THE FINAL MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS (BUILD) THREAD

[Boeroer]

You can build a rogue more tankier then a fighter or paladin.

Good joke. You can build him tanky enough, that's true. Another nice approach is to use Badgradr's Barricade and have both high deflection and reflex as well as good damage. But do the same with any other class, especially fighter or paladin, and it's more tanky. So your statement is not true.

 

By the way if you build and play your rogue that way you will have to rest frequently because of low health (not endurance).

Rogues have one of the crappiest health pool (I seriously don't know why). Maybe you meant endurance - but that' also bad compared to most other classes.

 

And even if the rogue was more sturdy he would still be the weakest class overall. Sure, running around with dual disabling weapons can be fun - but it's not as much fun (in my opinion) as watching a barb doing the same thing to a while crowd. Rogues can't do anything besides single target damage and maybe single stunlocking. Nothing else - and that's just not good enough on PoTD - after the ealy game - compared to the things that ALL other classes can bring to the table. So that's why I say rogues are the weakest class. Most other classes can be build in a way that they kill a bunch of enemies faster than a rogue. And those who can't can do something else like doing better CC or giving great support.

 

You are still not willing to show me a screenshot or a video of a rogue doing some great stuff I take it. As I said: do Nalrend or his gang in front of the cave with a rogue and then I'll do the same with another class of my choice. Or choose another encounter, doesn't really matter.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Boeroer

[indika_tates]

A burst of summer flame of Hiravias (level 2 spell vs reflex) against the paralized mobs would have done more damage than that rogue in 30s of fighting. I estimated about 300 damage vs vessels more or less.  This is a class I ever tried to play because I find rogues interesting. And you can play with a rogue MC on POTD but everything you can do with a Rogue there is another class that do it better. I'm with Boeroer. A spiritshift druid outdamage a deathblow one by a far margin. You can have the tankiest rogue of the game but with the current health pool you can't fight more than 2/2.5x your endurance.

 

You can notice that in the video there is a large percentage of your rogue damage being eaten by vessels DR. The more you advance in the game, the higher the DR of the foes then less effective your dual wield becomes. If one of the battery's Sirens engage your Rogue is a guaranteed knockout as happened with Aloth.I hope they fix Rogues for POE2, because at the moment there is no incentive to choose this class, sadly.

Edited March 19, 2017 by indika_tates

[Boeroer]

Josh said that PoE2 rogues will be sturdier. He meant the "vanilla" version. And the new subclass, the Assassin, will focus on single target damage and be more fragile than the normal PoE2 rogue - sounds like the PoE1 rogue. Maybe we will even see a very tough subclass, like a Pit Fighter or something like that - who knows. Or a very nimble thief subclass with evasion and stuff.

I like that. That way you can also play something like a burly doorman rogue or a tough bodyguard rogue without the drawbacks (low edurance, health an deflection) all the PoE1 rogues have. I generally like rogue classes a lot. But on PoE1 they are a bit too boring (one trick pony) and too tedious to play as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't have to be the case for other players though.

 

Josh also said there will be pickpocketing and also reverse pickpockting. Now that would be a reason to bring a rogue in every playthrough even if they are not no. 1 single target damage dealer (or whatever they are supposed to be good at). I'm looking forward to Bronteru.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

Hey, i wrote earlier that i agree with Boeroer and others about Rogue. More than that, i wrote calculations about maximum possible rogue damage which is 95 with Deadblows, Crit and Superb weapon. And about druid damage too. No arguments here. See my previous posts in this tread.

Your question was "how manage rogue to survive"? I showed you example. Short answer - attack only disabled enemies, prefer light armored ones.

About my video - as i wrote, there is only 10 level, so no Deadblows. But if they were exist, the damage increase only by 11-16 (100% of base damage).

About engaging by top enemy DD, like Siren - rogue have Hide in Shadows, it's the miracle "Oh, ****" ability.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Phenomenum

[Phenomenum]

Another thing - after i've done my playtrough with druid, i desided to make a rogue for last playtrough and transfer to Deadfire, but i forgot how to manage with rogue and he start to die very often. It's very strange, tricky class.

[Boeroer]

Hehe - I started a rogue for the same reason (and because nostalgia - it was my first MC class in PoE)... and at lvl 8 I restarted with a monk. Can't tell you in words how much easier and more fun it is with a monk - if you like monks that is.

[Natures Bounty]

 

If you keep having this argument with people on this forum (which you have admitted above) then maybe people have different opinions other then yours and obvisouly someone is wrong and someone is right. Who cares. Me (and others) have built rogues that work very well.

 

I think nobody stated that rogues are not viable to play and no one stated that they cannot be fun to play. You can totally solo the game with a rogue.

If you like them, I think it says something good about you, as you seemingly like playing a class that most others find more difficult than other classes. And there is also a lot of truth to that:

Rogues do not provide a lot of AoE damage, AoE CC, or powerful self-buffs, but those are more important aspects to determine the power of a class than single-target-dps or single-target-CC provided by a weapon. On PotD, there are so many foes that you have to beat - that's just easier if you can CC and damage several foes simultaneously. 

 

Don't get me wrong: If you love rogues, that's a good thing, please continue to do that. But if you really believe they are more powerful than chanters, ciphers, monks etc. you have to show that on a video, because most people here would not believe that.

 

@ Boeroer: Or could you not just start the challenge by yourself and post a video? I'm very curious to see you play and learn from it ;-)

[Phenomenum]

Hehe - I started a rogue for the same reason (and because nostalgia - it was my first MC class in PoE)... and at lvl 8 I restarted with a monk. Can't tell you in words how much easier and more fun it is with a monk - if you like monks that is.

I'm curious about monk, but it's a Deep Dark Forest for me (figure of speech, of course) - never understand how to handle with this guys. Monk abilities seems far more versatile and flexible than rogues, but Zahua always die in the middle of fight, surrounded by foes, becose i always want create a brave tanky kung-fu panda

[QuiteGoneJin]

I like how the talk about most OP classes went from focusing on them (Wiz/Druid/Priest) to arguing over silly already proven facts about the worst class in the game. 

[firkraag888]

yeah im going to try and get a mod to clean it up.

 

people don't want to read this crap

[Boeroer]

Well you had a big part in creating "this crap". I find it interesting enough to read though - no insulting or aggression so far. That's a good thing, even if we disagree completely and you try to evade my challenge.

 

A quite civilized discussion for such an emotional (or so it seems) topic. So it's all cool.

 

I could do a video. Why not? I will come up with something. Maybe it will take some time because today is the day where they start to build my new house and I'm pretty sure there's a lot of hard, back-aching work waiting for me...

Edited March 20, 2017 by Boeroer

[Nail]

Let's duel!

 

This would be awesome, but it seems Obsidian is not interested in such feature neither PoE I, nor PoE II: Deadfire

[Boeroer]

I meant it in a way than one tries to solve a given encounter better than the other player.

 

It would be great if OBS would give us a kind of PvP arena in PoE2. Or maybe a mod is possible, don't know.

[Phenomenum]

Too many variables - party composition, party level, equipment and weapons.

You may use weapons end equipment, which other player never finds - so it already not fair competition.

One proper way - is to do it from one save.

[Phenomenum]

If we comparing tactical abilities of players and knowlege of game mechanics, anyway...

[BALONEYPWNY]

The creator of this topic wrote:

"Chanters suck" OK, I am closing the page now.

Oh c'mon man, Rangers only have Twinned Arrow and he doesn't like Monks, therefore they're the worst class.

 

How can you argue against such durganized reasoning?

[Boeroer]

The best way would be to use the console. Who wants to play through the game every time he wants to try out a new build idea in a certain encounter?

 

All my build ideas are tested with tje console first and if they seem to be good I will put them through the whole game - not the other way round.

 

And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. Else you couldn't compare properly. But if you want to compare single target damage or overall damage - which are pretty narrow things - you can easily define some simple rules and try it out. And if we see afterwards that it wasn't fair game we could still adapt the rules.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Boeroer

[Gorgon]

Hello, I'm a mod. Just here to say that I prefer the light touch and as far as I can see people are still talking about class builds. 

[Boeroer]

"Durganized reasoning" - I have to write that one down into my book of awesome phrases.

[Phenomenum]

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

[Hariwulf]

The most embarrasing thing for a rogue is that a spiritshifted druid outperforms him in single target damage without the need of Sneak Attack and Deathblows AND can cast awesome stuff on top of that. A monk with 10 wounds also can compete in single target CC & damage but has high endurance/health/deflection and can do AoE stuff like Torment's Reach and even has the most awesome ranged weapon there is.

I concord.

I swapped my ranger with a monk (call it Crusader/ Valkyrie). Max Might and Per. Heavy/ Medium armor (according lvl and quality). Sword and board (and a side 2 handed for high DR enemies).

Oh boy...the FUN I am having with it!!! It's a marvel to watch!

[Boeroer]

A monk with a shield is unusual but cool.

 

Once you find Badgradr's Barricade please give it to the monk and try if it still procs Thrust of Tattered Veils with the cone of Torment's Reach, will you? It used to be very nice.

 

Oh - and the shield Aila Braccia is very nice for a monk who also has the missile reflection ability. Try it out against Lagufaeth! You will reflect every graze and a lot of misses. They will paralyze themselves and also Cleansing Flames of Thaos and Lagufaeth Broodmothers will be reflected.

[Boeroer]

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

I would say lvl 16 because spellcasters might want to use all spell levels.

Picking a level in between might be tricky because some abilities are peaks of power (like Heart of Fury, Sacred Immolation, Deathblows and so on) and picking the max level would be the easiest way to determine every class build is fully developed. If we wanted to be superthorough we could do encounters at lvl 4, 8 and 16 for example. But you can already see that this would be bad for chanters. Maybe 5, 9 and 16 - would be bad for rogues... And the finer the grid the more work and fuzz. It's tricky. So I would suggest lvl 16 - seems to be the most easiest way.

 

Nalrend encounter has a TON of endurance to reduce, a lot of damage and ACC and low defenses. It favours sturdy builds with high damage potential but not too high accuracy (like Dragon Thrashed chanter for example). But I still like it. Just saying. It's my number one testing encounter for builds, so maybe that's not fair.

[firkraag888]

 

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

I would say lvl 16 because spellcasters might want to use all spell levels.

Picking a level in between might be tricky because some abilities are peaks of power (like Heart of Fury, Sacred Immolation, Deathblows and so on) and picking the max level would be the easiest way to determine every class build is fully developed. If we wanted to be superthorough we could do encounters at lvl 4, 8 and 16 for example. But you can already see that this would be bad for chanters. Maybe 5, 9 and 16 - would be bad for rogues... And the finer the grid the more work and fuzz. It's tricky. So I would suggest lvl 16 - seems to be the most easiest way.

 

Nalrend encounter has a TON of endurance to reduce, a lot of damage and ACC and low defenses. It favours sturdy builds with high damage potential but not too high accuracy (like Dragon Thrashed chanter for example). But I still like it. Just saying. It's my number one testing encounter for builds, so maybe that's not fair.

 

The Banter has been thoroughly enjoyable but why don't we make it slightly more on topic......or is that off topic........im confused.

 

What do you @Boeroer think is the most powerful build you can possibly build in the the game.

 

Mine is the fire priest.

 

and I don't want any what about this or that just straight out give me your most powerful build for overall Power. Im talking Drizzt or Elminster style

[Hariwulf]

A monk with a shield is unusual but cool.

 

Once you find Badgradr's Barricade please give it to the monk and try if it still procs Thrust of Tattered Veils with the cone of Torment's Reach, will you? It used to be very nice.

 

Oh - and the shield Aila Braccia is very nice for a monk who also has the missile reflection ability. Try it out against Lagufaeth! You will reflect every graze and a lot of misses. They will paralyze themselves and also Cleansing Flames of Thaos and Lagufaeth Broodmothers will be reflected.

 

Dunno what would do without you. Thanks!

Yeah, this build is awesome for disable, damage and a bit of CC. It "leads" the tide of the battle much more than other melee dedicated classes. Disengage and movement are awesome to get where there is need, and with Passives etc, you crit like a beast!

 

Question: what you deem as most effective between dual wield and 2-handed as side option?

EDIT: I ask because I got a bit inspired by that dual bittercut build....... :D

 

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/90476143846035263/BC7EE470B26B3E09255A8373EAF2278B77C495FF/

 

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/90476143846035012/A26A67BD34F2C7283DC82AE4B370A773BC39B2C8/

 

Trying this with a Retailate armor, Barricade shield and a good saber.

I. EXPLODE. PEOPLE.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Hariwulf