Remarkable episode. No boobs were shown and no one was killed.

Benjen showed up. That's something. That is a revelation I hope is a bit different in the books, but that is mostly because it is one of the easier explanations for Benjen. It seems too easy. I expected the episode to be a bit humdrum for setup for any upcoming mayhem.

Edited May 30, 20169 yr by Ganrich

Remarkable episode. No boobs were shown and no one was killed.

It's official. GoT writers have lost their way. I want my murderboobs!

Benjen showed up. That's something. That is a revelation I hope is a bit different in the books, but that is mostly because it is one of the easier explanations for Benjen. It seems too easy. I expected the episode to be a bit humdrum for setup for any upcoming mayhem.

 

GRRM stated flat out that Benjen is not Coldhands because we have seen a ADWD manuscript page with Martin's and his editor's notes where that question was asked:

 

 

Leaf also stated that Coldhands was killed "a long time ago" and for a Child it seems odd that it would be a ranger who died fairly recently, given their lifespan.

 

Not that I trust that resounding "No" here any more than I trust Leaf's words. Plus, why else would the show pull out Benjen after 6 years (with the same actor to boot)? Questions, questions...

 

I almost didn't recognize Brutus though. For a moment I thought they swapped him for Faramir.

I want to see Sam Tarly die like that fattie in the beginning of Seven.

 

 

Benjen showed up. That's something. That is a revelation I hope is a bit different in the books, but that is mostly because it is one of the easier explanations for Benjen. It seems too easy. I expected the episode to be a bit humdrum for setup for any upcoming mayhem.

GRRM stated flat out that Benjen is not Coldhands because we have seen a ADWD manuscript page with Martin's and his editor's notes where that question was asked:

 

 

Leaf also stated that Coldhands was killed "a long time ago" and for a Child it seems odd that it would be a ranger who died fairly recently, given their lifespan.

 

Not that I trust that resounding "No" here any more than I trust Leaf's words. Plus, why else would the show pull out Benjen after 6 years (with the same actor to boot)? Questions, questions...

 

I almost didn't recognize Brutus though. For a moment I thought they swapped him for Faramir.

Yup. I've seen those arguments, and don't disagree. I do, however, find them somewhat flimsy. I don't trust Martin to be honest (or any author when questioned about things of that nature), and the "long ago" statement is vague. However, they are the only hope I hold for something more interesting.

 

I always liked the Benjen is the hooded man in Winterfell theory. Seemed cooler to me.

The Ringer's scouting report on Uncle Benjen.

 

 

Unselfish with the rock but juiced on Obsidian.

Oh btw everyone this is the best character, just letting you know:

 

I didn't like the track they took with Arya. In the book she completed her assignment and "joined up" so to speak. But I guess it makes sense. Book Arya is wearing a new face now and they are not about to write Maise Williams out of the show... yet

I didn't like the track they took with Arya. In the book she completed her assignment and "joined up" so to speak. But I guess it makes sense. Book Arya is wearing a new face now and they are not about to write Maise Williams out of the show... yet

The past season or two has screwed up a few characters.

 

Stannis would definitely sacrifice Shireen under certain circumstances, but it would have to be much more dire. Like if the wall was falling, and the Others were about to cross. One of the better strategic commanders in Westeros wouldn't do it to defeat the Boltons.

 

Littlefinger had access to a Stark that was once married to Tyrion. Tyrion never bed her, and her innocence could have been proven. This would destroy any claim the lannisters had on Winterfell. Little finger is too smart to hand Sansa over to Ramsay Bolton. Especially given Ramsay's reputation. TV show Little finger just gave the Lannisters claim on Winterfell because now Sands can't prove who did the deed with her. She would be locked into marriage with Tyrion. It's stupid.

 

There are a few more, but those two irk me the most.

I didn't like the track they took with Arya. In the book she completed her assignment and "joined up" so to speak. But I guess it makes sense. Book Arya is wearing a new face now and they are not about to write Maise Williams out of the show... yet

 

There's a theory going around that Jaqen is actually testing Arya and the Waif. The theory is that by sparing Lady Crane, Arya has somehow shown the right level-headed mentality expected of a Faceless Man, showing that while she was ruthless with Meryn Trant, she's also capable of calming her wrath and showing mercy, aka it's an improvement from her last mission, but what remains to be tested is her actual proficiency as an assassin and he skills at killing. Meanwhile, the Waif has proven capable in combat, but has failed to show the correct mentality in that for example, she desires to see Arya die, and attempts to let that personal desire cross into her work.

 

 

The two are being pit against each other. If Arya kills the Waif and lives, she's proven her combat proficiency and therefore passes. If the Waif were to honor Jaqen's wish and show Arya some degree of mercy, she's passing her test by proving she can uphold the ideals of the Faceless Men aswell.

 

If this theory proves true, then we may see Jaqen approach Arya once again after the fight, ready to provide her with aid.

I'd say that's just wishful thinking, but with D&D you never know. The Faceless Men don't work that way, once a contract is signed, the assassination is carried out. There is no mercy for the victim because death is the mercy the Faceless Men bring. They're much more a religious order than an assassin's guild, also seen in the way the negotiate a price for their services.

 

But yeah, that might work for the show.

I have started watching this season and its good but the creation of the Others seemed like an anti-climax?

 

 

So it was the children who created them to defeat humans? But why did they go against the children and who is the leader of Others? 

I'm with Majestic. Arya has left for good. It makes no sense because she is on the wrong side of the ocean and now has no friends. The faceless men are not pansies. In AGoT Petyr Baelish told Ned Stark about Dany "I did more to save her life than you with all your prating about honor. If we'd sent a Faceless Man after her she would be as good as buried."

 

But book Arya & show Arya are different people. And GRRM does not have to worry about recasting a part with a very popular actress in it.

 

If book Stannis sacrificed Shireen it would have less of an impact. Shireen was less developed on the page than on the screen and Stannis never culitvated any kind of relationship with her like he did on the show.

 

Littlefinger is one of my favorite charachters on both the page & screen but I do like book Petyr better. He's smarter, less creepy and definitely playing a "long game". 

I got banned from the GoT subreddit for explaining to someone that Tommen will die due to a prophecy involving some old frog, a princess and "magic or prophecy or some BS like that" before linking him this picture as my source of information.

 

 

It's a good thing forums have moderators to keep innocent people away from monsters like me.

The faceless men are a bit poorly explained I think, even in the books.

First Littlefinger says how the Seven Kingdoms would go bankrupt if they hired a faceless man. Later we're told they want something precious to the customer in exchange (at least that's what I remember, feel free to correct me). And now we have a jealous actress. What could she give up, her acting career?

Maybe this guy is overanalyzing but did enjoy his take on the faceless men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkdMGgh87nw

"TV show Little finger just gave the Lannisters claim on Winterfell because now Sands can't prove who did the deed with her. She would be locked into marriage with Tyrion. It's stupid."

 

Uh.  Nah. The Lannisters can't prove Sansa would be carrying Tyrion's baby.  It wouldn't work. Mind you, it was still stupid and/or igornant to simply hand her over to the Bol,tons though.

Isn't he putting her in danger so he can convince Robyn Arryn to save his cousin? and have a 'legitimite' reason to bring the the Vale into the northern conflict?
 

Of course the fact that he never told Sansa this kinda threw a wrench into his plans - but I'm sure he'll turn that to his advantage anyway.

"TV show Little finger just gave the Lannisters claim on Winterfell because now Sands can't prove who did the deed with her. She would be locked into marriage with Tyrion. It's stupid."

 

Uh.  Nah. The Lannisters can't prove Sansa would be carrying Tyrion's baby.  It wouldn't work. Mind you, it was still stupid and/or igornant to simply hand her over to the Bol,tons though.

Evidence of sex, or lack there of, proves whether the marriage was consummated or not. Sansa has now been married twice without proving Tyrion didn't consummate it. It is convoluted and messy. Since she was still married to Tyrion she should default back to him. You don't have to be with child to still be legally married to someone. It was a rotten decision on the TV show. Keeping her hidden until Tyrion is dead, and the Boltons are weak (or dead) is the play here. Just like the books. Then he could ally with her, and have a friend with power in the north, force her marry him and control even more of Westeros, etc, etc. He gains almost nothing by marrying her off to the Boltons.

 

Also, @Guard Dog, the emotional impact of book Stannis sacrificing her is irrelevant. Stannis isn't a POV character. So we have no way of knowing his feelings. I definitely think he cares for his daughter, but is unable to show it. He is borderline autistic. However, I always suspected that her sacrifice (if it happens) is his wife and Mel conspiring while he is away. i also could see him doing it as a last resort as his duty to the realm. Doing it to win a battle in the midst of Northmen isn't going to win him favors with them. He is trying to get them to recognize his right to rule Westeros. Burning his own child alive isn't going to do that.

 

Also, @Guard Dog, the emotional impact of book Stannis sacrificing her is irrelevant. Stannis isn't a POV character. So we have no way of knowing his feelings. 

 

Excellent point. 

 

Also, @Guard Dog, the emotional impact of book Stannis sacrificing her is irrelevant. Stannis isn't a POV character. So we have no way of knowing his feelings.

 

Excellent point.

Thank you. I would like to add that Stannis scoured the globe trying to cure Shireen of greyscale. He either has the same sense of duty with his family, or he cares a fair deal about her. Probably both. He just is incapable of showing that he does care. It goes back to why he doesn't inspire loyalty. He is almost a robot.

 

Also, I do doubt her sacrifice happening in the books. She has greyscale for a plot reason. It is possible it has a plot point tied to the Others or even the undead characters as a whole. The same can be said of those other characters that have it in both tv and book series. EG - Connington/Jorah Mormont. It likely will cause some kind of outbreak, or have some other ramification.

 

It could cause its ramifications after her death, I guess. That would be neat. Stannis does it out of a misguided duty to save the realm, but possibly dooms the realm as a byproduct. I like reading about Stannis. He is an interesting character.

 

I really wish the next book was out already. I've too many book series I'm waiting on being finished.

Plus she is not with Stannis to be sacrificed. One of two things happened. If Ramsay wrote the pink letter then Stannis lost at Winterfell and is dead. If he didn't then Stannis won and is alive. I think Mance Rayder wrote the letter because h referenced Val & the baby. Ramsay could not know about either of them. Whoever wrote that letter was at Castle Black recently.  

 

 

I have a new rule, I won't read any book from a series until the series is done. 

Edited June 5, 20169 yr by Guard Dog

Plus she is not with Stannis to be sacrificed. One of two things happened. If Ramsay wrote the pink letter then Stannis lost at Winterfell and is dead. If he didn't then Stannis won and is alive. I think Mance Rayder wrote the letter because h referenced Val & the baby. Ramsay could not know about either of them. Whoever wrote that letter was at Castle Black recently.

 

 

I have a new rule, I won't read any book from a series until the series is done.

Yes, but one of the spearwives helped Theon and FArya escape. She was killed IIRC. So, Ramsay may know based on Mance's company. We will see, though. I'm not sure on the pink letter, but I believe Stannis is alive.

 

I can't stop myself from reading unfinished series. At least Jim Butcher keeps Dresden coming. I am waiting for the 3rd Kingkiller book, and a few others too. I am sad.