What defines you as a citizen...what really matters?

[BruceVC]

Guys this is an excellent time for those of us who are prepared to be honest about what matters to us that defines as citizens of the countries ?

 

In other words lets say you live in the USA and feel that the independence  of the states from any Federal interference is paramount than say

 

"  I believe being American is about no Federal interference " 

 

If for example you live in Denmark you may say 

 

" I believe Danish people should accept more refugees " 

 

 

There is no right or wrong answer, this is your personal views on what matters to your view of a citizen

 

This exercise is about people understanding certain real or perhaps unnecessary views they have on the state of there country

 

Think about the answers carefully, you should be honest  

[213374U]

hookers and blow

[BruceVC]

hookers and blow

 

Be honest You will have some very interesting views that I wont try to predict ....there is no right or wrong 

[Malcador]

To be Canadian means being a passive aggressive ass.

[Guard Dog]

OK, I am formulating a serous answer but I have to go to work.

[Gorth]

To be Canadian means being a passive aggressive ass.

Eh?

 

 

It's been so long since I've been a citizen that I've forgotten that it's like.

[Leferd]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX1zIIMQg30

 

and certainly this...

 

[Gromnir]

we got dual citizenship, so the answer is more complex for us.  we will limit to US citizenship for the sake o' simplicity.... and then we won't actual answer your query.

 

we has traveled a fair bit.  been to most countries in europe, a few which no longer exist.  asia is familiar to us, though not so much the islamic nations.  have only twice been to the african continent.  

 

*shrug*

 

Americans is considered arrogant.  the "amerika, f*** yeah!" stuff is mostly myth.  look on this board alone and am thinking you can realize americans is quick to be critical o' the USA.  in our experience, americans is actual more critical o' their mother country than is the citizens o' almost any other western nation.  even so, we understand why Amercians seem arrogant.

 

individual americans, more than almost any other citizens we has met, believe they matter.  americans believe their opinions matter.  they believe they deserve respect for no other reason than they is walking and breathing. contrary to popular belief 'cross the globe, americans don't see self worth being tied to their american citizenship.  however, is fundamental to the american character that we have significance and power simple by existing. an american is not dissuaded 'cause few others share his beliefs. in fact, americans seem to take a kinda pride in being attacked or vilified for his/her beliefs.  revolutionary heroes and all that. most americans believe they is right... about everything.  we do seem arrogant.

 

'course this is what makes americans different.  being american means we believe we matter.  is no such thing as a lost or hopeless cause... or rather, it don't matter if a cause is lost or hopeless. americans is as likely (if not more likely) to fight for a hopeless cause.  the lessons o' brutal history and generations o' inherited ennui has taught the rest o' the world that individual efforts is, in the grand scheme, pointless.  being an american is different.  being an american means we know we matter.  americans don't think they is special 'cause they is american. myth.  the american character is inextricable tied to a sense o' self worth which is alien in most parts o' the world. 

 

I matter.  

 

not need an explanation or a reason. not need proof o' worth. water is wet. the sun is warm. americans matter.

 

I matter.

 

is what it means to be an american.

 

not exact answering your question, but...

 

HA! Good Fun! 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Gromnir

[kirottu]

Not be a "bruce".

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

being american means we believe we matter.  is no such thing as a lost or hopeless cause... or rather, it don't matter if a cause is lost or hopeless. americans is as likely (if not more likely) to fight for a hopeless cause.  the lessons o' brutal history and generations o' inherited ennui has taught the rest o' the world that individual efforts is, in the grand scheme, pointless.  being an american is different.  being an american means we know we matter.  americans don't think they is special 'cause they is american. myth.  the american character is inextricable tied to a sense o' self worth which is alien in most parts o' the world. 

 

I matter.  

 

not need an explanation or a reason. not need proof o' worth. water is wet. the sun is warm. americans matter.

 

I matter.

 

is what it means to be an american.

 

 

Interesting. In this vein, allow me to take a shot at explaining the Hungarian spirit - or, at least, borrow the words of someone better qualified than I am.

 

"Fura dolognak látszik talán, vereséget megünnepelni, de hát aki a győzelmét ünnepelhette volna itt most, a hatalmas ottomán világbirodalom, már nem volt meg. A tatároknak is nyomuk veszett, sőt időközben, szinte a szemünk láttára, a szívós Habsburg-császárságnak is. Megszoktuk hát, hogy egyedül ünnepelgessük vesztett nagy csatáinkat, melyeket túléltünk. Talán azt is megszoktuk, hogy a vereséget izgalmasabb, sűrűbb anyagból való és fontosabb dolognak tartsuk a győzelemnél - mindenesetre igazibb tulajdonunknak."

 

My terrible terrible attempt at translation:

 

"It may seem curious to celebrate defeat, but those who could've celebrated their victory now, the mighty Ottoman Empire, no longer existed. The Tatars disappeared as well; in the meantime, almost right before our eyes, even the tenacious Habsburg Empire did the same. So we've gotten used to being the only ones celebrating the great battles we lost, the ones we survived. Maybe we've even gotten used to thinking of defeat as something more interesting and important than victory, made of a thicker substance - or, at least, as something we own in a truer fashion."

Edited August 15, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

being american means we believe we matter.  is no such thing as a lost or hopeless cause... or rather, it don't matter if a cause is lost or hopeless. americans is as likely (if not more likely) to fight for a hopeless cause.  the lessons o' brutal history and generations o' inherited ennui has taught the rest o' the world that individual efforts is, in the grand scheme, pointless.  being an american is different.  being an american means we know we matter.  americans don't think they is special 'cause they is american. myth.  the american character is inextricable tied to a sense o' self worth which is alien in most parts o' the world. 

 

I matter.  

 

not need an explanation or a reason. not need proof o' worth. water is wet. the sun is warm. americans matter.

 

I matter.

 

is what it means to be an american.

 

 

Interesting. In this vein, allow me to take a shot at explaining the Hungarian spirit - or, at least, borrow the words of someone better qualified than I am.

 

"Fura dolognak látszik talán, vereséget megünnepelni, de hát aki a győzelmét ünnepelhette volna itt most, a hatalmas ottomán világbirodalom, már nem volt meg. A tatároknak is nyomuk veszett, sőt időközben, szinte a szemünk láttára, a szívós Habsburg-császárságnak is. Megszoktuk hát, hogy egyedül ünnepelgessük vesztett nagy csatáinkat, melyeket túléltünk. Talán azt is megszoktuk, hogy a vereséget izgalmasabb, sűrűbb anyagból való és fontosabb dolognak tartsuk a győzelemnél - mindenesetre igazibb tulajdonunknak."

 

My terrible terrible attempt at translation:

 

"It may seem curious to celebrate a defeat, but those who could've celebrated their victory now, the mighty Ottoman Empire, no longer existed. The Tatars disappeared as well; in the meantime, almost right before our eyes, even the tenacious Habsburg Empire did the same. So we've gotten used to being the only ones celebrating the great battles we lost, the ones we survived. Maybe we've even gotten used to thinking of defeat as something more interesting and important than victory, made of a thicker substance - or, at least, as something we own in a truer fashion."

 

I have to say your Hungarian is very good 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I have to say your Hungarian is very good 

Most people... tend to have a decent grasp on their mother tongue, you do realize that, right?

[BruceVC]

 

I have to say your Hungarian is very good 

Most people... tend to have a decent grasp on their mother tongue, you do realize that, right?

 

Not necessarily, I know many people who cant write English properly?

[Meshugger]

 

 

I have to say your Hungarian is very good 

Most people... tend to have a decent grasp on their mother tongue, you do realize that, right?

 

Not necessarily, I know many people who cant write English properly?

 

 

The key to understand how bad things truly are in South Africa.

 

 

 

As for citizenship, there has to be a stake in it. It's defines itself differently in different countries, but without anything in stake, there is no point of safeguarding it or defending it. If there is no point in defending it, then what is the point of enforcing it in the first place other than power of ruling over you? If the latter, then it will collapse on itself sooner or later.

 

That's why Alumni is right by trying to invoke the common expression of his fellow citizens.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I have to say your Hungarian is very good 

Most people... tend to have a decent grasp on their mother tongue, you do realize that, right?

 

Not necessarily, I know many people who cant write English properly?

 

 

The key to understand how bad things truly are in South Africa.

 

 

 

As for citizenship, there has to be a stake in it. It's defines itself differently in different countries, but without anything in stake, there is no point of safeguarding it or defending it. If there is no point in defending it, then what is the point of enforcing it in the first place other than power of ruling over you? If the latter, then it will collapse on itself sooner or later.

 

That's why Alumni is right by trying to invoke the common expression of his fellow citizens.

 

But do you guys consider yourselves a country? Most people think Finland is Sweden...which citizenship do you identify with?

[obyknven]

 

 

 

 

I have to say your Hungarian is very good 

Most people... tend to have a decent grasp on their mother tongue, you do realize that, right?

 

Not necessarily, I know many people who cant write English properly?

 

 

The key to understand how bad things truly are in South Africa.

 

 

 

As for citizenship, there has to be a stake in it. It's defines itself differently in different countries, but without anything in stake, there is no point of safeguarding it or defending it. If there is no point in defending it, then what is the point of enforcing it in the first place other than power of ruling over you? If the latter, then it will collapse on itself sooner or later.

 

That's why Alumni is right by trying to invoke the common expression of his fellow citizens.

 

But do you guys consider yourselves a country? Most people think Finland is Sweden...which citizenship do you identify with?

 

It's obvious.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

That's why Alumni is right by trying to invoke the common expression of his fellow citizens.

 

 

...The what now?

[kirottu]

Most people think Finland is Sweden.

Your trolling is getting more and more obvious. Are you okay? Maybe you should take a break. Play some games. It's important to take care of yourself.

[Chilloutman]

 

Most people think Finland is Sweden.

Your trolling is getting more and more obvious. Are you okay? Maybe you should take a break. Play some games. It's important to take care of yourself.

 

Bruce always paint himself as someone who knows how people in <insert random country last stripper he met come from> live and think, nothing new here

[BruceVC]

 

 

Most people think Finland is Sweden.

Your trolling is getting more and more obvious. Are you okay? Maybe you should take a break. Play some games. It's important to take care of yourself.

 

Bruce always paint himself as someone who knows how people in <insert random country last stripper he met come from> live and think, nothing new here

 

Correct, why should I not consider strippers from East European countries representative of there country? Thats sexist, a stripper from Czech is still Czech 

[BruceVC]

 

Most people think Finland is Sweden.

Your trolling is getting more and more obvious. Are you okay? Maybe you should take a break. Play some games. It's important to take care of yourself.

 

Geez...sorry for asking a question, someones in  a  good mood 

[Guard Dog]

I really liked Gromnir's answer. Americans, perhaps more than other nationalities, do have a sense of self value. We live in a country where the "rugged individualist" is still the ideal. Dependency, on government, on family, on anything is largely disdained for good or ill. We revere and respect self made people and aspire independence in both our social and private lives.

 

But while that might be an American trait it really misses what Bruce was asking; what does it mean to be a citizen? I think it means an acknowledgement of community. The people who live around you share a bond with you. A shared history, culture, language, as well as geographical proximity. Being a good citizen means acknowledging that bond. Being a good American citizen means not just acknowledging that bond but also the self value (meaning individual liberty) of those people. Respecting their rights, property, privacy, etc. And this includes a willingness to defend all of this as well. If I saw someone breaking into my neighbor's home I would defend his home from that person as vigorously as I would my own and expect that they would do the same.

 

I've mentioned before the US Civil War is one of my favorite subjects for study. One thing that I've always found remarkable was the willingness of the Confederate Soldier to fight. Most of the officers were in the US Army before the war and were professional soldiers who left to serve their native States. But the majority of the infantry (at first) was made up of volunteers. These men were farmers and tradesmen. They were not wealthy and did not own slaves. Slavery did not benefit them in any way. So what motivated them? I read the answer in a book, a true story about a Confederate soldier  called Jack Hinson's One Man War. In the book he recounts a conversation between a Union Captain and a Confederate soldier who had been captured at Knoxville. The Captain asked the soldier why he was fighting against his own countrymen. The soldier answered simply "Because you are here". That willingness to defend what is not exclusively yours, the homes, lives, and liberties of your community is what makes a "good" citizen IMO.

 

This shared bond is not iron. Far from it. It is the most tenuous of things and exists only so long as the self value and liberty of those who share it are respected by all who share it. The moment that is violated then there is no community. This sense of community should not be taken as an obligation to support one another. Only to defend one another. In the American example we expect you pull your own weight, support yourself. Not ask or demand we give you what we have. Yes there is some sharing to be expected but what is yours is yours and what is mine is mine. As Ayn Rand once wrote "I will die for you but I will not live for you"

 

Just my $.02

Edited August 16, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Wrath of Dagon]

As for citizenship, there has to be a stake in it. It's defines itself differently in different countries, but without anything in stake, there is no point of safeguarding it or defending it. If there is no point in defending it, then what is the point of enforcing it in the first place other than power of ruling over you? If the latter, then it will collapse on itself sooner or later.

It's hard to say what the meaning of American citizenship is when the government actively wages war on its own citizens and favors criminal aliens over citizens: http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourages-illegals-to-steal-social-security-numbers-for-taxes/#4c8555fe237a

 

The IRS actually has a policy not to tell a citizen that his social security number has been stolen to file fake tax returns.

[Guard Dog]

 

As for citizenship, there has to be a stake in it. It's defines itself differently in different countries, but without anything in stake, there is no point of safeguarding it or defending it. If there is no point in defending it, then what is the point of enforcing it in the first place other than power of ruling over you? If the latter, then it will collapse on itself sooner or later.

It's hard to say what the meaning of American citizenship is when the government actively wages war on its own citizens and favors criminal aliens over citizens: http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourages-illegals-to-steal-social-security-numbers-for-taxes/#4c8555fe237a

 

The IRS actually has a policy not to tell a citizen that his social security number has been stolen to file fake tax returns.

 

IMO the words "citizen" and "government" have very little association. The government demands what we owe them by force. Good citizenship is what we voluntarily offer  each other.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Wrath of Dagon]

That's not how it's supposed to work though.