pool that refreshes per encounter (e.g., using Flames of Devotion might subtract 2 points from the paladin's available Zeal for an encounter - see https://jesawyer.tum...l-post-so-these for Sawyer's summary of how ability resources will work for the different classes, paladins included).

 

Based on this information, "less Zeal power" likely means that this common pool won't be as high for Darcozzi paladins (who knows by how much), but at the extreme end of things, it could even refer to power level, which, as I mentioned earlier, has bearing on how abilities scale in terms of damage and other effects. The latter interpretation seems so extreme, though, that I agree that the effect is probably limited to the per encounter pool for abilities rather than making everything they do weaker.

 

The Darcozzi's benefit might also apply to Healing Chain somehow if it's folded into Lay on Hands or there's a similar option to extend its effects to other party members, but I tend to agree that it sounds like a lot to miss out on for a flaming shield every now and then. The loss of auras for Goldpact Knights came as a surprise to me as well, since they seemed like a pretty big part of defining the class in terms of its role as a leader on the front lines.


Edited by blotter, 28 September 2017 - 02:59 PM.


#20
morhilane

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If the Darcozzi gets less power (as in class power level), they are going to be 2 to 3* levels behind everyone else for all class features, so I don't think that's what they meant. That would effectively make the class weaker than multiclassed. It is most probably just the zeal per-encounter resource pool that is lower because the shield has a duration. Just like the Golden Pack can't use auras because they have a shiny golden selfish aura instead.
 
*starting at level 13 you gain +1 power every 3 levels instead of 2 for single classed, multiclassed is every 3 level which means a Darcozzi would be like 6 level behind if multiclassed....






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