US Election 2016, part II

[BruceVC]

 

 

I will tell you all one thing. The fastest way to move Donald Trump to 1600 Pensylvania Ave. is to do BS like this: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/violence-breaks-trump-rally-san-jose-protesters-hurl/story?id=39576437

 

Burning the US flag, waving Mexican flags, assaulting people, trashing cars. If you want to put people backs up and geting them voting from Trump this is the way to do it.

Surly this highly irresponsible behavior wouldnt be a reason for people to suddenly vote Trump?

 

I would imagine people who burn the US flag would be in the minority?

 

 

It doesn't matter Bruce. People largely don't put a lot of effort into researching who to vote for. They just watch the news and see the people opposed to Trump burning American flags, waving Mexican ones, beating up Trump supporters, and hearing "Make America Great Again" "Deport illegals stealing jobs from Americans" "Make the people who benefit from our military either meet their obligations or pay for our protection" and think Trump is the sane one.

 

I have read that link several times and I cant find where they burnt the US flag, they burned a " Trump Make America Great  " which I can understand especially if I was Latino ? Where did they burn the US  flag?

 

But does this violence surprise you ? I'm use to this type of social unrest....Trump must play a huge part in this type of resistance to him as he started the diatribe with his highly offensive comments 

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

I will tell you all one thing. The fastest way to move Donald Trump to 1600 Pensylvania Ave. is to do BS like this: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/violence-breaks-trump-rally-san-jose-protesters-hurl/story?id=39576437

 

Burning the US flag, waving Mexican flags, assaulting people, trashing cars. If you want to put people backs up and geting them voting from Trump this is the way to do it.

Surly this highly irresponsible behavior wouldnt be a reason for people to suddenly vote Trump?

 

I would imagine people who burn the US flag would be in the minority?

 

 

It doesn't matter Bruce. People largely don't put a lot of effort into researching who to vote for. They just watch the news and see the people opposed to Trump burning American flags, waving Mexican ones, beating up Trump supporters, and hearing "Make America Great Again" "Deport illegals stealing jobs from Americans" "Make the people who benefit from our military either meet their obligations or pay for our protection" and think Trump is the sane one.

 

I have read that link several times and I cant find where they burnt the US flag, they burned a " Trump Make America Great  " which I can understand especially if I was Latino ? Where did they burn the US  flag?

 

But does this violence surprise you ? I'm use to this type of social unrest....Trump must play a huge part in this type of resistance to him as he started the diatribe with his highly offensive comments 

 

 

It must be hard living in society where people's mental capacity ranges from those of children to those simply lacking any understanding in civil discourse.

[Volourn]

So.. Bruce okays violence if someone says mean things. Got it.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

I will tell you all one thing. The fastest way to move Donald Trump to 1600 Pensylvania Ave. is to do BS like this: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/violence-breaks-trump-rally-san-jose-protesters-hurl/story?id=39576437

 

Burning the US flag, waving Mexican flags, assaulting people, trashing cars. If you want to put people backs up and geting them voting from Trump this is the way to do it.

Surly this highly irresponsible behavior wouldnt be a reason for people to suddenly vote Trump?

 

I would imagine people who burn the US flag would be in the minority?

 

 

It doesn't matter Bruce. People largely don't put a lot of effort into researching who to vote for. They just watch the news and see the people opposed to Trump burning American flags, waving Mexican ones, beating up Trump supporters, and hearing "Make America Great Again" "Deport illegals stealing jobs from Americans" "Make the people who benefit from our military either meet their obligations or pay for our protection" and think Trump is the sane one.

 

I have read that link several times and I cant find where they burnt the US flag, they burned a " Trump Make America Great  " which I can understand especially if I was Latino ? Where did they burn the US  flag?

 

But does this violence surprise you ? I'm use to this type of social unrest....Trump must play a huge part in this type of resistance to him as he started the diatribe with his highly offensive comments 

 

 

It must be hard living in society where people's mental capacity ranges from those of children to those simply lacking any understanding in civil discourse.

 

 

 

So.. Bruce okays violence if someone says mean things. Got it.

 

I dont support the violence but you can understand why many people are angry with Trump

 

 

Trump made a conscious decision to attack the Latino community because he knew it would appeal to some of his supporters and get him media attention but did he just think people would smile and happily accept  being told " you guys are basically rapists and drug dealers  " 

[Volourn]

He never claimed all Latinos were rapists and drug dealers. L0L

 

Funny enough,  more than a few Latinos support him.

 

 Stop making excuses for unneeded violence. using violence b/.c someone said mean things is wrong. PERIOD.

[Zoraptor]

 

..Gary Johnson ain't gonna bring anything that's going to interest voters.

 

 

Apart from being notHillary and notTrump, and every 3rd party candidate brings that. And most of those voting against a candidate will vote for the other mainstream one they hate less, as always, with a few voting for Johnson on the right and Stein on the left.

 

If you want successful 3rd party candidates you need to have at least preferential voting rather than just 50odd fptp delegate races. All that can happen if a 3rd party candidate breaks through is that the Greens become the new Democrats or the Libertarians become the new GOP.

 

 

 

 

Man, Daniel Bryan has really let himself go since retiring from wrestling. Still, he'd get a Yes! Yes! Yes! from me at the ballot box.

[BruceVC]

He never claimed all Latinos were rapists and drug dealers. L0L

 

Funny enough,  more than a few Latinos support him.

 

 Stop making excuses for unneeded violence. using violence b/.c someone said mean things is wrong. PERIOD.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/16/donald-trump-mexico-presidential-speech-latino-hispanic

 

 

Yes he did 

[Guard Dog]

 

I dont support the violence but you can understand why many people are angry with Trump

 

 

Trump made a conscious decision to attack the Latino community because he knew it would appeal to some of his supporters and get him media attention but did he just think people would smile and happily accept  being told " you guys are basically rapists and drug dealers  " 

 

So because they are angry with Trump it's perfectly understandable that they should trash the property of and beat the hell out of people who are not Donald Trump? Way to go, become the monsters Trump accuses them of being. They are doing more to help him than hurt him.

[Guard Dog]

 

I have read that link several times and I cant find where they burnt the US flag, they burned a " Trump Make America Great  " which I can understand especially if I was Latino ? Where did they burn the US  flag?

 

 

But does this violence surprise you ? I'm use to this type of social unrest....Trump must play a huge part in this type of resistance to him as he started the diatribe with his highly offensive comments 

 

Happy to help: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/donald-trump-california-protesters/

[Oerwinde]

 

 

He never claimed all Latinos were rapists and drug dealers. L0L

 

Funny enough, more than a few Latinos support him.

 

Stop making excuses for unneeded violence. using violence b/.c someone said mean things is wrong. PERIOD.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/16/donald-trump-mexico-presidential-speech-latino-hispanic

 

 

Yes he did

There used to be a time when the use of generalizations was intended to speed up discussion because most people understand when you say "mexico is sending their rapists and drug dealers" you don't mean every mexican is a rapist and drug dealer. Because its quicker than saying "a great number of illegal mexican immigrants are at a higher rate than American citizens engaging in criminal activities such as drug dealing and rape". Mexico actually releases instruction booklets on how to better your chances of illegal immigration to the US. So while he may have just said mexico is sending them as rhetoric, but its actually true. So really when you have a crime ridden impoverished nation supporting their poor and criminal to leave the country for its rich neighbour illegally , how is a wall out of the question? Edited June 4, 2016 by Oerwinde

[BruceVC]

 

 

I have read that link several times and I cant find where they burnt the US flag, they burned a " Trump Make America Great  " which I can understand especially if I was Latino ? Where did they burn the US  flag?

 

 

But does this violence surprise you ? I'm use to this type of social unrest....Trump must play a huge part in this type of resistance to him as he started the diatribe with his highly offensive comments 

 

Happy to help: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/donald-trump-california-protesters/

 

 

Thanks for the link, I think burning a flag of a country that you live in  especially a democracy like the USA is deplorable 

 

 

If I had control of laws that person would immediately face a tribunal where there intent would be questioned ....and if the response is something like " I burnt the US flag because of what Trump said "  that person could be  immediately deported because of there stupidity ( imagine having to explain Trump doesnt represent the USA but is merely a politician and burning of the flag is an attack on the entire country )

Its like my views on how to deal with  some of the racist comments from a small group of white South Africans ....tribunals and then incarceration for a 2-3 years. Remove them from society, people will quickly learn what is responsible behavior

 

 

 

He never claimed all Latinos were rapists and drug dealers. L0L

 

Funny enough, more than a few Latinos support him.

 

Stop making excuses for unneeded violence. using violence b/.c someone said mean things is wrong. PERIOD.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/16/donald-trump-mexico-presidential-speech-latino-hispanic

 

 

Yes he did

There used to be a time when the use of generalizations was intended to speed up discussion because most people understand when you say "mexico is sending their rapists and drug dealers" you don't mean every mexican is a rapist and drug dealer. Because its quicker than saying "a great number of illegal mexican immigrants are at a higher rate than American citizens engaging in criminal activities such as drug dealing and rape". Mexico actually releases instruction booklets on how to better your chances of illegal immigration to the US. So while he may have just said mexico is sending them as rhetoric, but its actually true. So really when you have a crime ridden impoverished nation supporting their poor and criminal to leave the country for its rich neighbour illegally , how is a wall out of the question?

 

I appreciate the fact you have made this post, now I understand your view

 

Trump knew exactly what he was saying and why he was saying it 

 

Almost everything controversial he has ever said is calculated and is not really about the words but who they resonate with 

 

But in the USA there are millions of Latinos who are legal  citizens and contribute meaningfully towards a better USA, yes we know about the Latino gangs but they  must be the minority 

 

Why should hardworking citizens of the USA who happen to be Latino be subjected to that type of verbal abuse ? I would be equally annoyed with Trump....

[Malcador]

The bit where he says he assumes some are good people is the meaty part. Doesn't Trump play hard man when undesirables show up at his rallies

[BruceVC]

The bit where he says he assumes some are good people is the meaty part. Doesn't Trump play hard man when undesirables show up at his rallies

Yes he does and he did in the beginning

 

The rise of Trump is actually  a fascinating window into the depths of populism and how you can achieve a real political movement in a place like the US by following a certain strategy

 

Personally I could never do or be part of that approach to politics but it worked for Trump but at the expense of alienating or offending most demographics except for who  it was aimed at... disenfranchised white males 

 

But the decisions and comments he made I found almost incomprehensible, for example 

 

• In the beginning he refused to apologize or admit he was wrong about anything....so its like " admitting a person is wrong makes you weak " 
• Suddenly " being PC "  is a  big no no. Now I understand on the Internet and forums like this some people dont like this concept of being PC all the time. But in RL being PC is normal and expected and achieves the best results when debating or making certain points. Its not hard to be PC and is just really a form of diplomacy. But for some of Trumps supporters they loved the way Trump " refused to be PC and spoke the truth " ....except there is no logical corollary between not being PC and the truth  being spoken. So for example I can insult people and not be PC but its still hyperbole or I'm biased 

[Volourn]

"Yes he did"
 

No he didn't. Nowhere in your link does he claim all Latinos are rapists. Nice try though but try again.

 

 Really annoying when SJW nazis make me defend a piece of trash like Trump.

[Meshugger]

Its like my views on how to deal with  some of the racist comments from a small group of white South Africans ....tribunals and then incarceration for a 2-3 years. Remove them from society, people will quickly learn what is responsible behavior

 

Freedom of expression for some, jails for others. 

[Longknife]

Guys remember that time Bruce had a good opinion

 

Me neither

[BruceVC]

 

 

I dont support the violence but you can understand why many people are angry with Trump

 

 

Trump made a conscious decision to attack the Latino community because he knew it would appeal to some of his supporters and get him media attention but did he just think people would smile and happily accept  being told " you guys are basically rapists and drug dealers  " 

 

So because they are angry with Trump it's perfectly understandable that they should trash the property of and beat the hell out of people who are not Donald Trump? Way to go, become the monsters Trump accuses them of being. They are doing more to help him than hurt him.

 

Funny enough I can provide an answer to this point, I have seen this through the years  in SA ( not white getting beaten up ). You are right though, destroying property and beating up some Trump supporters is wrong

 

But this type of violence is more of an emotional  human reaction to people feeling marginalized by a system or laws, the people who feel they are being hard treated cannot necessarily change the system so they burn or destroy property as a form of protest

 

You think you have unreasonable protesters, we deal with this every few months in SA but it is getting less

 

  https://crusaderjournal.com/2016/05/06/19-schools-burnt-to-the-ground-in-south-africa/

 

 

 

 

Its like my views on how to deal with  some of the racist comments from a small group of white South Africans ....tribunals and then incarceration for a 2-3 years. Remove them from society, people will quickly learn what is responsible behavior

 

Freedom of expression for some, jails for others. 

 

 

Hear me out for a second on this one, why are racist comments considered free speech?

 

So what I mean is why do we classify hurtful and offensive comments as acceptable, this should be changed as it abuses what free speech is suppose to be 

[Meshugger]

Thank you for agreeing that freedom is impossible with forced diversity. Have fun with your dystopia where misery is propegated by an elite class who keeps the groups by your own design from hating and killing each other through superior acts of violence.

[Ganrich]

If you add a "but" or "however" after saying "I believe in free speech" then you don't actually believe in it. If you build a pier on the river over time it will gather debris, sediment, etc., and if you make a single taboo to unadulterated free speech more taboos will gather over time. Whatever speech bothers people at any given time will be added to the list. You take the beauty of free speech with the horror, or you don't have free speech.

[BruceVC]

Thank you for agreeing that freedom is impossible with forced diversity. Have fun with your dystopia where misery is propegated by an elite class who keeps the groups by your own design from hating and killing each other through superior acts of violence.

 

If you add a "but" or "however" after saying "I believe in free speech" then you don't actually believe in it. If you build a pier on the river over time it will gather debris, sediment, etc., and if you make a single taboo to unadulterated free speech more taboos will gather over time. Whatever speech bothers people at any given time will be added to the list. You take the beauty of free speech with the horror, or you don't have free speech.

 

Guys I dont think you trying to understand my point, please try to not look at this from your own view which is biased as you guys are convinced free speech means in a civil society that anything should be allowed to be said ...as long as its just words its okay 

 

@ Meshugger 

 

Please clarify your post as I have never suggested anything like that 

 

• Freedom is impossible with forced diversity? No I live in  a free country where we dont force diversity ....we acknowledge our diversity but we all are part of rebuilding the new SA
• misery is propegated by an elite class :Not really, I dont have issues with people who are wealthy. As long as they are ostentatious and think they better than everyone else....so what elite class do you mean?

• keeps the groups by your own design from hating and killing each other through superior acts of violence:  No thats not the SA  reality...black people dont want to kill white people at all? In fact we have been treated very well considering the attrocities of Apartheid. The racism I am talking about is from a small, 7 %,  of the white people ....and nothing actually happens to them except for most black people getting upset 

 

 

@ Ganrich

 

Yes I understand the argument about creep and suddenly there is real censorship ....but that doesnt have to happen. We only attempt to ban racist comments....thats all

 

Let me ask you something and be honest. Trump has ignited in some parts of the USA real anger and violence through his words ...in fact even if you not angry with him this has got to be the most unexpected and interesting but also divisive election the USA has ever seen

 

Do you really think this was necessary? Do you really think the USA needed this type of negative political outcomes? And if you do please tell me what the benefit it from Trump and his words ? 

[Guard Dog]

 

Let me ask you something and be honest. Trump has ignited in some parts of the USA real anger and violence through his words ...in fact even if you not angry with him this has got to be the most unexpected and interesting but also divisive election the USA has ever seen

 

Do you really think this was necessary? Do you really think the USA needed this type of negative political outcomes? And if you do please tell me what the benefit it from Trump and his words ? 

 

If I may opine on this point. Barack Obama has called people very much like me bitter, small minded, he says I cling to guns and religion because I'm afraid of people who don't look like me. He has insulted my religion when he spoke at Georgetown last year. He has insulted an organization I belong to, the VFW. He said people like me were incapable of thinking for ourselves. He has openly insulted my patriotisim and believes I am a likely terrorist because of my military service.

 

In response to all that I, and those like me, have not gathered and burned any flags, or him in effigy, or assualted anyone, or damaged property. Why? BECACUSE WE ARE NOT A PACK OF G-----D ANIMALS. Every human being on this ball of rock is solely responsible for one thing... their conduct! I am not going to riot and cause harm to people who have done me no wrong because some jackass in a suit holding a microphone said something I found offensive! You would have us believe it's an understandable response and Trump should be thrown in prision for upsetting the poor dears so. F--k that! It is so condescending to think those human beings are too witless to hold their tempers when everyone else around them can hold theirs.

 

If they want to protest, protest away. Hold signs, chant, sing songs, burn flags if you want. That hurts no one (doesen't endear you to anyone either). But by God that s--t stops the moment you pick up a rock, or hit someone, or threaten someone, or damage property. Now Trump is no longer the issue. It's them. They are the ones who belong in jail. Whats worse when they are acting like a pack of savages people look at them and think "Trump is right about them". And THAT is the worst part of all.

[Longknife]

 

Thank you for agreeing that freedom is impossible with forced diversity. Have fun with your dystopia where misery is propegated by an elite class who keeps the groups by your own design from hating and killing each other through superior acts of violence.

 

If you add a "but" or "however" after saying "I believe in free speech" then you don't actually believe in it. If you build a pier on the river over time it will gather debris, sediment, etc., and if you make a single taboo to unadulterated free speech more taboos will gather over time. Whatever speech bothers people at any given time will be added to the list. You take the beauty of free speech with the horror, or you don't have free speech.

 

Guys I dont think you trying to understand my point, please try to not look at this from your own view which is biased

 

 

Yeah cmon guys, stop being biased. You need to learn to be completely unbiased like our hero Bruce.

[Malcador]

Well at least he keeps his posts short unlike your diatribes. That's one thing for him.

 

Shame the press in the US doesn't put screws to politicians more often looking at this campaign.

[Leferd]

 

If I may opine on this point. Barack Obama has called people very much like me bitter, small minded, he says I cling to guns and religion because I'm afraid of people who don't look like me. He has insulted my religion when he spoke at Georgetown last year. He has insulted an organization I belong to, the VFW. He said people like me were incapable of thinking for ourselves. He has openly insulted my patriotisim and believes I am a likely terrorist because of my military service.

 

In response to all that I, and those like me, have not gathered and burned any flags, or him in effigy, or assualted anyone, or damaged property. 

 

Boo hoo hoo. Way to play the victim card. In all seriousness, get a grip.

[Meshugger]

 

Thank you for agreeing that freedom is impossible with forced diversity. Have fun with your dystopia where misery is propegated by an elite class who keeps the groups by your own design from hating and killing each other through superior acts of violence.

 

If you add a "but" or "however" after saying "I believe in free speech" then you don't actually believe in it. If you build a pier on the river over time it will gather debris, sediment, etc., and if you make a single taboo to unadulterated free speech more taboos will gather over time. Whatever speech bothers people at any given time will be added to the list. You take the beauty of free speech with the horror, or you don't have free speech.

 

 

@ Meshugger 

 

Please clarify your post as I have never suggested anything like that 

 

• Freedom is impossible with forced diversity? No I live in  a free country where we dont force diversity ....we acknowledge our diversity but we all are part of rebuilding the new SA
• misery is propegated by an elite class :Not really, I dont have issues with people who are wealthy. As long as they are ostentatious and think they better than everyone else....so what elite class do you mean?

• keeps the groups by your own design from hating and killing each other through superior acts of violence:  No thats not the SA  reality...black people dont want to kill white people at all? In fact we have been treated very well considering the attrocities of Apartheid. The racism I am talking about is from a small, 7 %,  of the white people ....and nothing actually happens to them except for most black people getting upset 

 

Here i was talking about the natural conclusion of policies, in general, which will make a society less free, more violent and racist and....did you just inject that SA is a dystopia in progress? 

 

'k