Politics 2017 Act 6

[Sarex]

That just blew my mind.

 

That is the sad truth. While everyone does have a right to free healthcare, people have to take a number... Almost every doctor in the government healthcare system has a private clinic and that private clinic lets you skip the ticket machine (they even use government facilities to do the procedures).

 

Usually, the people who have an urgent issue get pushed up the line, but that again depends on how old you are and other factors.

[Azdeus]

 

...my employee was loosing sight and needed surgery asap or be blind forever and got a term for operation in government healthcare system in 7...years. We (company) paid for his surgery and the same doctor, in the same hospital made his surgery in 4 days after the payment.

That just blew my mind.

 

 

My friend got his treatment in 24 hours, the problem lies not in public healthcare but where they've chosen to put their funding.

 

 

 

 

That just blew my mind.

 

That is the sad truth. While everyone does have a right to free healthcare, people have to take a number... Almost every doctor in the government healthcare system has a private clinic and that private clinic lets you skip the ticket machine (they even use government facilities to do the procedures).

 

Usually, the people who have an urgent issue get pushed up the line, but that again depends on how old you are and other factors.

 

 

This is mindblowing to me, they're using government facilities for their private clinics? Sounds more like a scam to me.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Azdeus

[Sarex]

This is mindblowing to me, they're using government facilities for their private clinics? Sounds more like a scam to me.

 

They just write it up as if they examined you in the government institution, it's basically just skipping the line for cash.

 

 

 

My friend got his treatment in 24 hours, the problem lies not in public healthcare but where they've chosen to put their funding.

 

The problem lies in the population of the country, the economic state of the country and the level of corruption.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Sarex

[Gfted1]

 

This is mindblowing to me, they're using government facilities for their private clinics? Sounds more like a scam to me.

 

They just write it up as if they examined you in the government institution, it's basically just skipping the line for cash.

 

 

My friend got his treatment in 24 hours, the problem lies not in public healthcare but where they've chosen to put their funding.

 

The problem lies in the population of the country, the economic state of the country and the level of corruption.

 

 

I'm genuinely having a hard time wrapping my brain around that wait time. To me, blindness ranks pretty high up there on the "urgency scale". And Poland only has a population ~10% of the US. My government cant find its ass with both hands, this type heath system would be a total catastrophe here.

[Hurlshort]

 

I found it hilarious when people call inhumane something that is strictly practiced by humans. I found the concept of something being humane or not ridiculous.

 

 

This isn't how words work.

[Gfted1]

Ok, so lets assume those two wait times (24h and 7y) represent extreme outliers in each direction. Can some of you guys from across the pond give me some more examples of typical wait times for various procedures?

[Elerond]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.b1e7bb6fb436

 

"President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”"

 

Trump seems to go by old saying "keep friends away and enemies closer" 

[Azdeus]

Ok, so lets assume those two wait times (24h and 7y) represent extreme outliers in each direction. Can some of you guys from across the pond give me some more examples of typical wait times for various procedures?

Iirc my father had to wait two months to get his cataract surgery, my mother got her chemo for arthritis pretty quickly aswell.

 

Also

http://vantetider.se/Kontaktkort/Sveriges/SpecialiseradOperation/ Specialist surgery (Section "Hur länge har man väntat"=How long did they wait; Dagar=Days)

http://vantetider.se/Kontaktkort/Sveriges/SpecialiseradBesok/ Specialist treatment

Edited May 15, 2017 by Azdeus

[Volourn]

So.. a black woman  who happens to be a scientist won mIss USA.... and the liberals SJW nazis are hating on her.... why? she isn't a feminist... she's an equalist.

 

 

Talk about hating on someone because you fialed to brainwash them.LMFAO

Edited May 15, 2017 by Volourn

[Sarex]

Azdeus, dude that's Sweden, that's the ideal of how things should be.

 

Ok, so lets assume those two wait times (24h and 7y) represent extreme outliers in each direction. Can some of you guys from across the pond give me some more examples of typical wait times for various procedures?

 

It really depends. It's not really as hopeless as Sharp_One has shown, tbh I never heard of someone waiting for any procedure for longer than a year. Maybe if there is only one place to get it in the whole country, but even then... For the usual stuff it goes from a few days to 6 months. For an example it takes a few days to get an appointment with a general practice doctor for an examination (or you can go the same day but you would have a lower priority then those who have an appointment), but it could take up to 6 month to get an ultrasound for you kidneys. All this changes if it's an emergency, ie. you are at an immediate risk of dying, then you don't have to wait of course.

[majestic]

Ok, so lets assume those two wait times (24h and 7y) represent extreme outliers in each direction. Can some of you guys from across the pond give me some more examples of typical wait times for various procedures?

 

 

Ok, so lets assume those two wait times (24h and 7y) represent extreme outliers in each direction. Can some of you guys from across the pond give me some more examples of typical wait times for various procedures?

 

You could poke around the data collected by the OECD.

 

http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/waiting-times.htm

 

It's comparing waiting times for three specific elective surgical procedures. It's by no means perfect but much better than simply gathering a couple of anecdotes here and there.

 

Doesn't say anything about the quality of emergency procedures though.

[Zoraptor]

Ok, so lets assume those two wait times (24h and 7y) represent extreme outliers in each direction. Can some of you guys from across the pond give me some more examples of typical wait times for various procedures?

I'd take the 7 years one with more than a grain of salt. That's definitely an elective wait time, not an urgent one. Either it's a made up anecdote or Sharpie got scammed by the employee andor their doctor, trying to get a private op fee rather than a (lower) public one.

 

For more scientific data. Again, none of those ops are urgent, they're all elective. Urgent stuff gets done, well, urgently eg my dad severed a tendon once and had an operation within an hour of getting to hospital. It's different for carpal tunnel say, which my mother had. A 6 week wait for someone who is retired and doesn't really 'need' the op is pretty good really, if she wanted it immediately she could always have gone private.

[Leferd]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.b1e7bb6fb436

 

"President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”"

 

Trump seems to go by old saying "keep friends away and enemies closer"

Technically, wouldn't this be Trump team collusion with the Russian government?

 

But hey, he's POTUS and as such can declassify and reveal whatever Intel he wants.

[Gromnir]

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.b1e7bb6fb436

 

"President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”"

 

Trump seems to go by old saying "keep friends away and enemies closer"

Technically, wouldn't this be Trump team collusion with the Russian government?

 

But hey, he's POTUS and as such can declassify and reveal whatever Intel he wants.

 

well, there was a single journalist in the room at the time o' the meeting, so perhaps we could ask him what actual happened.  

 

...

 

'course he is a russian photographer working for russian state-run media.  no american journalist were allowed in the room. 

 

who coulda' possible seen this kinda thing happening? with numerous wh leaks and accusations o' collusion 'tween the trump campaign and the russians, is utter shocking such a meeting, at this time, might result in bad press for the wh.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 15, 2017 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

Certainly believable he'd reveal something by bragging.

[Gromnir]

http://time.com/4779985/trey-gowdy-fbi-director-replacement-james-comey-donald-trump/

 

first candidate to withdraw.  doubt is the last. find successor for vacated fbi director spot could very easy look like an attempt to fill the cleveland browns head coach job.  don't be surprised when the sheriff from etowah county alabama preemptive takes self out of the running.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 16, 2017 by Gromnir

[HoonDing]

Lock them all up.

[Ben No.3]

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.b1e7bb6fb436

 

"President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”"

 

Trump seems to go by old saying "keep friends away and enemies closer"

Wrong thread mate. Should be in alternative facts.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/05/15/mcmaster-wapo-classified-info-story-is-false-i-was-in-the-room-it-didnt-happen/

So, the investigative reporters found one explanation, and Breitbar newspaper, an other. And Breitbarts debunk is half a paragraph. And Breitbart has obvious ties to Trump. Are we supposed to belive you?

[Leferd]

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.b1e7bb6fb436

 

"President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”"

 

Trump seems to go by old saying "keep friends away and enemies closer"

Wrong thread mate. Should be in alternative facts.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/05/15/mcmaster-wapo-classified-info-story-is-false-i-was-in-the-room-it-didnt-happen/

 

 

Per NBC News' Brad Jaffy, pay attention to what McMaster actually tried to refute. "At no time were sources or methods discussed." The reporting never mentioned Trump revealing the sources or methods. That's a classic Red Herring.

 

Additionally, the Washington Post reporters vetted the reporting directly with Administration and/or Intelligence officials who specifically requested that the newspaper not publish certain specific details on account of national security. They wouldn't do that unless the reporting was correct. The Editorial board wouldn't give the green light to publish this story unless multiple reliable sources confirmed the reporting.

 

[Zoraptor]

"The story that came out tonight was false" seems pretty unequivocal, as does "I was in the room, it didn't happen." Both of those are direct quotes from McMaster as well, from the beginning and end of his brief statement. The first one doesn't have any potential qualifiers either. Frankly, if all Trump did was mention a city then it's literally nothing since you could count the number of cities ISIS controls on one hand even if you'd had an unpleasant accident manually loading an industrial mincer.

 

There's also a consistency problem. Papers like the WaPo have claimed that Trump isn't a 'detail' man and have even said that he doesn't take intelligence briefings, neither of which meshes well with him giving away information likely to compromise sources. That requires the knowledge of both details and having been briefed on them.

 

Given that the US and UK received the intelligence it's almost certainly of Jordanian origin (plus their intelligence service is actually competent and they aren't carte blanche jihadi lovers unlike most of the other suspects), and their reasons for not wanting it disclosed equally likely has its roots in not wanting retribution from the far richer countries whose airlines have been targeted in response.

[Gromnir]

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.b1e7bb6fb436

 

"President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”"

 

Trump seems to go by old saying "keep friends away and enemies closer"

Wrong thread mate. Should be in alternative facts.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/05/15/mcmaster-wapo-classified-info-story-is-false-i-was-in-the-room-it-didnt-happen/

 

 

Per NBC News' Brad Jaffy, pay attention to what McMaster actually tried to refute. "At no time were sources or methods discussed." The reporting never mentioned Trump revealing the sources or methods. That's a classic Red Herring.

 

Additionally, the Washington Post reporters vetted the reporting directly with Administration and/or Intelligence officials who specifically requested that the newspaper not publish certain specific details on account of national security. They wouldn't do that unless the reporting was correct. The Editorial board wouldn't give the green light to publish this story unless multiple reliable sources confirmed the reporting.

 

 

this is a potential fubar moment for the President.

 

if the city name where an operation is taking place and other details is too sensitive to be disclosed by the washington post, then the President shouldna' have disclosed to the russians.

 

if such details is not particular sensitive, then is no reason for the wh or the washington post to keep such details unspoken.  

 

within a couple o' days, is gonna become quite apparent if there were a breach by the President. silence by wh regarding details will be damning. washington post is sitting on a potential powder keg as eventual somebody is gonna wanna subpoena them, particular if the wh does remain silent. 

 

the terse wh response thus far is not a condemnation by any means.  is quite possible this story could be nothing save for yet another example o' the predictable bad judgment o' the President. having such a close-door meeting with russian diplomats and russian state journalism present, given the current p00p storm regarding the comey firing and the ongoing russian-trump campaign collusion investigation, were curious even before the washington post story. 

 

could be nothing.  or...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Elerond]

There's also a consistency problem. Papers like the WaPo have claimed that Trump isn't a 'detail' man and have even said that he doesn't take intelligence briefings, neither of which meshes well with him giving away information likely to compromise sources. That requires the knowledge of both details and having been briefed on them.

 

You don't necessary need to give much of details to compromise sensitive source.

 

General details like type of action and general area in world may be enough in some cases as there isn't that many actors in that area of world with ability to give that type of intelligence. Because Russia and other players have their own intelligence gathering efforts that let them fulfill missing pieces fast when they get general direction where to look. So bragging, for example, about such intelligence actually tells that bragger most likely has not actually listened details abut intelligence briefings and isn't very detail oriented and up to date about things.

[Chilloutman]

I am sorry but what did he shared with Russia? Sounds like some info about terrorists? That doesn't sound bad at all?

[Malcador]

I am sorry but what did he shared with Russia? Sounds like some info about terrorists? That doesn't sound bad at all?

I guess the concern was his carelessness in doing so. Odd thing to use to show what a big man he is, etc.

 

Trump must be great at poker.

[Guard Dog]

So it turns out Seth Rich, the DNC staffer who was murdered during the election madness last year, had been passing info to Wikileaks: http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/254852337-story

 

Trump compromising intelligence to the Russians, the Democrats having their own people murdered (granted neither is 100% provable but if you can believe one why not the other). Hoon Ding was right. Lock them all up.

 

Don't blame me. I voted for Johnson.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Guard Dog