List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

[SaruNi]

 

The "cannibalistic mutiny" aspect makes me think it could be related to Frenzy

 

 

 

For my part, I doubt that the subclass will involve much by way of literal corpse eating since it could require unique animations (which none of the other subclasses particularly seem to entail at this point) 

 

What about Ghost Heart?

[smjjames]

 

 

The "cannibalistic mutiny" aspect makes me think it could be related to Frenzy

 

 

 

For my part, I doubt that the subclass will involve much by way of literal corpse eating since it could require unique animations (which none of the other subclasses particularly seem to entail at this point) 

 

What about Ghost Heart?

 

 

Theres nothing about that one that implies the usage of corpses.

[blotter]

What about Ghost Heart?

 

Possibly, but not necessarily. If you're referring to their companions, I suspect they'll just be using ghostly forms of standard animals and the animation for calling them wouldn't really have to differ from the standard animation for using summoning invocations or items.

 

 

 

Theres nothing about that one that implies the usage of corpses.

 

I'm pretty sure he brought them up in relation to other subclass animation requirements.

 

(Edit: Thinking about it further, though, I'm probably overemphasizing the deterrent effect of subclass-specific animation requirements. We know that priests will have certain spells available/prohibited based on their god, and if those spells are unique, then it follows that they may well have their own unique animations and effects associated with them.)

Edited May 31, 2017 by blotter

[MortyTheGobbo]

So, we've got a couple more names. We knew Soul Blade for Cipher, I believe, but Illusionist, Evoker and Ascendant are new. The two wizard subclasses evoke the D&D schools of magic, but I wonder what Ascendant does. I would guess it focuses on self-buffs.

[smjjames]

Those are multiclass combos, not subclasses, which are two different things. No wait, I misunderstood.

 

I get illusionist for wizard, but I'm not sure what evoker would entail as far as the schools of magic in DnD go.

 

Maybe ascendant is specialized in ranged, like how soul blade would be specialized in melee. It'd make sense to have a ranged subclass since the current cipher is capable of both.

Edited May 31, 2017 by smjjames

[SaruNi]

Those are multiclass combos, not subclasses, which are two different things. No wait, I misunderstood.

 

I get illusionist for wizard, but I'm not sure what evoker would entail as far as the schools of magic in DnD go.

 

Maybe ascendant is specialized in ranged, like how soul blade would be specialized in melee. It'd make sense to have a ranged subclass since the current cipher is capable of both.

 

Is there any other RPG archetype for "Evoker" aside from (A)D&D? 

 

In AD&D: "Evocation: Spells that manipulate energy or create something from nothing. An evocation specialist is called an evoker."

 

AD&D evocation spells: Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Sunbeam... Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice... Ice Storm, Elemental Storm, Earthquake, Meteor Swarm... Darkness, Chaos Orb.... Eldritch Blade

 

However, Evocation is distinct from Conjuration. So "elemental" forces like heat / cold / electricity / light / kinetic force count as "Evocation" but non-elemental objects/entities like Wall of Thorns are "Conjuration"....   

 

In contrast, according to Wikipedia, "Evocation is the act of calling upon or summoning a spirit, demon, god or other supernatural agent, in the Western mystery tradition." We had a few wizard summoning spells in PoE 1 + White March. Though the concept of "calling upon a spirit/demon/god/supernatural agent" seems a little more interesting than a generic wizard summoner, since we've already got Chanter summoner.... 

 

"Ascendant" is evocative of becoming closer to being a spiritual or mystical being, becoming less dependent on the physical realm and more powerful in-yourself. So perhaps they get reduced weapon damage / reduced soul whip but increased max Focus and maybe non-weapon-based Focus regeneration.

Edited May 31, 2017 by SaruNi

[blotter]

I was hoping for a necromancer, since we've already heard about them in-game a few times and it'd be a chance to further differentiate them from animancers. But there's still the third wizard subclass to go, I guess.

[injurai]

So, we've got a couple more names. We knew Soul Blade for Cipher, I believe, but Illusionist, Evoker and Ascendant are new. The two wizard subclasses evoke the D&D schools of magic, but I wonder what Ascendant does. I would guess it focuses on self-buffs.

 

Josh is cheeky with these reveals. Almost could have passed over it.

[SaruNi]

I was hoping for a necromancer, since we've already heard about them in-game a few times and it'd be a chance to further differentiate them from animancers. But there's still the third wizard subclass to go, I guess.

 

Yeah. If Evoker is meant in the non-D&D sense (of evoking spirits/demons/gods), I'd prefer a Necromancer. 

 

If it's meant in the extremely idiosyncratic D&D sense... the relative weakness of elemental / DD wizard spells would make a nuking subclass understandable. Some people will want their old fireball / nuke mages.

 

I like Illusionists, but if the two obvious subclasses are Nuker (Evoker) and Necromancer, I'd like at least one to be something relatively unique and creative.

[injurai]

Should the necromancer go to the wizard or the cipher? Seems like it should be cipher to me.

[SaruNi]

Should the necromancer go to the wizard or the cipher? Seems like it should be cipher to me.

 

As blotter mentioned, Necromancer is different from Animancer. Animancer could be Cipher, Wizard, or Rogue. But all the Necromancy-like abilities in PoE 1 are Wizard spells or Chanter invocations. (Taking control of someone else's body when they're still alive isn't Necromancy---Necro = death / the dead / corpses.)

 

Could even have three animancy-related subclasses:

- Rogue for the mechanical / engineering aspect

- Wizard for necromancy (Concelhaut, necromancer and animancer)

- Cipher (Galvino)

[blotter]

 

 

Should the necromancer go to the wizard or the cipher? Seems like it should be cipher to me.

 

If you're going for consistency, then they've already made the decision. Helig of Thein was identified as a necromancer in addition to being an animancer, and he is (or was, if you killed him) a wizard. Granted, it could also be the case that necromancy refers to any magical/supernatural means of tampering with life and death aside from the use of artifacts, technology, and/or environmental phenomena such as biawacs (which is where animancy comes in), making it possible for necromancers to be druids, chanters, ciphers, priests, or whatever else. If so, it's probably best represented by particular spells/talents rather than a subclass.

[smjjames]

Should the necromancer go to the wizard or the cipher? Seems like it should be cipher to me.

 

It's already been linked to the wizard though, partially in PoE1 by at least one animancer turned necromancer and the fact that necromancery is connected to magic. And in the White March expansion, it's linked by two of Concelhauts apprentices and Concelhaut himself.

 

edit: Ninja'd somewhat.

 

Also, DeadFire is supposed to have much less focus on animancy/necromancy, or at least it won't be THE major focus.

[injurai]

 

Should the necromancer go to the wizard or the cipher? Seems like it should be cipher to me.

 

It's already been linked to the wizard though, partially in PoE1 by at least one animancer turned necromancer and the fact that necromancery is connected to magic. And in the White March expansion, it's linked by two of Concelhauts apprentices and Concelhaut himself.

 

edit: Ninja'd somewhat.

 

Also, DeadFire is supposed to have much less focus on animancy/necromancy, or at least it won't be THE major focus.

 

 

It's supposed to be more focused on the artificial gods and their reawakening if I remember correctly.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I suspect that Evoker will focus on the AoE blasting side of wizard. The game does still have strong D&D roots, so the name has quite clear connotations.

[MaxQuest]

So it is:

 

Wizard:

1. Illusionist

2. Evoker

3. Sorcerer (?) (edit: probably just used as example by the questioner)

 

Cipher:

1. Soul Blade

2. Ascendant 

3. ? (should be something cc-oriented)

 

I would expect something like:

- Ascendant - being focused on attributes manipulation, specifically siphoning stats/defenses and increasing his own, via Psychovampiric Shield, Borrowed Instinct and the like.

- Illusionist - master of confusion, distraction, and creator of mental phantasms / decoy phantoms.

- Evoker - if Sorcerer is about high elemental damage; Evoker probably would be more about summoning weapons and barriers (e.g. Llengrath and Flame shields); also missiles, kalakoth's rake, stuff like that.

Edited June 1, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

It would seem that "Going Between" could be a good example of the special powers an Ascendant might have. It's description and all sound so "ascendantish".

 

But wait - I totally missed (or forgot) that there is a wizard's subclass named "Sorcerer". What was it all about again?

 

Evoker also sounds more like a summoning specialist to me. That's cool with me because I really like the summoned weapons in PoE1.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Boeroer

[MortyTheGobbo]

Yeah, I was also unaware of a sorcerer subclass.

[MaxQuest]

But wait - I totally missed (or forgot) that there is a wizard's subclass named "Sorcerer". What was it all about again?

The first time I've seen it mentioned, was via MortyTheGobbo's link to this tumblr post.

 

Although now, that I am re-reading it, "Sorcerer" term was used by the questioner, not Josh himself.

 

P.S. Stumbled upon his article on balancing. Interesting read, especially about player feedback.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I think it's just an off-the-cuff example the questioner used, yes.

 

I've also seen the balance article. I need to save it for the next time someone goes on about balance not mattering in a single-player game (the Dragon Age fanbase is very prone to that).

Edited June 1, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[MaxQuest]

I think it's just an off-the-cuff example the questioner used, yes.

Perhaps you are right. It would make sense to use real names through (we already had 7 disclosed) in order to avoid confusion.

 

I've also seen the balance article. I need to save it for the next time someone goes on about balance not mattering in a single-player game (the Dragon Age fanbase is very prone to that)

Agreed. I find balance to be super important to me. I always try to optimize stuff, and often end up picking mostly optimal options. This means there are less options to chose from if something proves to be not viable enough. And this limits replayability.

 

P.S. As for DA:I, even through I wanted to have Varric in the party, he just never was near the power level of Sera. Which was either OP with Thousand Cuts, or a liability.

In the end I used the same party in all 3 runs: Blackwall + Casandra + Solar + Knight-Enchanter/Tempest/Rift-Mage.

Edited June 1, 2017 by MaxQuest

[JerekKruger]

I've also seen the balance article. I need to save it for the next time someone goes on about balance not mattering in a single-player game (the Dragon Age fanbase is very prone to that).

 

I completely agree with his point and yet was one of the most vocal critics of the reduction of the Unlabored Blade's proc rate, so I feel I should quickly point out that in my case my objection wasn't to the general notion of balancing things, it was that the tune in that case took one of a very small number of decent soulbound weapons and made it so it was no longer competitive with non-soulbound weapons. It just seemed such a shame to see another soulbound weapon consigned to the third rate pile when the idea of soulbound items is so cool.

 

I've been right on board with many down tunes Obsidian have made to, for example, Cipher's, and I think I was pretty vocal about how great the improvements to Barbarians have been (Rogues less so because I think they still need a bit more of a buff).

[MaxQuest]

It just seemed such a shame to see another soulbound weapon consigned to the third rate pile when the idea of soulbound items is so cool.

Yeap. Almost all (or indeed all?) soulbound weapons in this game have a 'support' and 'situational' vibe around them.

Without ability of being lashed and durganized they are usually not good enough from dps point-of-view. 

 

Unlabored Blade had potential to become one of dps weapons. And the calculations showed that it could be a beast in the hands of high MIG/DEX barbarian. 

Heh, first, I could not use it, because I had no barbarian in party/run. Then it wasn't proccing in 3.04. And then it was nerfed ))

 

Tbh, this dagger was a bit over-nerfed. 3% proc rate instantly make it useless to anyone except barbarian. While barb himself (if dps, not interrupt oriented) wants slower and harder-hitting weapons because of Barbaric Blow and HoF. Plus 3% is just unreliable. What's the point in petrifying the enemy group as a setup for Firebug volley if it might not even proc in this fight at all

[smjjames]

 

But wait - I totally missed (or forgot) that there is a wizard's subclass named "Sorcerer". What was it all about again?

The first time I've seen it mentioned, was via MortyTheGobbo's link to this tumblr post.

 

Although now, that I am re-reading it, "Sorcerer" term was used by the questioner, not Josh himself.

 

P.S. Stumbled upon his article on balancing. Interesting read, especially about player feedback.

 

 

While I agree it seems like an off-the-cuff example by the questioner, it seems logical that sorcerer could be a subclass name since it's already associated with wizard and I believe there's also a sorcerer class in DnD.

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

I think it's just an off-the-cuff example the questioner used, yes.

Perhaps you are right. It would make sense to use real names through (we already had 7 disclosed) in order to avoid confusion.

 

I've also seen the balance article. I need to save it for the next time someone goes on about balance not mattering in a single-player game (the Dragon Age fanbase is very prone to that)

Agreed. I find balance to be super important to me. I always try to optimize stuff, and often end up picking mostly optimal options. This means there are less options to chose from if something proves to be not viable enough. And this limits replayability.

 

P.S. As for DA:I, even through I wanted to have Varric in the party, he just never was near the power level of Sera. Which was either OP with Thousand Cuts, or a liability.

In the end I used the same party in all 3 runs: Blackwall + Casandra + Solar + Knight-Enchanter/Tempest/Rift-Mage.

 

 

People mostly use this argument when they complain mages aren't game-breakingly powerful in DA2 and DA:I like they were in DA:O. Because it's single-player, so mages should be allowed to nuke everything, right? Except if you want to play a non-mage without feeling like a fifth wheel, I guess.

 

And yes, Varric's and Sera's specializations are both pretty mismatched for being archers. My first playthrough was an assassin archer rogue. Which can melt enemies shockingly quickly.

 

 

 

But wait - I totally missed (or forgot) that there is a wizard's subclass named "Sorcerer". What was it all about again?

The first time I've seen it mentioned, was via MortyTheGobbo's link to this tumblr post.

 

Although now, that I am re-reading it, "Sorcerer" term was used by the questioner, not Josh himself.

 

P.S. Stumbled upon his article on balancing. Interesting read, especially about player feedback.

 

 

While I agree it seems like an off-the-cuff example by the questioner, it seems logical that sorcerer could be a subclass name since it's already associated with wizard and I believe there's also a sorcerer class in DnD.

 

 

There's a lot of names for magic users that could serve as potential subclasses for wizard. But there's only going to be three of those.

 

As far as soulbound weapons go, I'd say that Durgan Steel and X Lash being so good as to be practically required for a damage-focused character is a problem in itself.