Chanters need a redesign

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

The one change I'd make to Chanters is I'd give them charm, paralyze, fear, etc. immunity chants, just like priest immunity spells, so that a priest isn't so necessary on higher difficulties.

[dukeisaac]

In my latest run, I built a full custom party in which one of my frontline tanks was a chanter. While he started out slow, he eventually became a very durable and powerful complement to the party (thanks Boerer for the inspiration and of course, Dragon slashed). Apart maybe for a few tweaks, I like the design of chanters as is in POE/WM.

[Ninjamestari]

The thousand dollar question is: did it have actual advantages over just having a fighter tank?

[firkraag888]

The thousand dollar question is: did it have actual advantages over just having a fighter tank?

I never found this to be the case.

[dukeisaac]

The thousand dollar question is: did it have actual advantages over just having a fighter tank?

Good question. I'm pretty poor with numbers, so if you're looking for definitive, empirical proof, I'm not the person for that. That being said, there's no question in my mind that chants and summons are powerful, especially in the harder/longer fights. He probably doesn't DPS as much as a fighter would, but he proved his worth, namely with the buff/debuff/summons. I do have a bias for support characters though.

 

I play on POTD.

Edited April 4, 2017 by dukeisaac

[Ninjamestari]

HE proved his worth because you were relying on him, but I suspect you might still have been better of by having a fighter instead.

 

And dps is not the thing you're looking for in a character that is essentially supposed to tank, HP/DR/Deflection are far more important. The problem with summon-based tanking is that you can't summon anything right away. In essence, having a chanter tank sounds like a fun experiment, but not really a good choice otherwise. Every single class can act as a front liner if built properly, but none of them do it as well as a fighter.

 

EDIT: the question is: did the Chanter's other abilities really compensate for the lower HP and deflection?

EDIT EDIT: and in the absence of definite proof, give us your best estimate and reasoning based on your experience and comparing the situation to having a fighter as the frontliner.

EDIT EDIT EDIT: We already know that summons and chants are powerful, what we're trying to determine is how well they fit into a character that acts as the front-liner.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: Oh, and I love details ^^

 

**** that's a lot of edits xD

Edited April 4, 2017 by Ninjamestari

[scythesong]

Since we're talking about PotD, one important thing to consider is that in PotD difficulty enemies often like to ignore the bulky tanky character with lots of HP and will willingly risk disengagement attacks (gimped disengagement attacks, in the case of a pure defensive fighter) to chase down squishies. Essentially a pure "tank" character (ie, only has defensive talents and abilities, etc) is dead weight in PotD which is why people will usually have their frontline character branch out and take offensive abilities to punish or disable nasties or defensive/support abilities to assist allies.

Bottomline, your default tank/support/damage dealer philosophy goes out the window at this point. You're screwed if you try a "DPS is not the thing you're looking for" approach in PotD.

Apparently most Pillars of Eternity mobs are smarter than most of the bosses in WoW, at least until the game bugs.

 

Anyway the chanter, for some reason, is often high on enemy priority targetting list. I think it might something to do with the DR/endurance you have. I suppose this works out fine for a chanter tank in the long run, Chanters have support skills (see phrases - even something as simple as the party-wide movespeed phrase can be very effective in early game), crowd control skills (see invocations), nukes (early game summons like the Phantom definitely count as a very powerful nuke) and can be very tough if you build one defensively (max Resolve, stack deflection, etc). Overall the synergy here revolves around improving the effectiveness of allies and controlling/killing enemies before they start doing significant damage to you.

The chanter tank is really more like a pointman IMO, and instead of the traditional fighter/support/damage dealer synergy what we have here is a kind of  pointman/tools synergy, where you basically dangle a character in front of mobs just to get their attention (unlike a true tank) while you draw upon the skills of all your party members (actual class doesn't matter, what matters is what theybring to the table) to control and destroy mobs while strengthening your position.

 

For the record, its in similar Baldur's Gate-counterpart parities that classes like the bard truly shine.

 

As a kind of basic example, there's Binding Web (level 2 Wizard spell) abuse. Basically you cast Binding Web/s (which a wizard can cast out of combat), then dangle your chanter in front of mobs using phrases like Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe (movespeed and reflex defense boost) to lure mobs into it. When mobs try to come after you, you then proceed to start doing buff/debuff rotations while your offense casters hit them with your best nukes/disables (like the very basic Chill Fog, which synergizes with the chanter's "But Reny Daret's Ghost, He would not Rest"'s cold-resistant Phantom summon, and which is ALSO immune to  the stuck effect from Binding Web). The keyword for this particular setup is synergy - clean up then proceeds.

Quite efficient.

Like I said, I personally  prefer other setups since I don't like the "stock" chanter tank but you can use that tactic to beat a lot of early-mid game encounters.

 

That enough details for you?

Edited April 4, 2017 by scythesong

[rheingold]

Chanters get a lot of aggro from their damaging invocations. It's one reason why they make excellent tanks. I understand that not everyone likes a jack of all trades character, but personal preference doesn't mean that the character is weak.

[Boeroer]

You mean damaging chants, right?

 

Besides that: fighter tanks are totally useless for me. I find fighters to be better when they combine very high ACC, good damage and enough sturdyness. But that might be a matter of taste.

 

Chanter tanks on the other hand can deal massive AoE damage just by standing around. Dragon Thrashed gets cast every 4 seconds at lvl 16, doing around 80+80 damage each time they hit (if you have the correct attributes - and more if you crit)  - and it entirely stacks. You can't find any other damaging AoE ability that will cost no resources, reliably kills all mobs after a few phrases and even works when the character is withdrawn or even prone. At the same time the chanter can run around, attack with a weapon, use spell bindings or scrolls - all while not interfering with his chanting which does this enourmous damage.

 

Even if he would be worse at tanking than a full tank fighter or paladin he would still be way more useful. There's a reason why you can rel. easily solo PoTD with such a chanter but not with a fighter tank. I mean you can, but it's a real chore and involves heavy pulling and kiting - compared to a chanter "tank".

 

Saying that a fighter tank is more useful than a chanter tank only shows that one didn't experience the awesomeness of a chanter once he hits lvl 9. May sound harsh, but I can't really think of another reason.

 

For me, basic chanter mechanics don't need a change - at least not if you look at it from the PoTD perspective, which is slower than the other ones. And certainly not if you look at PoTD solo. What they could do however is to start with a few phrases - like ciphers start with a bit focus - and OBS could invent better phrases and invocations besides the few really useful ones. Most of the chanters phrases and invocations are lame and seem uninspired - that's a pity. Luckily there are a few really strong ones.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Boeroer

[PizzaSHARK]

Well I definitely agree that Chanters need a redesign. I'm currently playing with the IE mod and Kana gets phrases maxed when combat starts, though I think this is a little much. Quickfire what I think could work:

 

1)Change of the Chants/Invocations to where Chants are all 0-level with the same chant times and Invocations follow a path similar to Cipher Power. This would remove the long buildup from high level phrases and ensure that you aren't ditching low level phrases when they get phased out. And obviously room for more invocations is good.

2)Some phrases at the start of combat. Maybe half of max, this would allow quick building of phrases similar to how Ciphers operate with focus.

3)Chant mastery, which reduces the cost of a selected Invocation or allows 1 free cast.

 

For everything else I think Ganrich is right on target.

 

Simply giving scaling etc is some way of making sure low level summons remain useful.  Skeletons are wonderful in act 1 and still relevant in act 2 (the AI tends to like targeting them due to their low deflection and DR, and they're great for tying up enemies for a few seconds), but you basically have to retrain out of that skill by act 3 because they stop being useful even for tying up enemies; the phantom, at least, still retains its bull**** overpowered stun-on-hit and can actually do substantial damage with sneak attacks against enemies with low freeze DR.

 

I suppose an alternative might be to allow invocations to be used early, for lesser effect (and vice versa)?  Use the skeletons with 1 or 2 chants and you get 1 or 2 skeletons, respectively.  Use it with 4 or 5 chants, you get improved or dramatically improved skeletons (but still only up to 3.)  For single summons like the phantom, I'd probably just adjust its stats and abilities; reduced defenses and accuracy at 1 chant with no stun; gains stun at 2 chants but still has the stat penalties; gains stat bonuses or damage boost etc at higher amounts of chants.  Damage, buff, debuff, etc invocations would scale in a similar manner.

 

I think flexibility is the big thing that chanters are currently lacking in Pillars - as the OP mentions and has been discussed elsewhere, it's really only PotD or maybe Hard where fights actually last long enough for chanters to accrue a decent number of chants.

[rheingold]

You mean damaging chants, right?

Yup! Always get them confused. Really chanters pretty much make the best tanks, mainly because they can take all the defensive talents/abilities and still do their job. Paladins/fighters have better beginning stats, sure, but they have to compromise to a degree. Paladins still need some healing/buffing abilities and fighters still need some offensive power. Whereas all the chanter needs to do is stand there singing. And the damage chants are hardly the only goodies, the buffing chants are pretty good as well. Not to mention the invocations.

[Ninjamestari]

Since we're talking about PotD, one important thing to consider is that in PotD difficulty enemies often like to ignore the bulky tanky character with lots of HP and will willingly risk disengagement attacks (gimped disengagement attacks, in the case of a pure defensive fighter) to chase down squishies. Essentially a pure "tank" character (ie, only has defensive talents and abilities, etc) is dead weight in PotD which is why people will usually have their frontline character branch out and take offensive abilities to punish or disable nasties or defensive/support abilities to assist allies.

Bottomline, your default tank/support/damage dealer philosophy goes out the window at this point. You're screwed if you try a "DPS is not the thing you're looking for" approach in PotD.

Apparently most Pillars of Eternity mobs are smarter than most of the bosses in WoW, at least until the game bugs.

 

Anyway the chanter, for some reason, is often high on enemy priority targetting list. I think it might something to do with the DR/endurance you have. I suppose this works out fine for a chanter tank in the long run, Chanters have support skills (see phrases - even something as simple as the party-wide movespeed phrase can be very effective in early game), crowd control skills (see invocations), nukes (early game summons like the Phantom definitely count as a very powerful nuke) and can be very tough if you build one defensively (max Resolve, stack deflection, etc). Overall the synergy here revolves around improving the effectiveness of allies and controlling/killing enemies before they start doing significant damage to you.

The chanter tank is really more like a pointman IMO, and instead of the traditional fighter/support/damage dealer synergy what we have here is a kind of  pointman/tools synergy, where you basically dangle a character in front of mobs just to get their attention (unlike a true tank) while you draw upon the skills of all your party members (actual class doesn't matter, what matters is what theybring to the table) to control and destroy mobs while strengthening your position.

 

For the record, its in similar Baldur's Gate-counterpart parities that classes like the bard truly shine.

 

As a kind of basic example, there's Binding Web (level 2 Wizard spell) abuse. Basically you cast Binding Web/s (which a wizard can cast out of combat), then dangle your chanter in front of mobs using phrases like Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe (movespeed and reflex defense boost) to lure mobs into it. When mobs try to come after you, you then proceed to start doing buff/debuff rotations while your offense casters hit them with your best nukes/disables (like the very basic Chill Fog, which synergizes with the chanter's "But Reny Daret's Ghost, He would not Rest"'s cold-resistant Phantom summon, and which is ALSO immune to  the stuck effect from Binding Web). The keyword for this particular setup is synergy - clean up then proceeds.

Quite efficient.

Like I said, I personally  prefer other setups since I don't like the "stock" chanter tank but you can use that tactic to beat a lot of early-mid game encounters.

 

That enough details for you?

 

Definitely! So in essence you're not using it as a tank, but rather a bait, and have created a party that doesn't even require a tank. Definitely an interesting approach, and one that can't really be easily compared with a tank based setup. Damn, now I actually want to try that out. Have you tried/considered this approach with other classes besides chanters? How intensive is the micro-management required as opposed to having a strong front-line?

 

Thanks

 

Oh, there is one slight error in your assessment of fighter tanks that I have to correct: if you take the talent that adds knockdown to your disengagement attacks, even a low damage fighter is definitely not dead weight in most situations. Mostly you want to have on-hit properties on such a fighter rather than damage.

[dukeisaac]

Since we're talking about PotD, one important thing to consider is that in PotD difficulty enemies often like to ignore the bulky tanky character with lots of HP and will willingly risk disengagement attacks (gimped disengagement attacks, in the case of a pure defensive fighter) to chase down squishies. Essentially a pure "tank" character (ie, only has defensive talents and abilities, etc) is dead weight in PotD which is why people will usually have their frontline character branch out and take offensive abilities to punish or disable nasties or defensive/support abilities to assist allies.

Bottomline, your default tank/support/damage dealer philosophy goes out the window at this point. You're screwed if you try a "DPS is not the thing you're looking for" approach in PotD.

Apparently most Pillars of Eternity mobs are smarter than most of the bosses in WoW, at least until the game bugs.

 

Anyway the chanter, for some reason, is often high on enemy priority targetting list. I think it might something to do with the DR/endurance you have. I suppose this works out fine for a chanter tank in the long run, Chanters have support skills (see phrases - even something as simple as the party-wide movespeed phrase can be very effective in early game), crowd control skills (see invocations), nukes (early game summons like the Phantom definitely count as a very powerful nuke) and can be very tough if you build one defensively (max Resolve, stack deflection, etc). Overall the synergy here revolves around improving the effectiveness of allies and controlling/killing enemies before they start doing significant damage to you.

The chanter tank is really more like a pointman IMO, and instead of the traditional fighter/support/damage dealer synergy what we have here is a kind of  pointman/tools synergy, where you basically dangle a character in front of mobs just to get their attention (unlike a true tank) while you draw upon the skills of all your party members (actual class doesn't matter, what matters is what theybring to the table) to control and destroy mobs while strengthening your position.

 

For the record, its in similar Baldur's Gate-counterpart parities that classes like the bard truly shine.

 

As a kind of basic example, there's Binding Web (level 2 Wizard spell) abuse. Basically you cast Binding Web/s (which a wizard can cast out of combat), then dangle your chanter in front of mobs using phrases like Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe (movespeed and reflex defense boost) to lure mobs into it. When mobs try to come after you, you then proceed to start doing buff/debuff rotations while your offense casters hit them with your best nukes/disables (like the very basic Chill Fog, which synergizes with the chanter's "But Reny Daret's Ghost, He would not Rest"'s cold-resistant Phantom summon, and which is ALSO immune to  the stuck effect from Binding Web). The keyword for this particular setup is synergy - clean up then proceeds.

Quite efficient.

Like I said, I personally  prefer other setups since I don't like the "stock" chanter tank but you can use that tactic to beat a lot of early-mid game encounters.

 

That enough details for you?

I couldn't have said it better. To be fair though,  I wasn't consciously aware of all those synergies (which is one thing I really love of POE, man, the possibilities).

[scythesong]

For me, basic chanter mechanics don't need a change - at least not if you look at it from the PoTD perspective, which is slower than the other ones. And certainly not if you look at PoTD solo. What they could do however is to start with a few phrases - like ciphers start with a bit focus - and OBS could invent better phrases and invocations besides the few really useful ones. Most of the chanters phrases and invocations are lame and seem uninspired - that's a pity. Luckily there are a few really strong ones.

I still think better combat mechanics takes more priority. I mean, if my chanter can execute AoE swings with his melee attacks and perform other combat maneuvers from taking weapon talent feats (instead of the dull passive/modal stat growth we have atm) then combat can be more engaging and you have a lot more options even while you wait for invocations.

 

Basically, if action games are going to steal game mechanics from strategy games, then we might as well return the favor - the poster above was correct in the sense that Bioware was in the unique position to make action games amazing thanks to their strategy RPG background, so why can't we do the same for strategy RPGs? Action games pretty much specialize in making things more engaging.

We're not trying to make another DA:2, but you have got to admit that even BG1 -> BG2 had some modifications that could be considered action-gamey (faster game speeds, dozens more character-defining active abilities from kits, HLAs, etc).

 

Anyway, such an improvement would also make PoR warrior classes a lot more interesting.

 

As an example, imagine a talent like this: (this is all off the top of my head, so please excuse the "meh" specific details)

Weapon Focus - One-handed (normal sized? need a better designation) Slashing Weapons: when wielding specific weapons your weapon swings are now able to hit max 3 targets in a 160 degree arc in front of you (up from max 2 targets in a 90 degree arc without the feat). You also gain the abilities Flourish at 2nd level, Riposte at 6th level and Triple Strike at 12 level.

Flourish (active) - 20% chance to convert a normal hit into a critical hit - usable 3x per encounter, additional 1 use every 6 levels

Riposte (passive) - 15% chance to convert incoming melee hit into a graze and and automatically perform a stunning counterattack (literally, and enemy must be within weapon range, cancels out all other actions except other weapon maneuvers). Can only be used once every 6 seconds (scales with Dex? like I said, details).

Triple Strike - on weapon swing, 10% chance to perform a special combat maneuver where the character attacks two additional times in quick succession

 

If I had talents like that on my chanter I really wouldn't care if phrases needed work (seriously they do of course, but I simply wouldn't care as much... lots of other people likely wouldn't either).

Also the game would likely be a lot more fun for players who love non-Vancian caster classes, though the Cipher would require readjustments.

Edited April 4, 2017 by scythesong

[Ninjamestari]

I wouldn't mind the cipher getting a complete overhaul anyway. What you're proposing is something I'd definitely like to see in the game, although I might go around creating a bit more elaborate system for it instead of just having a few distinct combat maneuvers. Perhaps in melee you want to build up momentum for your attacks, juggling between maneuvers that utilize or sacrifice the momentum you've been able to build and maneuvers that build or maintain the momentum of your swings. This would help create the base-line for the melee variants of any class, and giving more options for building around concepts such as the arcane warrior.

[rheingold]

I'm not sure I want pillars copying bioware's dragon age series. And definitely no copying action games please. There are plenty of those around already for those who need their fix.... pillars doesn't need to be one of them.

[PizzaSHARK]

 

Since we're talking about PotD, one important thing to consider is that in PotD difficulty enemies often like to ignore the bulky tanky character with lots of HP and will willingly risk disengagement attacks (gimped disengagement attacks, in the case of a pure defensive fighter) to chase down squishies. Essentially a pure "tank" character (ie, only has defensive talents and abilities, etc) is dead weight in PotD which is why people will usually have their frontline character branch out and take offensive abilities to punish or disable nasties or defensive/support abilities to assist allies.

Bottomline, your default tank/support/damage dealer philosophy goes out the window at this point. You're screwed if you try a "DPS is not the thing you're looking for" approach in PotD.

Apparently most Pillars of Eternity mobs are smarter than most of the bosses in WoW, at least until the game bugs.

 

Anyway the chanter, for some reason, is often high on enemy priority targetting list. I think it might something to do with the DR/endurance you have. I suppose this works out fine for a chanter tank in the long run, Chanters have support skills (see phrases - even something as simple as the party-wide movespeed phrase can be very effective in early game), crowd control skills (see invocations), nukes (early game summons like the Phantom definitely count as a very powerful nuke) and can be very tough if you build one defensively (max Resolve, stack deflection, etc). Overall the synergy here revolves around improving the effectiveness of allies and controlling/killing enemies before they start doing significant damage to you.

The chanter tank is really more like a pointman IMO, and instead of the traditional fighter/support/damage dealer synergy what we have here is a kind of  pointman/tools synergy, where you basically dangle a character in front of mobs just to get their attention (unlike a true tank) while you draw upon the skills of all your party members (actual class doesn't matter, what matters is what theybring to the table) to control and destroy mobs while strengthening your position.

 

For the record, its in similar Baldur's Gate-counterpart parities that classes like the bard truly shine.

 

As a kind of basic example, there's Binding Web (level 2 Wizard spell) abuse. Basically you cast Binding Web/s (which a wizard can cast out of combat), then dangle your chanter in front of mobs using phrases like Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe (movespeed and reflex defense boost) to lure mobs into it. When mobs try to come after you, you then proceed to start doing buff/debuff rotations while your offense casters hit them with your best nukes/disables (like the very basic Chill Fog, which synergizes with the chanter's "But Reny Daret's Ghost, He would not Rest"'s cold-resistant Phantom summon, and which is ALSO immune to  the stuck effect from Binding Web). The keyword for this particular setup is synergy - clean up then proceeds.

Quite efficient.

Like I said, I personally  prefer other setups since I don't like the "stock" chanter tank but you can use that tactic to beat a lot of early-mid game encounters.

 

That enough details for you?

 

Definitely! So in essence you're not using it as a tank, but rather a bait, and have created a party that doesn't even require a tank. Definitely an interesting approach, and one that can't really be easily compared with a tank based setup. Damn, now I actually want to try that out. Have you tried/considered this approach with other classes besides chanters? How intensive is the micro-management required as opposed to having a strong front-line?

 

Thanks

 

Oh, there is one slight error in your assessment of fighter tanks that I have to correct: if you take the talent that adds knockdown to your disengagement attacks, even a low damage fighter is definitely not dead weight in most situations. Mostly you want to have on-hit properties on such a fighter rather than damage.

 

I use Kana as my party's tank.  As mentioned elsewhere, chanters honestly don't lose much by taking nothing but defense/utility feats.  My build typically works out to be something like Veteran's Recovery, Sword and Shield Style, Hold the Line, and then typically feats that boost Fortitude and Will saves as well as the feat which gives a bonus to saves against Prone and other hard control effects; I typically include a Paladin, so I don't usually worry much about Charm effects (since the Paladin will have extremely high defense against those effects and I frequently take the feat that lets them slap someone out of Charm effects.)  You can use pretty much any weapon you'd like... since there aren't really any melee soulbound items for Chanters, I tend to not bother with the weapon focus feats.  Shatterstar is great to give you three engagement slots, Hearth Harvest gives you the +5 Def from hatchets plus tons of bonuses, etc.

 

With Overbearing Guard being so good, it feels criminal not to make Fighters damage oriented.  I usually build Eder along the lines of Two Weapon Style, Confident Aim, Ruffian focus, Ruffian specialization, Overbearing Guard, Ruffian mastery, etc.  Open with a pistol or blunderbuss shot, proceed to mulch things with your choice of weapons (usually a saber and either a club or stiletto.)  Probably even better with a two-handed weapon (I'd probably go Soldier focus and use Tidefall for that early superb weapon), but I tend to put my Paladin on the front lines with a two-hander.  You'll want to pick up Hold the Line at some point to give you more chance to get Disengagement attacks.

[scythesong]

I'm not sure I want pillars copying bioware's dragon age series. And definitely no copying action games please. There are plenty of those around already for those who need their fix.... pillars doesn't need to be one of them.

There's a difference between using elements form action games to make your game better and actually turning a strategy game into an action game.

 

As I already pointed out, the change from Baldur's Gate 1 to Baldur's Gate 2 (or BG1 to the Icewind Dale series, if you want to go there) is proof that using elements from action games works. You'd need to be a die-hard fan of the BG1's old mechanics to disagree.

BG2's combat system was much more streamlined:

-combat and the exchange of blows was faster, for example, which gave you that feeling of urgency, as compared to the rather slow approach of BG1 (and admittedly, PoE)

-the combat screen was cleaner and more intuitive - a lot of the extra clutter from BG1 was removed, like too much unnecessary smoke/sparkles from spell effects, while the TAB key for displaying units stats during combat became more functional which prevented the interface from interfering with immersion. Also, weapon swings and certain other key combat actions became more pronounced unlike the jerk-jab attack swing motions of BG1

-the game gave you actual audio AND visual clues for spells - just about each spell school used a unique casting audio (like if you've played Baldur's Gate 2 then whenever you heard THIS your brain probably went into overdrive because you're expecting an Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting or a Finger of Death - that's the Necromancy spell audio cue)

-spells of a particular type used specific effects (like how demon summoning spells cause that circular gate of bones special animation to appear just before the demon itself materializes - which in player terms can mean anything from "Sunfire incoming, and someone cast Protecftion from Evil 10`" to "OH SH--").

 

Do you know what kind of games specialize and rely on using visual/audio cues to guide their players? Action games.

 

I'm pretty sure most of us don't want another Dragon Age: Origins -> Dragon Age 2, but it would be foolish to completely discount the contribution of action games when the very game we aspire to tells us otherwise.

Edited April 6, 2017 by scythesong

[Hound]

I know I am late to the game with suggestions but I would like to add that it would be great if chanters could gain new chants by reading in game books and parchments and then paying some price to memorize them. Basically a system like the wizard class that copies spells, chanters would copy folk lore and religious text to form inspiration for chants.

[Wormerine]

I know I am late to the game with suggestions but I would like to add that it would be great if chanters could gain new chants by reading in game books and parchments and then paying some price to memorize them. Basically a system like the wizard class that copies spells, chanters would copy folk lore and religious text to form inspiration for chants.

I really like idea. It fits thematically. The only thing to consider against it is that your chanter may that be ver limited by what he finds. There might be a way to buy those though.

[GuyNice]

 

I know I am late to the game with suggestions but I would like to add that it would be great if chanters could gain new chants by reading in game books and parchments and then paying some price to memorize them. Basically a system like the wizard class that copies spells, chanters would copy folk lore and religious text to form inspiration for chants.

I really like idea. It fits thematically. The only thing to consider against it is that your chanter may that be ver limited by what he finds. There might be a way to buy those though.

 

I also like this idea. It could work exactly like Wizard spells - you pick some on level up, and find others from books (instead of grimoires). Or perhaps instead it could modify/buff phrases you already know - especially lower level ones, to keep them competitive with higher level chants (since IIRC in Deadfire chants will no longer be tiered based on duration).

 

Could even add a few unique chants tied to powerful enemies, like the unique spells found in Cragholdt.

Edited August 1, 2017 by GuyNice

[injurai]

I concur, fantastic idea.

[Hound]

I would like to point out that the PoE game designers have already placed these book into the game and all they really need to do is cut and paste the programming that governs the mechanic for wizards copying scrolls to these books. I would like to see chants based on themes involving the gods or qualities of legendary monsters, battles or events. You can have everything from ghost stories and romance stories to rousing battle hymns about ancient wars. All of this is very possible because the books have already been made and it would give a player a reason to collect volumes and store them say in Cad Nua's Library or stash for their chanter party members. If the developers are concerned about the expense in adding to the system and the labor hours needed I would imagine some of the members of this very forum would gladly submit their own PoE inspired lore to a thread in order to enjoy adding to this great game!

[injurai]

Hmmm... I'd be careful saying that because of elements are already in game that it is a simple step to add on the next logical component. If such a system was to be implemented, there would be a much more robust investigation into it's mechanics as they pertain holistically to pillars.

 

You're also vastly underestimating the involvement in implementation.