Meshugger Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 As he's been saying in his book from the 80's, the point is to give hyperbole where the media cannot help themselves and giving him free coverage and manipulating the public perception. Right now he is instilling the words 'Obama', 'Hillary' and 'ISIS' into the public conciousness and here we are, talking about it. Thank you Bruce for following suit and spreading it accordingly. So are you saying its acceptable and normal for any politician to say what they want, promise what they want and publically attack anyone they want but the concept of political decorum is not a consideration? So in your analysis there is no such thing as reasonable or accurate political commentary? We must just accept endless hyperbole from the Trump campaign It's completely up to the media. For example, the guy had an 1 hour conference in Detroit highlighting his economic policies down to tax deduction for having your kids in kindergarden the other day but that went on pretty much unreported. If the media and the twitter-whores would've ignored what he says on social media or in real life and sticked to the issues and policies we might've had a completely different election. Your, or any other expert's, whimsical musings about what is acceptable or decorum has no influence what so ever. Your argument is inconsistent and doesn't reflect the reality of how Trump expects the media to respond His economic policies were discussed by many commentators, the perceived outcome of what he says he can achieve through some of his ideas like the tax breaks he plans to implement are subjective Many economists have many questions about the sustainability of Trumps economic views, look at Moodys views http://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2016/07/29/moodys-where-trumps-economic-policies-might-spark-recession-clintons-could-boost-gdp-and-lower-unemployment/#dc57cf1234808 https://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/2016-06-17-Trumps-Economic-Policies.pdf But if Trump wants the media to focus just on his economic views which should be relevant than he should stop saying things that cause the media to focus on his divisive comments That gets zero coverage compared to his bantz. The media reports and it's completely in their hands on how much and in what way they report and Trump is using that against them as people love bantz, bantz give ratings and ratings give money. So we're back to where we started, he is admittingly playing them like a fiddle and the incompetent rage of 'experts' only fuel the exposure for more. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Seems lack of coverage of Trump's policies would work against him not for. Then again, all his bull**** works with meshbacks 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Seems lack of coverage of Trump's policies would work against him not for. Then again, all his bull**** works with meshbacks Yes, this is correct and logical. You would think at sometime Trump would want the media to discuss his realistic policies ....the ones that matter like economic ones Yet he keeps hijacking his own narrative "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 @Leferd: I got that from Wikipedia, which is of course only as accurate as the guy you wrote the article. The only point I was trying to make is August is way too soon to pop the champagne corks. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Seems lack of coverage of Trump's policies would work against him not for. Then again, all his bull**** works with meshbacks Yes, this is correct and logical. You would think at sometime Trump would want the media to discuss his realistic policies ....the ones that matter like economic ones Yet he keeps hijacking his own narrative No you were not listening. He gave a serious and well thought out speech on his economic policy in Detroit last week and the media ignored it altogether. They covered Clinton's almost verbatim. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Edited August 13, 2016 by Guard Dog 5 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Seems lack of coverage of Trump's policies would work against him not for. Then again, all his bull**** works with meshbacks Yes, this is correct and logical. You would think at sometime Trump would want the media to discuss his realistic policies ....the ones that matter like economic ones Yet he keeps hijacking his own narrative No you were not listening. He gave a serious and well thought out speech on his economic policy in Detroit last week and the media ignored it altogether. They covered Clinton's almost verbatim. No thats not true as I mentioned The media did discuss it, I watched several hours of political and economic commentary. Thats why I posted the views of Moodys analysts like Mark Zandi. Here is an updated link, the video interview with Wolf Blitzer is particularly relevant http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/08/zandi_on_trump_speech_nafta_was_good_for_economy_in_general_dark_irony_if_we_step_back_from_trade.html "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneckdevil Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Seems lack of coverage of Trump's policies would work against him not for. Then again, all his bull**** works with meshbacks Yes, this is correct and logical. You would think at sometime Trump would want the media to discuss his realistic policies ....the ones that matter like economic ones Yet he keeps hijacking his own narrative No you were not listening. He gave a serious and well thought out speech on his economic policy in Detroit last week and the media ignored it altogether. They covered Clinton's almost verbatim. No thats not true as I mentioned The media did discuss it, I watched several hours of political and economic commentary. Thats why I posted the views of Moodys analysts like Mark Zandi. Here is an updated link, the video interview with Wolf Blitzer is particularly relevant http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/08/zandi_on_trump_speech_nafta_was_good_for_economy_in_general_dark_irony_if_we_step_back_from_trade.html Smh at the person in that article. "Haven't done the research" and "better place than where we was 23 years ago" just to me as a pissant means he doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. Nafta is a MAJOR part in WHY we have been in a ****ing recession for so damn long (tbh I don't even know if we are out of it bc it doesn't feel that way). Yes I know Bush's war tremendously "helped" put us further in the hole and obamas spending, but the average tax payer could be okay if ALOT of our jobs didn't go over seas... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Seems lack of coverage of Trump's policies would work against him not for. Then again, all his bull**** works with meshbacksYes, this is correct and logical. You would think at sometime Trump would want the media to discuss his realistic policies ....the ones that matter like economic ones Yet he keeps hijacking his own narrative No you were not listening. He gave a serious and well thought out speech on his economic policy in Detroit last week and the media ignored it altogether. They covered Clinton's almost verbatim.No thats not true as I mentioned The media did discuss it, I watched several hours of political and economic commentary. Thats why I posted the views of Moodys analysts like Mark Zandi. Here is an updated link, the video interview with Wolf Blitzer is particularly relevant http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/08/zandi_on_trump_speech_nafta_was_good_for_economy_in_general_dark_irony_if_we_step_back_from_trade.html Smh at the person in that article. "Haven't done the research" and "better place than where we was 23 years ago" just to me as a pissant means he doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. Nafta is a MAJOR part in WHY we have been in a ****ing recession for so damn long (tbh I don't even know if we are out of it bc it doesn't feel that way). Yes I know Bush's war tremendously "helped" put us further in the hole and obamas spending, but the average tax payer could be okay if ALOT of our jobs didn't go over seas... I can understand how when he says " I haven't done the research " this may seem to be illogical but he was referring specially to the impact on upmarket NY But overall he is clear that the USA is in a much better place economically from initiatives like Nafta compared to the last 20 years "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I got Magna **** Laude from Rice University, what did you get? *lol* Let me guess, Communication Arts? I got my degree out of a Cracker Jack box. But it came with a cool decoder ring. Electrical engineering and computer science. I'm sure the decoder ring is worth a lot more than your actual degree. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/12/politics/clinton-trump-swing-state-polls/index.html Guys more good news, Trump is behind Clinton in critical swing states. These include NC, Florida, Virginia and Colorado Also it is unacceptable that Trump refuses to release his tax returns http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/hillary-clinton-release-tax-returns/index.html Trump claims he cant release his tax returns due to an IRS audit but the IRS has said this is no legal reason for Trump not to release his tax returns .....what is Trump hiding? Why is he so reluctant to release his tax returns. This should be a huge concern for any US citizen ? No matter what's in his tax return, they would provide a huge amount of ammo for Hilzilla's opposition research and the media that's doing the work for her. They can distort anything and make a good use of it. And of course most people's business record isn't all that honest, I don't expect Trump's to be any different. Why won't Hilzilla release her speeches to Goldman Sachs, or the 30 thousand e-mails she deleted while under Congressional subpoena? What he's hiding is one of two things, or probably both. That he's using creative methods to pay less taxes and that he isn't half as rich as he states. Mostly, it's about his own public image, which is, far and away, what he values the most. By the way, did you see the recent one, where Trump was asked what his dad would think about His running for president? He replied, I kid you not, that he was sure his dad would allow it. Talk about daddy issues. Nothing surprises me anymore about Trumps comments or general bombast , its hard for Trump to actually shock or offend me anymore ...my expectation of what he says is typically " how low can Trump stoop with his rhetoric " He says things like "Obama\Clinton are the founders of ISIS " http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/trump-obama-isis/index.html And then he claims " I was just being sarcastic " ...this is the man who wants to be the leader of the most powerful military and economic superpower in the world Why wasn't there any outrage when Hilzilla called Trump "a recruiter for ISIS"? If he's the recruiter, she's the founder. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leferd Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 @Leferd: I got that from Wikipedia, which is of course only as accurate as the guy you wrote the article. The only point I was trying to make is August is way too soon to pop the champagne corks. Then this must be the same source that Trump gets his facts from. Which is to say that they are completely inaccurate and have nothing to do with reality. Aggregate polling data tend to get really good about a month after the national conventions. Nate Silver's models have also been historically accurate (factors in the post convention bumps, the state of the economy, and demographics). We're getting closer to that date. "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I would agree that Trump is in trouble right now. You have to meet a certain threshold before people will entrust you with the presidency, and once you image is formed in the public mind it's very hard to overcome. Right now it's a referendum on Trump which he will lose. It has to become a referendum on Hillary for her to lose. It would take a very special set of circumstances for Trump to still be able to win. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 In other news Gary Johnson is trying to capitalize on his poll numbers with Millenials. He is now leading Clinton & Trump with voters under 30: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/gary-johnson-millennials/ Johnson/Weld are also improving in battleground states, increasing from 10% to 12% by average http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/12/gary-johnsons-poll-numbers-rising-in-bat. Nationally they are at 13%, still below the the debate threshold but that may not matter. The CPD has said if he gets close they will have him and they are already planning a third podium http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/debates-clinton-trump-johnson-stein-226806. Plus he is very competitive in Utah & New Mexico (his home state) http://www.inquisitr.com/3339487/gary-johnson-polls-as-libertarian-candidate-nears-15-percent-mark-needed-to-join-debates-new-poll-shows-johnson-could-win-in-utah/. If he can win either or both states there are a number of scenarios that will prevent any candidate from reaching 270. The election would then go to a Congress that figures to be divided 52-55% vs 48-45%. Johnson/Weld might serve as a compromise pick. But even if it doesn't go down this way winning a state would be huge. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leferd Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 GD, I'm wishing you the best but any scenario where Gary Johnson wins an electoral vote is extremely unlikely. Historically, third party candidates come on strong early but fade away losing momentum...and by election day - among those that said they'll vote third party - a huge chunk will end up voting for a major party candidate anyway. It's already August and Johnson has only reached 13% on only one poll --and that was from July 16th. Of the last seven national polls, he's only hit 10% once. Sorry man, it ain't likely happening. Colorado projections: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/colorado/#plus Utah projections: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/utah/#plus New Mexico projections: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/new-mexico/#plus Trump's odds are getting closer to the point where he's having to chase after a Runner-Runner Gutshot Inside Straight Draw. Based on these projections, your Johnson scenario isn't technically drawing dead, but you'repractically hoping to hit a Four of a Kind (4,100 to 1 odds). "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If he gets in the debates a whole new hand gets dealt. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leferd Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If he gets in the debates a whole new hand gets dealt. That could be true, but nevertheless, historical third party trends are against this. Ross Perot and Ralph Nader came on much stronger in the beginning only to lose voter share as it gets closer to Election Day. Using a Track & Field metaphor...Johnson isn't going to get a negative split the second half of the race compared to the first. His candidacy never built built enough momentum. Hell you could make the argument that Trump is in fact the Third Party candidate that just happens to have won a major party nomination. And like all third party candidates, they start strong only to fade away as things get closer to the election. "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Yeah the reason why 3rd Parties fade in the stretch is they are like a summer fling. After the debates (that the 3rd Parties are seldom part of) the disaffected Republicans and Democrats go back home to their respective parties. Maybe not willingly but they go. This time might be different. This time there are two candidates few really like. As for Johnson, remember I've said all along he has no shot of an outright win. The only shot he has is to win a state or two and have the rest fall out in such a way as neither Clinton nor Trump reaches 270. Then, maybe... MAYBE he will be seen as a compromise candidate in a House or Representatives election. Even that is the longest of long shots. Such an election probably works in Trumps favor. The best case has always been get into the debates to make the electorate aware of the brand and win 5% of the popular vote in order to get election assistance and automatic ballot access in 2020. If he gets in the debates the 5% is very do-able. In fact it would even be a disappointment if that was all he got. If he does not then the 5% is still possible but it's much tougher. No matter what he has my vote because I cannot stomach the heavy handed authoritarianism of the Democrats and Clinton is... what she is. And I couldn't live with myself I voted for a man like Donald Trump. Edited August 13, 2016 by Guard Dog 3 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I was just reading about Perot on Wikipedia and I forgot that he actually dropped out of the race before he got back in. That hurt his chances more than anything. 1 "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 2 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) You just gotta love the silly season. It brings out the best in all of us! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/12/trump_rally-goer_to_cnn_reporter_i_am_a_patriot_and_you_are_a_traitor.html Edited August 14, 2016 by Guard Dog 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leferd Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 You just gotta love the silly season. It brings out the best in all of us! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/12/trump_rally-goer_to_cnn_reporter_i_am_a_patriot_and_you_are_a_traitor.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue I sorry he's wearing the Gadsen flag. Easily one of the coolest symbols in US history. "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 You just gotta love the silly season. It brings out the best in all of us! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/12/trump_rally-goer_to_cnn_reporter_i_am_a_patriot_and_you_are_a_traitor.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue I sorry he's wearing the Gadsen flag. Easily one of the coolest symbols in US history. oddly enough, the gadsden flag is a knock-off o' an earlier minuteman flag... am drawing a blank on the name. 'course we only know the history of the gadsden flag 'cause o' the eeoc kerfuffle. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leferd Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 You just gotta love the silly season. It brings out the best in all of us! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/12/trump_rally-goer_to_cnn_reporter_i_am_a_patriot_and_you_are_a_traitor.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue I sorry he's wearing the Gadsen flag. Easily one of the coolest symbols in US history. oddly enough, the gadsden flag is a knock-off o' an earlier minuteman flag... am drawing a blank on the name. 'course we only know the history of the gadsden flag 'cause o' the eeoc kerfuffle. HA! Good Fun! Are you referring to this one? The First Navy Jack? I actually have it up on my wall. 1 "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 You just gotta love the silly season. It brings out the best in all of us! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/12/trump_rally-goer_to_cnn_reporter_i_am_a_patriot_and_you_are_a_traitor.html These people would be awesome in a Dark Heresy group Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) You just gotta love the silly season. It brings out the best in all of us! http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/12/trump_rally-goer_to_cnn_reporter_i_am_a_patriot_and_you_are_a_traitor.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue I sorry he's wearing the Gadsen flag. Easily one of the coolest symbols in US history. oddly enough, the gadsden flag is a knock-off o' an earlier minuteman flag... am drawing a blank on the name. 'course we only know the history of the gadsden flag 'cause o' the eeoc kerfuffle. HA! Good Fun! Are you referring to this one? The First Navy Jack? I actually have it up on my wall. no. as we said, it were a minuteman flag. however, is possible we got it backwards as to which came first. am knowing that benjamin franklin is the guy who popularized the notion o' the snake as emblematic o' the American spirit/identity with the "snake divided" image and the "join or die" standard that followed. s'posed spawned numerous snake flags thereafter. gadsden flag does have kewlness in its favor. *shrug* our knowledge o' flags is decidedly post texas v. johnson. HA! Good Fun! ps apologize for removing images, but am doing our part to keep clutter reduced. Edited August 14, 2016 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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