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Obsidian’s 10th Extra Life Anniversary

The Rogue and Barbarian Polishing Poll

Elric Galad
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Proposed Rogue and Barbarian Ability changes  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Proposed Rogue Ability changes : Pick what you would like to see implemented !

    • Escape: Still 1 per encounter, but I propose to add refreshed on kill.
      12
    • Riposte: Change to 20% Riposte on Miss and Graze (instead of only Miss).
      22
    • Adept Evasion: 100% Graze to Miss against attacks that target reflex. (instead of 50%)
      11
    • Withering Strike: Change to 2/Encounter (instead of 1/Encounter)
      11
    • Fearsome Strike: Change to 1/Encounter. Weakened and Hobbled last for 15s (instead of 10s debuff and 1/Rest)
      13
    • Smoke Cloud: Ability a bit reworked to make it the “Rogue Immolation”, a debuffing cloud moving with the rogue. Duration 15s, Tick every 3s, Distraction lasts for 5s. (Same AoE, same accuracy bonus +15)
      3
    • Shadow Step: Duration decreased to 5s (increased by INT). Rogue stays invisible during Shadow Step. Invisibility is not cancelled by attacking and Backstab bonus damages applies while invisible. (Still teleport in and out)
      9
    • Feign Death: Prone part duration halved. Healing per tick doubled to keep the same total amount. Still trigger invisibility for 6s (which is currently not cancelled by attacking.).
      8

  2. 2. Proposed Barbarian Ability changes : Pick what you would like to see implemented !

    • Barbaric Yell : Change to fast cast, no recovery (instead of average cast with recovery).
      18
    • Wild Sprint: Also add 20% melee damages for duration.
      9
    • One Stand Alone: Active if 3 enemies are within 1.5m (modified by INT). But do not require engagements anymore. Still add +2 enemies to the number required to flank barbarian.
      13
    • Thick-Skinned: +3 DR against Slash, Pierce and Crush (instead of +2DR)
      15
    • Barbaric Shout : Change to fast cast, no recovery (instead of average cast with recovery).
      15
    • Heart of Fury: Change to 1/encounter (instead of 1/rest)
      13
    • Dragon Leap : Daze effect replaced by 5s AoE Prone (neither Ground nor Unconsciousness based).
      14
    • Echoing Shout: Changed from “AoE” to “Foe-only AoE”.
      13

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Elric Galad

Elric Galad

Posted
Posted (edited)

So, Patch 3.02 is here and we should not expect much evolution to current classes.

That is not a bad news, because according to this topic, people are pretty satisfied with current status :
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85366-class-balance/
Obsidian did a really nice job.

However, according to the same topic, 2 little complaints are risen :
- Casters (especially wizard and priest) seem to be a bit more powerful than the rest. Let's say that the limited ressource they have and consumables everybody can use tend to reduce the gap.
- Rogue and Barbarian are usually said to be a bit UP. Not that much by the way.

The reason behind these complaints about these 2 classes are usually :
- Barbarians tend to be a bit one trick poney
- Rogues have a short head for single target DPS, but no big gap that will justify their lack of other abilities.
- Their high level abilities are not so great. They didn't get uber skill from WM I like Twin Arrows, Immolation, etc...
 

Also, Obsidian did admit some abilities still need rework, such as Riposte on the link below (thanks Infinitron):

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85045-riposte-rogue-viable-potd/page-2

I'm going to propose here some changes. I've tried to make them reflect not only my own opinion, but also other people views. (but yeah, that's subjective).
These modifications take into account that Obsidian is currently very unlikey to make big changes to the classes. So I'm not invoking major rework. (at least I don’t think they are “major”.)

I also tried to avoid changes on abilities which “could work”, even if not perfect.

 

 

When answering the poll, keep in mind that it’s unlikely that Obsidian would rework all the named abilities. So don’t hesitate to make some priorities ! For example, I've limited my own anwsers to 5 wishes per class. OK, 5 per class might be too much, but that's my ideas so it's quite hard to disagree with them  :getlost:

 

In this thread, you can find a short description of the proposed changes, but you can find deeper explanations about these changes in: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85541-the-rogue-and-barbarian-polishing-thread/

(and you can also find reasons why I didn’t touch to other abilities).

This thread was positive for me because I got mostly positive review :- .

 

Don't hesitate if you have any questions or remarks.

Thank you for answers and review !

Edited by Elric Galad
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MaxQuest

MaxQuest

Posted
Posted

Voted all options, except "rogue immolation" (i would also prefer a different approach) and "shadow step" (since it is unclear to me how needed/balanced it is).

 

Other suggestions look nice and welcome, especially riposte, barbarian shouts and one stands alone, pushing them to viable status.

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Kinowek

Kinowek

Posted
Posted

Most of those proposed changes would be welcome, although I would not want to face any NPC rogues with a 100% Graze to Miss chance, or Barbarians whose leaps cast AoE prone.

 

A little too strong those two, in my opinion. The rest would be great, except for:

 

Smoke cloud... I've used it a couple times then respecced away from it. It is just inferior to other abilities, but I don't think an AoE Debuff cloud really fits with a Pillars rogue either, so I didn't vote yes to that either.

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Elric Galad

Elric Galad

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Posted

Most of those proposed changes would be welcome, although I would not want to face any NPC rogues with a 100% Graze to Miss chance, or Barbarians whose leaps cast AoE prone.

 

A little too strong those two, in my opinion. The rest would be great, except for:

 

Smoke cloud... I've used it a couple times then respecced away from it. It is just inferior to other abilities, but I don't think an AoE Debuff cloud really fits with a Pillars rogue either, so I didn't vote yes to that either.

 

Graze to miss are only about Reflex defense :-

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Elric Galad

Elric Galad

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Posted (edited)

Anyway, just a few buffs to some of these abilities would make these classes ok.

 

Basically, Riposte and the strikes for the Rogue (Feign Death would be nice too) and barbaric shouts and ultimate abilities would be ok, maybe thick-skinned too...

 

These changes are rather easy to implement, I guess.

 

One Stands Alone seems to be praised too but I suppose it would require a bit deeper rework. There is currently an item that boost you when you don't have allies around. This one could be a basis for a rework and would fit the theme too.

 

Currently, I have trouble to pick 8 abilities that I'm happy to choose...

Edited by Elric Galad
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MaxQuest

MaxQuest

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's interesting to see how Riposte got 10 votes out of 10 atm.

 

Also the discrepancy between Barbaric Yell (8/10) and Barbaric Shout (5/10).

Edited by MaxQuest
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FlintlockJazz

FlintlockJazz

Posted
Posted

I totally got the wrong idea when I saw the thread title.  Expected to find pictures of people polishing Barbarians and Rogues.   I have to admit, I'm a bit... disappointed this wasn't the case.

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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

Posted
Posted

Good thread. Barbarian need all theses modifications !^^

 

Particulary : echoing shout, one stand alone, dragon leap, heart of the fury.

 

I know rogue a little bit less. So, I don't vote (never play rogue).

 

Its interesting to know why ? Rogue, its too difficult to play for attack only one person. I don't like this class for this reason.

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Elric Galad

Elric Galad

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Good thread. Barbarian need all theses modifications !^^

 

Particulary : echoing shout, one stand alone, dragon leap, heart of the fury.

 

 

Do you realize that the 4 changes you name are almost a carbon copy of your proposal on another thread ? :-

 

I've only changed the AoE of One Stand Alone and Dragon Leap Prone duration you proposed.

 

You Pseudonym is quoted on the original thread on Character build Subforum, sorry not to have done the same here.

Edited by Elric Galad
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hilfazer

hilfazer

Posted
Posted

I couldn't vote for One Stand Alone change because it would boost Carnage and barbarian needs to be cured from his one trick ponyness.

 

In the original thread i explained why current OSA + Heart of the Storm is not a problem.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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Blunderboss

Blunderboss

Posted
Posted (edited)

Riposte - Needs To Be 25% of All attacks Misses ,Grazes,Hits maybe not crits

Shadowing Beyond - 1 or 2 Per Encounter

Escape - use Cape of the Cheat all day , it has to be atleast 2 per encounter to make it worth it or im just using the cape lol

Withering/Fearsome change i agree would be very nice ,

Feign Death / Shadow Step these abilities needs tuning , Feign Death u should be able to wake up whenever u want to , Shadow Step needs to work with Backstab

other new abilities i havent used much/enough to say anything

 

Edit : Oh and we forgeting poor old Blinding Strike is it still 1 per encounter compared to Hobbling Strike 2 per encounter , i never chose blinding strike in 3 rogue playtroughs .

Edited by Blunderboss
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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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Posted (edited)

I couldn't vote for One Stand Alone change because it would boost Carnage and barbarian needs to be cured from his one trick ponyness.

 

In the original thread i explained why current OSA + Heart of the Storm is not a problem.

 

 

At the origins, a talent increase your potential... So increase carnage its normal. Here its not the case. Actually OSA is practically never activate. So you see +20 % damage but in reality it doesn't work.

 

The developpers surely thought about it as something to boost activate on big battles. Or, if you prone one guy of the group, the barbarian doesn't activate the power. The red arrow also be inactive in certain circumstances, yet it is surrounded, and the threat is present.

Edited by theBalthazar
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hilfazer

hilfazer

Posted
Posted

 

I couldn't vote for One Stand Alone change because it would boost Carnage and barbarian needs to be cured from his one trick ponyness.

 

In the original thread i explained why current OSA + Heart of the Storm is not a problem.

 

 

At the origins, a talent increase your potential... So increase carnage its normal.

 

 

But potential increase from OSA always happens when you can also put carnage to good use. Both talents are about fighting multiple opponents.

 

Barbarians need more potential in scenarios when Carnage is not useful.

They also need a buff to talents that do not depend on INT.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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