The Sith are the poor man's Empire

[Ivan the Terrible]

That was one of the things I disliked in KOTOR. Everything about the Sith gave the impression of trying really hard to be just like the Empire; the uniforms, the capital ships, the faceless body armor, the expendable waves of starfighters. Understandable, given the desire to emulate the OT....but a pity nonetheless.

 

I could understand it for the rank-and-file of the Sith Armada; they are in an army/navy, after all. But when Sith-in-training on Korriban were wearing grey Imperial-like uniforms, that kinda sucked.

 

I was hoping for more of a cult-like feel; the behind-the-scenes rulers with their weird traditions and rituals, directing operations with a dark purpose that they alone are privy to while the common soldiers are not so much malicious and evil but misguided and indoctrinated. I didn't want to see 'The Empire Lite'; I wanted to see more of what set the ancient Sith apart from their modern counterparts after Darth Bane.

 

Agree? Disagree?

[SilverSun]

I agree,yet at the same time it wasn't a major problem for me. Would have been nice to see something along those lines but how they worked it also was okay with me.

[Bala_Starwarz]

Didn't bother me since KOTOR is my first step into anicent Star Wars.

[Ivan the Terrible]

Didn't bother me since KOTOR is my first step into anicent Star Wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Same here. I only learned about the KOTOR time frame (Exar Kun, the Sith, etc.) out of curiosity when I first started playing it.

 

I think maybe it goes into the same complaint category as 'Why do they have the exact same level of technology 4000 years in the past as they do in the Empire?' The answer is obvious: they wanted to give it a Star Wars feel, but the result is lots of fodder for nitpicking.

[TSAdmiral]

I didn't notice that they tried to be Empire-wannabes until you brought it up. Now that you did, I look at the cadets slightly differently. They sure as hell didn't seem much like dark side usres, more like naval grunts with red lightsabers.

 

In the end, it didn't affect gameplay very much... but to imagine that all those Sith I killed started out wearing THAT in their days on the Academy... oh boy...

[Ivan the Terrible]

I didn't notice that they tried to be Empire-wannabes until you brought it up. Now that you did, I look at the cadets slightly differently. They sure as hell didn't seem much like dark side usres, more like naval grunts with red lightsabers. 

 

In the end, it didn't affect gameplay very much... but to imagine that all those Sith I killed started out wearing THAT in their days on the Academy... oh boy...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is the Foot Clan look any better? I kept waiting for Shredder and Krang to show up somewhere.

[TSAdmiral]

Saul Karrath is probably the worse dresser as well. Not that Malak was much better. Bandon however, had the style. If you ask me, Malak would have been dang intimidating and much more interesting had he worn Bandon's armor. The two outfits should have been switched. Now that I think about it, although KotOR manages to successfully capture the Star Wars feeling, another trademark of the series seems to be bad fashion sense.

[Topaz Quasar]

I didn't think Malak's outfit was that bad.......

 

But nothing in KOTOR could top Darth Revan's robe.

[TSAdmiral]

Oh heck yeah, the first time I saw him force choke the sucker and then grab his lightsaber in that flashy scorpion stance, I knew he was gonna kick some ass. If looks could kill, the Jedi boarding party would be dead. That mask and robe was one step short of a "Sith T-101 Terminator". Then Malak crashed the party. I wanted to see him take Bastila.

[Muad'Dib]

I agree with you completely Ivan, I was disappointed to see the Sith in an Imperial-like organization. Though I knew about the EU timeframes before playing KotOR, I always saw the Sith was as a counterpart to the Jedi, not the Republic, especially how they've been referenced in the movies.

 

Though I understand why the Sith was set up the way it was in the game (To be an equal opponent to the Republic) I had hoped they were represented differently. But then again I disregard the EU's 25K year old Republic anyways and follow the movie Republic which has only existed 1K years.

 

Nevertheless it didn't detract my enjoyment of the game or make me like it any less because of it.

[Ivan the Terrible]

But then again I disregard the EU's 25K year old Republic anyways and follow the movie Republic which has only existed 1K years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but the 25K year old Republic thing bugs me, too. I know it's a tad ludicrous to apply Real World political science to the freaking Star Wars Galaxy, but it's a bad habit I can't rid of and which bugs me in the course of the game.

 

Multi-national countries tend to be really, really unstable. Different ethnic groups want more representation for themselves, want independent countries where their own concerns come first, want to dominate other ethnic groups or avoid being dominated by them. Eventually, the pressure of all that causes them to fall apart, whether it's in five years or 100 years.

 

So how the hell would a galaxy-wide government involving the quarreling and bickering of (likely) tens of thousands of often wildly different species survive even a hundred years, much less a period of time which encapsulates the entirety of Real World human civilization as we know it and then some? What freaking moron out there chose for the Republic to be 25,000 years old, and why? Whoever it was should be beaten with a shovel.

 

Yes; I'll stick with the much more manageable (though still far-fetched) 1000 years, thank you very much.

[Catalyst]

Oh heck yeah, the first time I saw him force choke the sucker and then grab his lightsaber in that flashy scorpion stance, I knew he was gonna kick some ass. If looks could kill, the Jedi boarding party would be dead. That mask and robe was one step short of a "Sith T-101 Terminator". Then Malak crashed the party. I wanted to see him take Bastila.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The finest cutscene in the whole game. You got to admire some guy who, when outnumbered 4 to 1 by Jedi Knights, immediately kills the last of his allies for being such a lame commander. What a badass :D

 

I was crushed when I got Revan's Robes and it didn't look the same, with the hood and mask and everything

 

I want that scorpian stance in TSL (*hint hint* Devs).

[Nartwak]

Agree? Disagree?

Agree.

[Darth Sirius]

The finest cutscene in the whole game. You got to admire some guy who, when outnumbered 4 to 1 by Jedi Knights, immediately kills the last of his allies for being such a lame commander. What a badass :D

 

I was crushed when I got Revan's Robes and it didn't look the same, with the hood and mask and everything

 

I want that scorpian stance in TSL (*hint hint* Devs).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You and about every other user on this forum now someones going to come and say they didnt like the scorpion stance

[GeneralCrimson]

I dont like the scorpian stance nah just kidding its cool. The sith you guys are talking about is the one with Exar Kun. The Exar Kun sith and the Malak sith are completely different. Malak sih was an expansionistic empire so they had to have cheap starfighters, easy to make armor that looked the same, and Uniforms to tell which rank someone was. Do you honestly beleive the counterpart to the Jedi sith would have survived this long against the republic. As for the republic surviving for so long its simple. Each planet or nation governs themselves and the amount of technology ensures that 1. People on a planet aren't starving like 3rd world planets or something, Its a republic so the people vote for who is in to be in power. Its like the united nations with no fighting. A planet is pretty big you so theres no reason to want to go conquer your neighboring planet. But 25000 years is pretty long though

[GhostofAnakin]

I don't know much about the timeline, so I was curious, how DID the Sith dress back then? Were they all a bunch of Darth Mauls running around in black? Did they dress like Cobra Commander? I could never picture how the Sith would dress.

 

I tend to agree about the Sith, especially the Force user Sith. The foot soldiers (in armor) didn't really bother me, nor did the bridge soldiers in Imperial outfits. But the Force users did on Koriban. They should have been wearing some kind of robe, sorta like the Jedi.

[Carth Vader]

I wanted to see him take Bastila.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He did that later, if you did the Bastila romance.

[SmkJaguar]

But then again I disregard the EU's 25K year old Republic anyways and follow the movie Republic which has only existed 1K years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but the 25K year old Republic thing bugs me, too. I know it's a tad ludicrous to apply Real World political science to the freaking Star Wars Galaxy, but it's a bad habit I can't rid of and which bugs me in the course of the game.

 

Multi-national countries tend to be really, really unstable. Different ethnic groups want more representation for themselves, want independent countries where their own concerns come first, want to dominate other ethnic groups or avoid being dominated by them. Eventually, the pressure of all that causes them to fall apart, whether it's in five years or 100 years.

 

I think that's because the logic is in human terms. And we can't even be sure the humans of SW are the same kind of humans that we are. After all SW is a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away (or something like that). And when you throw high technology, aliens with lifespans that exceed several centuries (although it's by no means certain that Yoda's extreme longevity is common, the point remains is that it exists, and is largely acknowledged by his fellow Jedi and good portion of the galaxy at large), and a largely unifying religion that has access to identifiable and readily recognizable miracle feats (the Force), a civilation spanning tens of thousands of years really isn't all that far fetched.

 

So how the hell would a galaxy-wide government involving the quarreling and bickering of (likely) tens of thousands of often wildly different species survive even a hundred years, much less a period of time which encapsulates the entirety of Real World human civilization as we know it and then some? What freaking moron out there chose for the Republic to be 25,000 years old, and why? Whoever it was should be beaten with a shovel.

 

Yes; I'll stick with the much more manageable (though still far-fetched) 1000 years, thank you very much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

For the above point, I would refer to that unifying religion thing. Even the Dark Jedi and Sith 'worship' the Force. Difficult to discount a religion when a practitioner force chokes you <_< as a physical demonstration (although that's more of a Sith thing, the Jedi would likely just jump between the antagonists and ignite his sabre if things got ugly). Accordingly, people would likely give a large measure of respect to others, even when differing in opinion (even a Jedi's presence can be intimidating, so it's best to keep arguments very civil :ph34r: ).

 

Also, the humans of SW seem to be on average, far more enlightened. Must be a product of their advanced technology. That and the Jedi. And with the Jedi presence, civilization has a stabilizing factor, although the Sith, while in hiding, have done all they can destabilize the situation.

 

Besides, if the Republic has been around for 1000 yrs, that would mean Yoda's been around for the vast majority of it. His immediate forbear would have been there to witness the birth of the Republic and would likely have influenced it greatly (when these Yoda types have something to say, everyone generally stops and listens - at least that's been my impression). In anycase, I favour the 25k version, makes the SW universe more mythical (which is what was seemingly intended in the first place, considering the "thousand generations" line was given in ANH).

 

I sincerely hope Yoda isn't the last of his kind. It just isn't SW without some Yoda type around. Which is kind of funny, considering The Movie that touched off the phenomenon had no mention of Yoda (maybe that's why I favour the other two of the OT). In fact it just isn't SW unless there's a Jedi around B) .

 

Of course, this is from a guy (being me) who generally has his heads in the clouds (or spends entirely too much time indoors :ph34r: ), I think a little romantic idealism is excusable.

[Meshugger]

That was one of the things I disliked in KOTOR. Everything about the Sith gave the impression of trying really hard to be just like the Empire; the uniforms, the capital ships, the faceless body armor, the expendable waves of starfighters. Understandable, given the desire to emulate the OT....but a pity nonetheless.

 

I could understand it for the rank-and-file of the Sith Armada; they are in an army/navy, after all.  But when Sith-in-training on Korriban were wearing grey Imperial-like uniforms, that kinda sucked.

 

I was hoping for more of a cult-like feel; the behind-the-scenes rulers with their weird traditions and rituals, directing operations with a dark purpose that they alone are privy to while the common soldiers are not so much malicious and evil but misguided and indoctrinated. I didn't want to see 'The Empire Lite'; I wanted to see more of what set the ancient Sith apart from their modern counterparts after Darth Bane.

 

Agree? Disagree?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never really got bothered by the way the Sith dressed really, ofcourse it could've been done better, but they pretty suited the 'evil empire'-look archetype that's so apparent in Star Wars.

 

So i could say that i somewhat agree.

[TSAdmiral]

For such strict standards of entering a dari side cult (death), they sure dressed rather cheesy in the process of graduating.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

For such strict standards of entering a dari side cult (death), they sure dressed rather cheesy in the process of graduating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, very camp.

[Topaz Quasar]

I wanted to see him take Bastila.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He did that later, if you did the Bastila romance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But if Revan's a she.......

[TSAdmiral]

I meant that I wanted to see him waste Bastila. But you guys probably knew that and just went along with the gag. If Revan was a she, then I would have Canderous throw them BOTH out the nearest airlock.

[nightcleaver]

So how the hell would a galaxy-wide government involving the quarreling and bickering of (likely) tens of thousands of often wildly different species survive even a hundred years, much less a period of time which encapsulates the entirety of Real World human civilization as we know it and then some? What freaking moron out there chose for the Republic to be 25,000 years old, and why? Whoever it was should be beaten with a shovel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lack of outside influence. Think about it - this is the galaxy-wide republic here. Those outside the republic don't have the power to even touch the republic.

Lightspeed technology might be extremely difficult to reproduce without the right tools and resources; one possibility, I would even suggest, is that one world (or one group of worlds, the details are irrelevant) found how to make hyperdrives, and began spreading this tech to the various other worlds. The Republic could've started as a monopoly of hyperspace technology.

 

The roman empire survived for about half a century, and the government was insanely corrupt. How did they survive? All influence was from within; the government was fairly loose, loose enough that people didn't feel so passionately as a collective to revolt. AS time went on, though, and the empire was growing stagnant (it wasn't growing, you see), and practices become more and more decadent, things went for the worse. However, it survived for a very long time before anything bad happened. When barbarians overwhelmed the romans is when the roman empire died, but even so "Byzantine" survived. Also, people might've thought the Republic was dead, but "in the end it survived," so that "the rest was history". With thousands of years, the details get vague and people aren't really sure when or if the Republic died, just as we still have trouble deciding whether Christopher Columbus was the first to discover America and thus our hero, our "founding father" of sorts, when he really just found an island and called it India. I could very well see an old empire that once existed, possibly even as a competitor to the current "Republic", which the current republic maintains as part of it's roots for whatever reason. When you're covering all these light years, solar systems and planets and whole species across the 'Republic', I also might add that the Roman empire, towards the end, was totally ineffectual for several generations before it actually fell - it effectively had no government, but was still in existence. You could say, and some historians do say, that the Roman empire was dead before it died.

 

Travel through space might have been a lot slower a long time ago. This would produce an effect of re-inspiration, even though it would also result in some stagnation of unity. The Republic could've started out with far too much time between worlds for there to be any conflict. Once travel was easier, trade and understanding would eventually become easier, although I'm sure there would be some initial growing pains, so to speak, in the form of of "in-fighting"; and just as we in america define the winning side as america to this day (not to argue against that), the republic maintained that the winning side in whatever civil wars happened was always "The Republic".

 

We don't actually know what definition of dead the Star Wars EU history is going by, in other words, so I find it hard to deem this whole thing "unrealistic" or even "unbelievable".

[mastaGAW]

You mean half a millienium right.