Should the EU become the United States of Europe? What do you think?

[Agiel]

Of course for the EU certain projects have proceeded too quickly (the Euro) and others proved entirely inequitable to some of its most vulnerable members (the Dublin Convention) Nonetheless,  I think eventually the world will be politically united whether we like or not within the next, I don't know, 5000 years, the precise date doesn't really matter. It may blow itself up once or twice within that time, in which case many will find the unity we so craved in the mass grave, but it is going to happen. The process already began several centuries ago when we started seeing the first intercontinental empires in the 1500s and by the 19th century we were well on our way to a global, interconnected economy. In terms of physical travel time the whole world is smaller than France was 200 years ago, and of course in terms of communications the time it takes for this very post to be available to all the people of the world is even shorter than the walk to my kitchen. In that environment and in a time where rule of law, freedom of speech, and democracy are (largely) institutionalised in the developed world I hardly think we can go back to a time when German kids sang "Gott straffe England" and kids in the UK reciting "To rid the map of every trace Of Germany and of the Hun We must exterminate that race We must not leave a single one". Not without courting disaster:

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Agiel

[Gorth]

The EU in it's current form should be taken out back and disposed of... (proud "No!" voter for the Maastricht Treaty 92)

[Ben No.3]

The EU in it's current form should be taken out back and disposed of... (proud "No!" voter for the Maastricht Treaty 92)

Please give reasons...

[BruceVC]

 

The EU in it's current form should be taken out back and disposed of... (proud "No!" voter for the Maastricht Treaty 92)

Please give reasons...

 

Oh Gorthie wont be rude, he never makes critical comments and  makes reasonable points about the EU 

[Gorth]

 

The EU in it's current form should be taken out back and disposed of... (proud "No!" voter for the Maastricht Treaty 92)

Please give reasons...

 

 

Because the institution that people were asked to vote for membership of in 1973 were very different from today.  They were about common markets and cooperation.  The power grab by the politicians came later, when they decided that removing decision making from people and moving it to remote, irrelevant (for most people) politicians were a good idea. The EU in it's current form is nothing but a way to make it easier for corporate lobbyists to control the decision making process with as little supervision and oversight as possible.

[Namutree]

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/0405/6307082a.html

 

article is 1999, but is more relevant today.  'stead o' eu forming a US, britain would benefit economically from joining the existing USA... perhaps add poland as well... and maybe buy greenland from denmark.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Make Sharp_One an American? Do it. Keep Britain out though. 

Only when Donald wind the election.

 

Good call.

[Hiro Protagonist]

More people vote No than yes. Good job men.

[Ben No.3]

More people vote No than yes. Good job men.

More people vote No than yes. Bad job guys... Having a united Europe a decade ago could have avoided every major crisis since then (or at least make it far easier to deal with). I also find it amusing how so many voted against the EU as a whole... You guys do realise that the EU has assured peace since 50 years, which is, considering European history, quite an archivement?

 

But sure... You're right... Who the h3ll needs peace... The only important part is that you don't have to deal with refugees, right?

Edited October 8, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Hiro Protagonist]

More people vote No than yes. Bad job guys... Having a united Europe a decade ago could have avoided every major crisis since then (or at least make it far easier to deal with). I also find it amusing how so many voted against the EU as a whole... You guys do realise that the EU has assured peace since 50 years, which is, considering European history, quite an archivement?

 

But sure... You're right... Who the h3ll needs peace... The only important part is that you don't have to deal with refugees, right?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc9WAg2QZf8

[Malcador]

I can see a lot of use in the United States of Europe

[Azdeus]

Because the institution that people were asked to vote for membership of in 1973 were very different from today.  They were about common markets and cooperation.  The power grab by the politicians came later, when they decided that removing decision making from people and moving it to remote, irrelevant (for most people) politicians were a good idea. The EU in it's current form is nothing but a way to make it easier for corporate lobbyists to control the decision making process with as little supervision and oversight as possible.

Shieeeet, I think I developed a little bit of a crush on you now Gorth.

 

Without a doubt the biggest reason me and the people I know want out of the EU,

[HoonDing]

I support EU as in Eurasian Union. It's a sad necessity to stop the American Satan.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

More people vote No than yes. Good job men.

More people vote No than yes. Bad job guys... Having a united Europe a decade ago could have avoided every major crisis since then (or at least make it far easier to deal with). I also find it amusing how so many voted against the EU as a whole... You guys do realise that the EU has assured peace since 50 years, which is, considering European history, quite an archivement?

How exatly EU assured peace since 50 years? EU is not even half that old.

 

Also, peace my a**:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

Well... Since the 1960s there has not been a war between the EU members, and especially between Germany and France... Which is a long period considering our history. And while obviously there was war in Europe, there was no war between EU members. And that is very valuable considering how powerful those members are. Two world wars have so far come from Europe... Ready for number three? No? Well, at least to some extent the EU will stop World War III, and that is by making war between its members impossible.

 

But sure, you guys live on in your world where the EU is not related to inner European peace what so ever and is in fact totally unnecessary.

[Ben No.3]

 

Because the institution that people were asked to vote for membership of in 1973 were very different from today. They were about common markets and cooperation. The power grab by the politicians came later, when they decided that removing decision making from people and moving it to remote, irrelevant (for most people) politicians were a good idea. The EU in it's current form is nothing but a way to make it easier for corporate lobbyists to control the decision making process with as little supervision and oversight as possible.

Shieeeet, I think I developed a little bit of a crush on you now Gorth.

 

Without a doubt the biggest reason me and the people I know want out of the EU,

Yes the EU has problems! Yes we need to tackle them! But are you really so blind that you think going out will solve the problems? It is the worst option... Give it a few years and Britain will be gone from the international politics and to some extent economics. Going out is not really a option of you want to stay relevant as a country.

Are you really unable to see what the EU has done for you?

Edited October 9, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Ben No.3]

 

 

More people vote No than yes. Bad job guys... Having a united Europe a decade ago could have avoided every major crisis since then (or at least make it far easier to deal with). I also find it amusing how so many voted against the EU as a whole... You guys do realise that the EU has assured peace since 50 years, which is, considering European history, quite an archivement?

 

But sure... You're right... Who the h3ll needs peace... The only important part is that you don't have to deal with refugees, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc9WAg2QZf8

So I take it you disagree with me that the EU has in fact not assured peace between its members. That's fine, everyone has his opinion... Can you back your's up though? I'm pretty sure there was no major war inside of the EU... Do correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ben No.3]

I support EU as in Eurasian Union. It's a sad necessity to stop the American Satan.

The American Satan? While I do agree with you that America is far from being an ideal country, of all the big empires in history, it is probably still the best. Or can you think of any other major power throughout history that had such a developmet democratic system and human rights at the core of their country?

 

Again, I'm not saying the us is a great country, but in comparison to the other empires throughout history its probably the best.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Hiro Protagonist]

So I take it you disagree with me that the EU has in fact not assured peace between its members. That's fine, everyone has his opinion... Can you back your's up though? I'm pretty sure there was no major war inside of the EU... Do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

That's not what you said. Nice backtracking there.

[redneckdevil]

 

 

Because the institution that people were asked to vote for membership of in 1973 were very different from today. They were about common markets and cooperation. The power grab by the politicians came later, when they decided that removing decision making from people and moving it to remote, irrelevant (for most people) politicians were a good idea. The EU in it's current form is nothing but a way to make it easier for corporate lobbyists to control the decision making process with as little supervision and oversight as possible.

Shieeeet, I think I developed a little bit of a crush on you now Gorth.

 

Without a doubt the biggest reason me and the people I know want out of the EU,

Yes the EU has problems! Yes we need to tackle them! But are you really so blind that you think going out will solve the problems? It is the worst option... Give it a few years and Britain will be gone from the international politics and to some extent economics. Going out is not really a option of you want to stay relevant as a country.

Are you really unable to see what the EU has done for you?

That right there should already give u red flags. So why should Britain wanting and leaving the EU have the conclusion that they will be phase out of international politics and economics?

[Ben No.3]

 

 

So I take it you disagree with me that the EU has in fact not assured peace between its members. That's fine, everyone has his opinion... Can you back your's up though? I'm pretty sure there was no major war inside of the EU... Do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

That's not what you said. Nice backtracking there.

I assumed that people would be able to understand that I meant inside the EU since it is impossible for any organisation to assure peace outside of the organisation itself without being oppressive. Apparently I needed to be more explicit.

 

So, do you agree with me that the EU has been a big part of peacekeeping between its members? Yes or no?

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

Because the institution that people were asked to vote for membership of in 1973 were very different from today. They were about common markets and cooperation. The power grab by the politicians came later, when they decided that removing decision making from people and moving it to remote, irrelevant (for most people) politicians were a good idea. The EU in it's current form is nothing but a way to make it easier for corporate lobbyists to control the decision making process with as little supervision and oversight as possible.

Shieeeet, I think I developed a little bit of a crush on you now Gorth.

Without a doubt the biggest reason me and the people I know want out of the EU,

Yes the EU has problems! Yes we need to tackle them! But are you really so blind that you think going out will solve the problems? It is the worst option... Give it a few years and Britain will be gone from the international politics and to some extent economics. Going out is not really a option of you want to stay relevant as a country.

Are you really unable to see what the EU has done for you?

That right there should already give u red flags. So why should Britain wanting and leaving the EU have the conclusion that they will be phase out of international politics and economics?

Why did the britains want the Brexit? I honestly don't know, it just shows a lack of general education amongst the public (which is a government failure). People apparently don't understand what they are doing. I really don't see any advantage of Brexit that could possibly weigh up to the disadvantages.

[Hiro Protagonist]

So, do you agree with me that the EU has been a big part of peacekeeping between its members? Yes or no?

 

No.

 

You're suggesting it's more peaceful within the EU than say 15 years ago? I don't think so.

[Barothmuk]

 

 

 

Bruce alt?

 

 

Impressive that the EU managed to prevent war in Europe for 30 years before it even existed. Snark of course but it is disingenuous to suggest that it is the EU alone that has prevented France and Germany from tearing each others throats out.

[pmp10]

 

 

 

 

Because the institution that people were asked to vote for membership of in 1973 were very different from today. They were about common markets and cooperation. The power grab by the politicians came later, when they decided that removing decision making from people and moving it to remote, irrelevant (for most people) politicians were a good idea. The EU in it's current form is nothing but a way to make it easier for corporate lobbyists to control the decision making process with as little supervision and oversight as possible.

Shieeeet, I think I developed a little bit of a crush on you now Gorth.

Without a doubt the biggest reason me and the people I know want out of the EU,

Yes the EU has problems! Yes we need to tackle them! But are you really so blind that you think going out will solve the problems? It is the worst option... Give it a few years and Britain will be gone from the international politics and to some extent economics. Going out is not really a option of you want to stay relevant as a country.

Are you really unable to see what the EU has done for you?

That right there should already give u red flags. So why should Britain wanting and leaving the EU have the conclusion that they will be phase out of international politics and economics?

Why did the britains want the Brexit? I honestly don't know, it just shows a lack of general education amongst the public (which is a government failure). People apparently don't understand what they are doing. I really don't see any advantage of Brexit that could possibly weigh up to the disadvantages.

 

Most people understood perfectly what they were doing with Brexit.

Unrestricted movement of labor hurt working class and the poor economically so they voted out.

[Meshugger]

When people vote wrong in a democracy, it is because they are uneducated. It's like they need to be sent re-education camps, i mean schools, or something.

[Ben No.3]

 

So, do you agree with me that the EU has been a big part of peacekeeping between its members? Yes or no?

 

 

No.

 

You're suggesting it's more peaceful within the EU than say 15 years ago? I don't think so.

No I'm saying it's more peaceful BECAUSE of the EU than say, between 1914 and 1945.