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List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

Subclasses Sub-classes

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#521
Amentep

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Multi-classes do have names (although I do not believe all are known yet) and as far as I know multi-class is limited to 2 classes.


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#522
KaineParker

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Do multiclasses have names? Are we limited to 2 classes?


Yes on both counts.
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#523
rjshae

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Two classes seems like plenty, unless possibly you're solo-ing and want to use three.



#524
PugPug

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Two classes seems like plenty, unless possibly you're solo-ing and want to use three.

 

I agree. No triple combinations I want to try come to mind, and if there were any, you could play something very similar in style with only two.



#525
Gromnir

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our main concern with sub classing and multiclassing is balance issues. in d&d, pre 3e multiclassing were advantageous. the level lag were not particular onerous pre 3e.  unfortunate, particular with bab and the importance o' caster levels, effective halving potential 3e level advancement were crippling save for in the case o' prestige class advancement or 1-2 levels o' X and 18 levels o' Y builds.  subclassing were, particular in 2e, broken.  a handful o' kits were so ridiculous overpowered we typical simple said no to anybody wanting to use kits in our campaigns.  were more fair to say no to everybody than to explain why bladesingers and priest o' mystra were verboten.

 

am thinking obsidian is aware o' the systemic power level issues o' multiclassing.  systemic issues will be addressed, and taken as a whole, multiclassing will not be more or less beneficial than single class.

 

am also confident subclasses won't be ridiculous over-the-top powerful.  am recalling iwd2 development and how conscious were some o' the same developers now working on poe: deadfire regarding munchkin kits.

 

...

 

the thing is, game busting exploits don't happen so much at the systemic level in these kinda number based games. like it or not, there is gonna be synergies o' spells and feats and class abilities which make for unexpected and excessive op builds.  to be able to adequate anticipate all such game busting builds strikes us as an improbable task for standard qa monkeys.  is simple too many possible combinations for qa to test, particular as the testers ain't necessarily hardcore build craftsman.

 

am concerned, but will wait for the beta before making alarmist chicken little predictions.

 

HA! Good Fun!


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#526
injurai

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Are balancing issues really that big of a deal? Sometimes it's nice to have harder or easier builds, and with the amount of choice it seems relatively easy to tailor your build as you go.

 

I'm more worried about about bugs than anything.



#527
Boeroer

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We will have the beta. I will try out a lot of potentially OP stuff for myself and I guess a lot of players will do that, too. So maybe after the beta the most OP combos will get fixed.

Remember barb with Carnage + Jolting Toch from Azureith's Stiletto? Back in the days the spell strikings had no limit. Every crit triggered a Jolting Touch which got multiplied by Carnage. Enemy groups just got annihilated.

Ciphers' Draining Whip gave +3 (?) focus per hit, same with Carow Gholan. Devs forgot that blunderbusses do 6 hits with one shot, making it the no. 1 OP weapon for ciphers. Total focus overflow...

Similar stuff will happen in Deadfire I guess. :)

Edited by Boeroer, 08 September 2017 - 11:45 AM.

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#528
Gromnir

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Are balancing issues really that big of a deal?

yes.

 

is old and much-worn terrain, but josh has a pinned post at twitter/tumblr addressing sp game balance.

 

https://jesawyer.tum...layer-crpgs#_=_

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps is worth repeating, as we ain't stated in a while, but goal o' balance should be equivalent viability and usefulness as 'posed to equality o' power.  try and make everything equal power is doomed.  if a particular multi class is underpowered compared to a single class barbarian with sub class ______, we don't much care.  as long as the multi class feels equivalent useful during encounters, am satisfied. even so, can't have you-win builds w/o costs.  can't have classes/multi classes so weak that only the hardcore role-player or folks looking for a unique challenge will play such a build.  goat and underpowered is to be avoided.


Edited by Gromnir, 08 September 2017 - 02:00 PM.

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#529
injurai

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Well I agree with everything there, but I read your post more as a concern with regards to "multi-classing done by Josh Sawyer™" in general. I have no doubt the corner cases will cause great in-balances in both beta and early launch builds. Probably in early expansion builds as well. But when it's all said and done, I would welcome the final "soft imbalances" that the system would still allow. Which in my mind leave some fun variation to be had.



#530
MortyTheGobbo

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It's entirely fair to be concerned over multiclassing, I feel. It's a big minefield of balancing problems. Particularly if you add subclasses to the mix. We can hope and trust Obsidian to navigate it, but people with beta access need to be ready to try and break it in ungodly ways.

 

In 3e D&D, multiclassing is mostly an optimizer's thing. It can be very strong, but you need to optimize it. A casual player is more likely than not to create a weaksauce character who can't do anything particularly well. 4e has its hybrid thing, that I think has its own host of problems, and multiclass feats. Not sure about 5e. It has buffet-style multiclassing, but I think it also uses some scaling of key features, like in the last years of 3e.



#531
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I have no idea which e would be most similar to deadfire, but deadfire seems to be flying by it's own colors.



#532
Lampros

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Is there a good summary of overall changes or new features in PoE 2 anywhere? Thanks in advance!



#533
Wormerine

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Is there a good summary of overall changes or new features in PoE 2 anywhere? Thanks in advance!


Have a gander at Q&A streams at Obsidian's YouTube channel and Deadfire fig updates. That's pretty much the main sources. Sometimes something extra will slip through Josh's twitter or tumbler but those are mostly minor details or further explanations.

#534
PugPug

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Is there a good summary of overall changes or new features in PoE 2 anywhere? Thanks in advance!

Have a gander at Q&A streams at Obsidian's YouTube channel and Deadfire fig updates. That's pretty much the main sources. Sometimes something extra will slip through Josh's twitter or tumbler but those are mostly minor details or further explanations.
I believe the answer to his question is actually "no." :)

#535
Lephys

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I can't believe they didn't call the Fighter/Wizard a Sword-ceror. 6_u

 

Missed opportunity.


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#536
algroth

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I can't believe they didn't call the Fighter/Wizard a Sword-ceror. 6_u

 

Missed opportunity.

It was too sharp a pun.


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#537
Messier-31

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Cut it out, you guys.


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#538
MaxQuest

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Just posting bonuses and penalties of few subclasses, since it's easier for me to check them here, than open the video each time:

Hellwalker:
Bonus:
- begin combat with 1 Wound
- gain +1 Might for each Wound they have
Penalty:
- take 5% for each Wound they have

Nalpazka:
Bonus:
- all drug effects last 50% longer
- generate Wounds while receiving the benefits of drugs
Penalty:
- crash penalties from drugs cause the monk to be unable to receive healing
- degenerate Wounds while not benefiting from drugs

Shattered Pillar:
Bonus:
- gain Wounds by melee weapon damage inflicted
Penalty:
- cannot gain Wounds from damage received
- required threshold to gain wounds increased
- max Wound limit is decreased

 
Conjurer:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Conjuration spells
- Conjure Familiar - familiars provide a useful passive effect
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Evocation and Illusion schools
- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Conjuration school

Enchanter:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Enchantment spells
- Free Action - once per encounter when under effect of Hobble affliction, wizard can clear it and become immune to it for 10s
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools
- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

Evoker:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Evocation spells
- your evocation spells have a small (interesting how small??) chance to "echo", reapplying their damage and effects to their target again, immediately.
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Transmutation and Conjuration schools
- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Evocation school

Illusionist:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Illusion spells
- once per encounter, when first attacked, automatically gain the effects of the spell "Mirrored Images"
- when empowering spells there is a 30% chance of refunding the Empower point
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Conjuration and Enchanting schools
- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Illusion school

Transmuter:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells
- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Enchanting and Evocation schools
- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Transmutation school

Edited by MaxQuest, 21 September 2017 - 12:10 PM.

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#539
Lephys

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Cut it out, you guys.

 

Sorry. From now on, our focus shall be... razor sharp. 6_u



#540
Boeroer

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Transmuter:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells
- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools
- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

Now I really want to play a Transmuter/Helwalker... aka Friar Truck. I so hope that you can still use class abilities after casting Citzal's Martial Power like you can with Arcane Assault or Grimoire Slam in PoE1. 

 

And I really hope that your weapons don't transform into a generic, useless, two handed club. Would be nice if one could just use Transcendent Suffering (fists) instead...


Edited by Boeroer, 21 September 2017 - 09:29 AM.






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