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THE FINAL MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS (BUILD) THREAD


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#1
firkraag888

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OK.

 

So after probably over 10 play throughs and 1000 hours of gameplay I would like to finally discuss what I and everyone else thinks the most powerful classes and builds are. 

 

Now is a great time to clarify this because there will be no more meaningful patches and the game is completely end stage and a lot of people have finished playing it,

 

Most Powerful By Far Contenders:

 

1. Fire Priest:

 

- Build a Priest with Maximum Might and Dexterity, acquire the Maegfolc Skull (+4 might), Abydons Hammer (+4 might), get the Scion of flame talent, cast minor Avatar (+8 every stat) and then just sit back and  watch everything around you burn.  With Minor Avatar activated your buffs and debuffs are also super charged and Abydons Hammer will give you something like a 20 sec area of affect stun that can be used per encounter.

 

This is my No.1 most powerful build. The only problem with it is when you encounter enemies with a high burn DR although you will be dealing such huge amounts of damage you will usually punch through the DR anyway.

 

2. Wizard

 

- No set build is  needed or necessary with wizards they are allways powefull no matter how you build them. You can buff yourself to near invincibility summon  powerfull melee weapons and charge head on into the fray or you can cast haste sit back and unload your arsenal of ranged spells to completely devastate all shadowflame, fireballs, rake ect......

 

It can be argued that they are more powerful then the Fire Priest because they are more versatile.

 

3. The On affect Critical Hitting Rogue

 

- Rogues Wrongly have attracted a lot of criticism and to be honest I have no idea why.  I think a lot of regular users on this forum have a vendetta against them various reasons.  This Below Rogue Build is an absolute MONSTER.

 

High Dex, Perception, sneak attacks, deathblows, dirty fighting, viscous fighting, dual wield durganized Wetoki and Starcaller and everything else doesn't really matter. The on crit stun and prone will chain lock and render any opponent obsolete. On top of this you will be dishing out unparralled damage. The only class capable of going invisible then flanking your oponents rear to take out there casters. If built properly survivability is not a problem just give your rogue all the best defensive magic items you find and he will be able to tank wit the best of them. 

 

REST OF THE CLASSES IN ORDER

 

4. Fighter and Paladin tied for equal fourth.

 

- Giving both of them fourth purely for there defensive capabilities. A high intelligence fighter is the better tank with unbending and unbroken but the paladin can get all defensive stats up super high (Will, Fort, Reflex) and even gain immunities to charms ect with there high level paladin powers. Self Immolation is over rated and not that usefull at high levels. Fighter can be quite boring to play over all. Single weapon and small shield is the best way to build them.

 

5. Druid/ Cipher/ Ranger tied for equal fifth.

 

- I think druids are overated. The best thing they have going for them is Relentless Storm but the game just becomes and absolute yawn fest if you chain cast it. Enter combat cast storms, enter combat cast storms, enter combat cast storms, it just goes on and on and I try and avoid using druids for this reason.

 

- Cipher high level powers are awesome and great fun, amplified wave, mindweb, time parasite. Great fun class Obsidian did an awesome just creating it out of nothing

 

- Rangers, One trick pony with dual arrows. They don't have mush else.

 

6. Chanters/ Barbarians Monks Bottom of the Pack

 

- OMG Chanters suck have tried so many times to make them work but they just don't cut it for me. Dragon thrashed is good.

 

- Barbs. Now this is one class I put my heart and soul into trying to make them work. An analysis of the Barbarian will tell you they could be built effectively to take advantage of carnage and on crit weapons that stun prone. When built like this the on hit effect simply do not go off often enough to make it worth it. So hard to crit with carnage and the barbs have a low accuracry base regardless. Barbs can do a lot of damage with carnage but the damage is not dished out effectively eg you will be slowly chipping away with small damage amounts to groups of enemies while they stand around and cut you down unlike a rogue who will take enemies down one by one therefore creating less enemies to strike back. HOF is great and insane fun.

 

- Monks personally never liked them

 

 

 

 


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#2
MaxQuest

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I would like to finally discuss what I and everyone else thinks the most powerful classes and builds are.

Depends in what department :)

If we look by amount of total damage a character can dish out in 30-60s, fire priest is indeed #1.
If we look by amount of lazy per-encounter damage, than chanter, barbarian and cipher would get higher #.
If we look by overall cc than it's a tie between cipher and druid. And for hard/boss fights wizard is joining the club.
Also there is bonus utility in form of body-blocking, scroll using, buffing and healing.

In my personal opinion, I'd order classes in following manner:
- overall (without boss fights, rare resting): cipher >= dw_barbarian >= blasting-wizard >= monk >= druid >= chanter (past 9) >= paladin (past 13) >> paladin (pre 13) >> chanter (pre 9) 
- overall (boss fights): priest > wizard > cipher >= druid > paladin >= chanter >= monk > barbarian
- overall: wizard >= cipher >= priest > druid > paladin = chanter > barbarian = monk

I didn't include fighter, ranger, nor rogue.
Because:
- I haven't yet made a full play-through with a rogue. But imho they have two heavy opportunity cons: a). they are single target specialists, and there are many enemies on PotD, so one might take a class that also has some AoE; b). they lack hard cc.
- Fighter has no important group-oriented buffs, nor auras. His role of tank is often superseded by paladin. While a dps fighter can be substituted by melee cipher.
- Ranger - can be also superseded. Depending on party, it could be blasting-wizard, cipher, barb or monk.

- Barbs. Now this is one class I put my heart and soul into trying to make them work. An analysis of the Barbarian will tell you they could be built effectively to take advantage of carnage and on crit weapons that stun prone. When built like this the on hit effect simply do not go off often enough to make it worth it. So hard to crit with carnage and the barbs have a low accuracry base regardless. Barbs can do a lot of damage with carnage but the damage is not dished out effectively eg you will be slowly chipping away with small damage amounts to groups of enemies while they stand around and cut you down unlike a rogue who will take enemies down one by one therefore creating less enemies to strike back. HOF is great and insane fun.

Barb really shines in trash fights. Barbaric Blow + HoF can literally reduce fight duration by half, allowing you to rest twice as less.
Regarding accuracy: don't forget that carnage gets +1 acc per character level. Also any AoE stun/paralyze or brute force + painful interdiction do provide a huge bonus.

Edited by MaxQuest, 17 March 2017 - 03:55 AM.


#3
firkraag888

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^^^^^^^

I think that "most over powered " would not refer to trash/ mob fight effectiveness. If you look at it that way any class can kill trash mobs but some can do it quicker then others.

Interesting you rated cyphers high but yeah I will go with that. I personally don't think they are all that powerful but they are probably one off if not my favourite class to play. Such unique powers/ abilities.

Rangers, yeah I agree they are not that good but are quite powerful low-mid game when you get stormcaller cranking.

I staunchly disagree that barbs belong anywhere near that list for reasons stated above.

If you haven't tried that rogue build try it. I think you are undervaluing single target damage. That's rogue build is a walking God.

And yes I only ever play on POTD

#4
Livegood118

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I appreciate people have preferred classes in this game but I don't think it's right to tier the classes in this way unless you're looking at specific jobs and/or scenarios. 

 

What often doesn't get factored in to these debates, as MaxQuest highlighted above, is stuff like being able to provide consistent/lazy damage, or being able to do a job without much micro.

 

Also people have a tendency to focus on the end-game (e.g. level 15/16) rather than to look at the class's performance for the entirety of the game, which is much harder to measure.

 

Gear can also lead to varying strengths/weaknesses between classes as well.

 

So, for example, the question "Who is optimal to have for this Dragon Fight" vs "Who is optimal to have to fight these F****** Monks at the Abbey of the Fallen Moon" or "Who's got the defence to deal out sustained damage to these high threat foes?" all lead to different responses.

 

So much depends on party composition too.

 

I wouldn't say the classes are incommensurable. For example, barbs are hands down $hit to have around for dragon fights unless built in a specific counter-intuitive way, but are great for lots of other fights in the game. 


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#5
Livegood118

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Also, before you write Barbarians off, watch this video:

 



#6
firkraag888

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yeah right.

The topic of this thread is not the most overpowered build vs 10 xantrips.

It's not hard. Seriously.

#7
firkraag888

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Also, before you write Barbarians off, watch this video:

https://www.youtube....h?v=HSakyeWsN48

I've seen that video before. That barb is maxed out with food, potions , scrolls.

Any high level char can do that if buffed like that

But yeah is impressive

Edited by firkraag888, 17 March 2017 - 06:05 AM.


#8
Livegood118

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yeah right.

The topic of this thread is not the most overpowered build vs 10 xantrips.

It's not hard. Seriously.

 

 

 

Also, before you write Barbarians off, watch this video:
 

I've seen that video before. That barb is maxed out with food, potions , scrolls.

Any high level char can do that if buffed like that

But yeah is impressive

 

 

No need to be adversarial my friend. I'm really just pointing out that rather than asking "what's the most powerful class" you might have a better discussion if you ask "what's the most powerful at [x]". It shouldn't be controversial to point out that in a class based based system different guys are better at doing a different things.

 

As for the heart of fury video, I'd have to disagree and say that not every class can deal that much damage in an AoE that rapidly on a per encounter basis. In fact Heart of Fury probably gives you the highest short-term dps out of anything in the entire game.


Edited by Livegood118, 17 March 2017 - 06:22 AM.


#9
MaxQuest

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I think that "most over powered " would not refer to trash/ mob fight effectiveness. If you look at it that way any class can kill trash mobs but some can do it quicker then others.

Agreed / and not quite.

Imagine two parties:
- 1. is able to kill bosses. Goes fast through trash encounters.
- 2. is able to kill bosses fast. Goes through trash encounters slowly.

It comes up to the trash/boss fight ratio, to determine which party on average will have an easier time.

Interesting you rated cyphers high but yeah I will go with that. I personally don't think they are all that powerful but they are probably one off if not my favourite class to play. Such unique powers/ abilities.

Yeah, I am biased towards ciphers)
And have to mention that a dps cipher mostly shines if you already have a cc cipher in your group.
On the other hand, even having one adds enough power to kill dragons. (link


If you haven't tried that rogue build try it. I think you are undervaluing single target damage. That's rogue build is a walking God. And yes I only ever play on POTD

I know their st-damage potential. And was considering one, along with monk and 3rd cipher, as mains for the next run.
Although would probably change [We-Toki + Starcaller] to [Rimecutter + We-Toki/Barricade], with task of enabling deathblows delegated to party cipher. As MC, a rogue with The Merciless Hand can be decent.

#10
Boeroer

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Funny how different perceptions can be.

 

My experience (after 3345 gaming hours) is that rogues are the weakest class by far. All they can do is single target CC or damage which is not enough on PoTD in my opinion. Fighters suffer from the same problem, but Charge is very awesome.

And chanters and barbs are awesome, too. Chanters can deal damage or buff in a huge AoE while attacking things or sitting on their bottoms. Dragon Thrashed is the best mob remover there is and also works well with bosses - just switch to one handed setup in order to get +12 ACC for the chant and debuff reflex. That even brings dragons down slowly but steadily.

It's not difficult to crit with high level barb's carnage by the way because it gets +1 ACC per level because it's an ability. With Accurate Carnage your carnage ACC will be +11 compared to your normal attacks on lvl 16. That's on top of the AoE afflictions you should cast on the crowd into its midst the barb wants to jump/run. Maybe you didn't play a crit-barb until he reached higher levels?
And then there's Heart of Fury. As you can see you can wipe Magran's Faithful with it. It's not that easy with other classes who also use consumables. With most you'll have to pull & kite.

 

Monk: very powerful. Easiest class in the early game and keeps being awesome in the later game. One of the classes which is easy to play solo. 

 

Druids are awesome even without Spiritshift because some of their spells are so powerful and so much fun. Relentless Storm alone is a reason to pick a druid. I also like Rot Skull and sometimes retrain the druid into an implement user like a blast wizard one I can cast it.

 

Priest however is indeed the most powerful class if you can forget the first few levels.

 

Edit: maybe this thread should be moved to the more fitting subforum (character builds).


Edited by Boeroer, 17 March 2017 - 11:10 AM.

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#11
indika_tates

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A maxed intellect barbarian with a durganized Blade of the Endless Paths + food + Crowns for the faithful (36 INT. Divine 20base, 1+ pit, +4 ring +2 casitas +3 forum + 6 crowns) is so absurd that everything around him melts. The radius of AOE carnage was like a chanter one. I abandoned this gameplay because it has no challenge at all. Well, the abbey was tough but manageable.

 

I was playing around with a moon godlike and at level 14 she was knocked one time on the entire gameplay. And I was wearing Jack of Wide Waters during the gameplay having 2x damage more than the other party members combined.

 

And you're right Boeroer. A rogue offers nothing to the party compared to what other classes can offer. Is the worst class, frail, low health. The DPS against a single foe is the highest you can achieve but it's worth nothing if you are getting knocked from a loud sound.

 

This is the radius of an old save without the band of union. So the final AOE is even bigger.

 

21M5RmD.jpg


Edited by indika_tates, 17 March 2017 - 11:16 AM.

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#12
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The most embarrasing thing for a rogue is that a spiritshifted druid outperforms him in single target damage without the need of Sneak Attack and Deathblows AND can cast awesome stuff on top of that. A monk with 10 wounds also can compete in single target CC & damage but has high endurance/health/deflection and can do AoE stuff like Torment's Reach and even has the most awesome ranged weapon there is.


Edited by Boeroer, 17 March 2017 - 01:24 PM.

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#13
MountainTiger

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I would tier the classes:

 

Tier 1: Vancian casters (Priest, Druid, Wizard) - All of these classes are very versatile, and the spell mechanics mean they can do far more in bursts for tough fights than any other classes.

 

Tier 2: Multi-role support (Paladin, Chanter, Cipher) - Paladins have great defensive abilities and can put out impressive bursts of damage, Ciphers have a good mix of DPS and CC, and chanters with Dragon Thrashed do AOE damage like no other class while being free to fill other roles with their actions and invocations. All of these classes suffer compared to the casters by being balanced around passives, per-encounter abilities, and resources generated inside combat instead of per-rest abilities, meaning that their bursts tend to be less impressive and/or come later in fights.

 

Tier 3: Good DPSers (Ranger, Monk, Barbarian, Fighter) - Mostly useful for dealing damage, but with enough utility to not feel bad to have along: Rangers bring an extra frontliner, Fighters are great natural tanks, Barbarians give AOE damage/debuffs, Monks are tanky and have a good variety of abilities.

 

Tier 4: Rogues - Way too specialized on single targets and lack the Fighter's survivability.

 

My number 1 hope for POE2 is that Rogues get some love; they're the only class that I really don't like having in my party because of how little they do outside of single-target DPS.


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#14
firkraag888

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The most embarrasing thing for a rogue is that a spiritshifted druid outperforms him in single target damage without the need of Sneak Attack and Deathblows AND can cast awesome stuff on top of that. A monk with 10 wounds also can compete in single target CC & damage but has high endurance/health/deflection and can do AoE stuff like Torment's Reach and even has the most awesome ranged weapon there is.

just opened one of my playthroughs, everyone level 16

 

Spirit shifted druid to cat and was hitting in the 30's  (both fast weapons, claws)

 

Rogue was hitting in the 80's and chain stunning and knocking prone (one fast, one med)

 

don't no where your getting that from



#15
MountainTiger

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What talents and buffs do you have on the Druid? I'm not sure exactly what AndreaColombo had on for the shot at the bottom of this post, but his numbers are way closer to what I get on endgame Druids.



#16
draego

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The most embarrasing thing for a rogue is that a spiritshifted druid outperforms him in single target damage without the need of Sneak Attack and Deathblows AND can cast awesome stuff on top of that. A monk with 10 wounds also can compete in single target CC & damage but has high endurance/health/deflection and can do AoE stuff like Torment's Reach and even has the most awesome ranged weapon there is.

just opened one of my playthroughs, everyone level 16

 

Spirit shifted druid to cat and was hitting in the 30's  (both fast weapons, claws)

 

Rogue was hitting in the 80's and chain stunning and knocking prone (one fast, one med)

 

don't no where your getting that from

 

 

I didnt get this at all. Generally when shape shifted he hits harder than my twohanders and especially any dual wielders. I just opened a level 10 party with Hiravias, who isnt a power build, his hits are 50 points without any buffs on a medium armored kith.  That is with wildstrike and belt but still level 16 for 30 doesnt seem right. Spirit shifts druids are ridiculous. 


Edited by draego, 17 March 2017 - 09:35 PM.


#17
firkraag888

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does avenging storm work with each strike from a spirit shifted druid eg each claw strike like a dual weild?

 

if it does that pretty powerful...........for 20 secs


Edited by firkraag888, 17 March 2017 - 09:10 PM.


#18
Boeroer

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Yes.

And my druid hits consistently for 100 damage and more.

Wildstrike Shock, Greater Wildstrike Shock, Wildstrike Belt, Heart of the Storm, Savage Attack, Avenging Storm and either boar or cat form and your per hit damage will be higher than a rogue's, your speed will most likely be higher and you won't need afflictions for deathblows and stuff and you will have innate DR bypass, too. If I want I put on the Sanguine Plate or take Outlander's Frenzy and add a bit more MIG, but that's not really important.

Don't know what you did with your druid, but it's wrong if you wanted to focus on spiritshift.

This discussion has been done so often. Last time in the thread that asks for a rogue buff once more and even there the fiercest defender of rogues (streaker) had to admit that the druid does higher melee DPS than a rogue. I'm on my phone and too lazy and also too tired of that discussion again to link to that thread.

Sure, it's only while shifted - but a rogue also can't sustain Deathblows all the time and besides that he can't do anything else while the druid casts Relentless Storm and Plague of Insects and all other enemies (around that one whom he clawed to death) are stunned and die.

Monk is the same. Maybe he can't reach the damage per hit of a rogue with deathblows 100% of the time, bit once he accumulated 10 wounds and uses Turning Wheel, Lightning Strikes, Blood Testament Gloves and uses Scion of Flame and maybe also Heart of the Storm with a shocking lash on a weapon he will have 60% burning lash, 30% + 30% shocking lash and 20% raw lash. Since lashes are more powerful than mere weapon based DMG bonuses like Deathblows (multiplicative DMG bonus instead of additive) this is already better damage per hit than a rogue's. But as I said it's not possible to have have that all the time. But then he also has awesome CC capabilities and Torment's Reach which adds another 50% crushing lash.

If one says that a rogue is more powerful than a monk he simply doesn't know how to play a monk. That's my personal experience. I hold no grudge against rogues - I would like if they get buffed a bit. But my opinion after lots of hours of char building, testing, console magic and party play as well as solo play, hanging around and discussing in the forum is that rogues are the weakest class by far.

Edited by Boeroer, 17 March 2017 - 10:49 PM.

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#19
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Because I'm awake now anyways I searched for the discussion and also found some nice screenshots within it:

 

http://forums.obsidi...-2#entry1869590

 

Whatever - I think most of us agree that the priest may be no. 1 on the power level. He can do anything: buffs, damage, healing - only CC is a bit meh.

 

Doesn't matter if rogue carries the red lantern or not.


Edited by Boeroer, 17 March 2017 - 11:12 PM.


#20
firkraag888

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Because I'm awake now anyways I searched for the discussion and also found some nice screenshots within it:

 

http://forums.obsidi...-2#entry1869590

 

Whatever - I think most of us agree that the priest may be no. 1 on the power level. He can do anything: buffs, damage, healing - only CC is a bit meh.

 

Doesn't matter if rogue carries the red lantern or not.

 

If you want to look at it that way a spirit shifted druid will out dps any melee character with the rogue being at the top of that list. What is the point in having a Monk, fighter, Paladin or a Rogue? Just Roll 6 druids and keep spirit shifting.

 

By the time a druid spirit shifts and positions for melee you cant really get much off.

 

 Your also not taking into consideration the weapons the rogue can weild with its on crit effects and you haven't taken into consideration the amount of time the rogue will criticaly hit either.

 

The Rogue is far and away the highest dps class available in the game. Every Time I roll a rogue he single handedly clears the whole screen quicker then my entire party combined and stun/ prone locks them while doing it






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