US Elections 2016

[BruceVC]

I found him to be quite boring.

I can possibly see that but I still think he makes loads of sense, like when he says " we can't become a society that lives in fear" 

 

Somehow I can imagine him sending refugees to an island 

[Hiro Protagonist]

 

Somehow I can imagine him sending refugees to an island 

 

That's good to hear.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

I am not sure if your logic actually holds water, or is this one of those cases that is in effect only when you support those that are in power?

 

So Elerond hear me out for a second as you are logical,  watch this interview and tell me what you think about Trudeau

 

http://wn.com/justin_trudeau_cnn_interview_in_davos_for_fareed_zakaria_gps

 

 

Tell me what you think about Putin that won Russian election with wider margin?

 

Well to be fair its a really bad analogy as the two people are so different and achieved political leadership through such different strategies ..but its also a good question as I can make a relevant comparison

 

So Putin has an excellent approval rating, 80-85 % so some may immediately say " Putin is a great leader as the Russian people really support him "..but what if I told you in fact what really matters in a great leader is what price and sacrifice was needed to be paid by the country ...by the actual citizens ? This must be considered when we compare the 2 men

 

Putin restored Russian pride but neglected the internal economy. The failure to diversify outside of oil of gas for Russia wasn't just about Putin's lack of focus but also the fact in order to control Russia and its growth he has discouraged many types of investors as Russia is seen as a risk

 

But this would have negligible if the oil price hadn't crashed, then add to that Western sanctions for the violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and suddenly Russia is in a recession ....like a real protracted recession. You can research how bad it is ....its bad because Russia needs the oil price to be at $90-110  to make it profitable to extract  oil

 

So life in Russia has become hard for the average Russian citizen

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2015/01/04/what-will-russias-recession-look-like/#25742d8e40e8

 

http://www.euronews.com/2016/02/03/russian-recession-set-to-deepen-says-central-bank/

 

And there is no easy fix. I have seen this same thing throughout Africa and it can take years to resolve because there is NO appetite for people to invest in Russia 

 

Trudeau won by less and is less well liked but would he neglect growing the Canadian economy outside of oil just so he can push a military agenda ? Highly unlikely

 

So I'll let you decide Who is the better leader ? 

[Elerond]

Well to be fair its a really bad analogy as the two people are so different and achieved political leadership through such different strategies ..but its also a good question as I can make a relevant comparison

 

So Putin has an excellent approval rating, 80-85 % so some may immediately say " Putin is a great leader as the Russian people really support him "..but what if I told you in fact what really matters in a great leader is what price and sacrifice was needed to be paid by the country ...by the actual citizens ? This must be considered when we compare the 2 men

 

Putin restored Russian pride but neglected the internal economy. The failure to diversify outside of oil of gas for Russia wasn't just about Putin's lack of focus but also the fact in order to control Russia and its growth he has discouraged many types of investors as Russia is seen as a risk

 

But this would have negligible if the oil price hadn't crashed, then add to that Western sanctions for the violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and suddenly Russia is in a recession ....like a real protracted recession. You can research how bad it is ....its bad because Russia needs the oil price to be at $90-110  to make it profitable to extract  oil

 

So life in Russia has become hard for the average Russian citizen

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2015/01/04/what-will-russias-recession-look-like/#25742d8e40e8

 

http://www.euronews.com/2016/02/03/russian-recession-set-to-deepen-says-central-bank/

 

And there is no easy fix. I have seen this same thing throughout Africa and it can take years to resolve because there is NO appetite for people to invest in Russia 

 

Trudeau won by less and is less well liked but would he neglect growing the Canadian economy outside of oil just so he can push a military agenda ? Highly unlikely

 

So I'll let you decide Who is the better leader ?

 

So do you think that Russians who criticize/don't like Putin are unpatriotic people that don't like their home country as they opposite view of majority? 

 

As my point was that you logic "No because you are dismissing the views of large numbers  of Canadians, Trudeau won a majority. In other words why do you feel you are better than all those people? I would still say its unpatriotic and very arrogant" don't necessary hold water if you example put it in following way "No because you are dismissing the views of large numbers  of Russians, Putin won a majority. In other words why do you feel you are better than all those people? I would still say its unpatriotic and very arrogant", and therefore I asked if you actually ably it to every case or only those where winners of elections have similar world view with you?

Edited February 8, 2016 by Elerond

[BruceVC]

 

Well to be fair its a really bad analogy as the two people are so different and achieved political leadership through such different strategies ..but its also a good question as I can make a relevant comparison

 

So Putin has an excellent approval rating, 80-85 % so some may immediately say " Putin is a great leader as the Russian people really support him "..but what if I told you in fact what really matters in a great leader is what price and sacrifice was needed to be paid by the country ...by the actual citizens ? This must be considered when we compare the 2 men

 

Putin restored Russian pride but neglected the internal economy. The failure to diversify outside of oil of gas for Russia wasn't just about Putin's lack of focus but also the fact in order to control Russia and its growth he has discouraged many types of investors as Russia is seen as a risk

 

But this would have negligible if the oil price hadn't crashed, then add to that Western sanctions for the violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and suddenly Russia is in a recession ....like a real protracted recession. You can research how bad it is ....its bad because Russia needs the oil price to be at $90-110  to make it profitable to extract  oil

 

So life in Russia has become hard for the average Russian citizen

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2015/01/04/what-will-russias-recession-look-like/#25742d8e40e8

 

http://www.euronews.com/2016/02/03/russian-recession-set-to-deepen-says-central-bank/

 

And there is no easy fix. I have seen this same thing throughout Africa and it can take years to resolve because there is NO appetite for people to invest in Russia 

 

Trudeau won by less and is less well liked but would he neglect growing the Canadian economy outside of oil just so he can push a military agenda ? Highly unlikely

 

So I'll let you decide Who is the better leader ?

 

So do you think that Russians who criticize/don't like Putin are unpatriotic people that don't like their home country as they opposite view of majority? 

 

As my point was that you logic "No because you are dismissing the views of large numbers  of Canadians, Trudeau won a majority. In other words why do you feel you are better than all those people? I would still say its unpatriotic and very arrogant" don't necessary hold water if you example put it in following way "No because you are dismissing the views of large numbers  of Russians, Putin won a majority. In other words why do you feel you are better than all those people? I would still say its unpatriotic and very arrogant", and therefore I asked if you actually ably it to every case or only those where winners of elections have similar world view with you?

 

Okay I understand the question now....thank goodness that post I made  can still be used

 

Putins support around  80 % approval ratings is not based on a proper metric or rather it misplaced support for Putin because of most Russians they see Putin as a hero, they see him as restoring Russian pride...yet as I explained Putin has in fact sacrificed the economy. Now many Russians accept this as price to pay for Georgia. Crimea and Ukraine. They think its worth the economic sacrifice

 

But its not, Putin is using foreign  reserves to shield the economic impact from hitting Russia in its worst way. I predict Russia has about 2-3 years left  before being bankrupt. Even Iran who really hated the West after 5 years of sanctions returned to the negotiations. The support for Putin and his foreign policies will also start being eroded once the economy starts really getting bad....you see without an economy whats the real point of patriotism? 

 

And this applies to the 20 % who don't support Putin...its not about patriotism. They see what Putin has done , its a rejection of a damaging force 

You cannot compare  the Russian reality to Canada who has some of the happiest citizens in the world and is a first world Democracy. Canada works so when there is a majority victory in some elections you must realize its from people who voted for Trudeau because they think he offers the best and overall most progressive future 

 

Its a vote done for the right reasons ...not  because they believe Canada needs to restore an old empire 

 

So yes when someone like Volo turns around and says Trudeau is some sort of dysfunctional, weak fool its a baseless and arrogant comment

[Guard Dog]

This is what I'm talking about. Don't try to sound libertarian when you're not. It just makes you look like a jacakss. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/07/cruz-still-pitching-for-libertarian-votes-has-a-lot-to-say-about-eminent-domain-and-sound-money/

 

For those of you who have been reading my posts you know what I think of Eminent Domain. In fact I firmly believe the five liberal justices who sided with the city of New London should have been dragged from the SCOTUS building at the end of a rope and hung in front to the Jefferson Memorial. But in Cruz's case you can't be against ID to build a shopping mall and then for it to build a oil pipeline. And what the hell is this backhanded comment about tying the dollar to gold? Does he not know that genie escaped the bottle in the f-----g 60s? That isn't going to be possible.

 

I think a primary qualification to be President should be to actually KNOW something about economics. Which of course disqualifies everyone currently running. I also think they should have a consistent set of values and opinions that they STICK to. But that would disqualify everyone but Bernie.

 

I'd go on Amazon and send Ted Cruz all of Thomas Sowell's books if I thought he'd actually read them. It's a shame because he should. Especially if he ends up becoming president.

[Amentep]

Does seem to be a bit contradictory in statements there.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Amentep

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Sanders economic plan seems good according to one economist.

 

 

We need more memes in this thread.

[ShadySands]

Slick Willy is on the attack but let's focus on more important things like this hard hitting piece from journalistic juggernauts Elite Daily

[Elerond]

http://www.dailydot.com/geek/captain-america-civil-war-politics-bernie-sanders/

 

Sander's campaign seem to understand young voters way other campaigns don't and that may work well for them as usually young voters participation in elections is quite low so there is lots of untapped potential if you get them interested.

[Leferd]

Well, the youth vote carried the Obama election in '08. Doubt it's going to reach the same level with turnout.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Leferd

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, if it had carried him to a decent victory in Iowa, I'd be feeling a little more optimistic, but even there, turnout was pretty low...hoping for the best, expecting the worst.

[Wrath of Dagon]

...Megyn Kelly, she is smoking hot by the way...

Once again proving your total lack of judgment.

 

Sanders at a Stalinist kibbutz: https://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2016/02/06/bernies-adventures-on-a-stalinist-kibbutz/

 

Yes, there was such a thing.

[Volourn]

"No because you are dismissing the views of large numbers  of Canadians, Trudeau won a majority. In other words why do you feel you are better than all those people? I would still say its unpatriotic and very arrogant"

 

Since when is 39% of people voting for him the 'majority'? LMAO That means 61% did NOT vote for him. Not to mention the 20-30% of eligble voters who also diodn't vote for him.

 

It is arrogant and unpatriotic of you to believe that one has to vote for the 'winner' to patriotic'. YOU and other slike you are being arrogant to assume because I don't think Trudeau that means I'm being unpatriotic. I didn't vote for him because I actually like my country. LMAO

 

 

"I can possibly see that but I still think he makes loads of sense, like when he says " we can't become a society that lives in fear""
 

Except his entire campaign was based on fearmongering. L0L

Edited February 9, 2016 by Volourn

[Oerwinde]

"No because you are dismissing the views of large numbers of Canadians, Trudeau won a majority. In other words why do you feel you are better than all those people? I would still say its unpatriotic and very arrogant"

 

Since when is 39% of people voting for him the 'majority'? LMAO That means 61% did NOT vote for him. Not to mention the 20-30% of eligble voters who also diodn't vote for him.

 

It is arrogant and unpatriotic of you to believe that one has to vote for the 'winner' to patriotic'. YOU and other slike you are being arrogant to assume because I don't think Trudeau that means I'm being unpatriotic. I didn't vote for him because I actually like my country. LMAO

 

 

"I can possibly see that but I still think he makes loads of sense, like when he says " we can't become a society that lives in fear""

 

Except his entire campaign was based on fearmongering. L0L

The campaigns were pretty much

 

Liberals: We're cool and optimistic, look at all the stuff we want to give you!

 

NDP: Mulcair is cool and normal, not at all creepy, our seat count is higher than the liberals, and therefore you should vote for us.

 

Conservative: If you don't vote for us you will lose your job and the country will collapse and the Liberals will steal all your money.

 

Only one of those was fear mongering.

[Volourn]

Please, ity was more like: Liberals: A vote for Conservatives will destroy our country and will make you slaves.Harper is just another Hitler and is  racist and sexist and will mass murder a bunch of Muslims and force women into being housewives for all eternity. And, he eats babies.

 

Sounds like fearmongering to me.

 

L0L

[Guard Dog]

I am going to build a time machine, go back to 1914 and shoot Hitler while he's riding his bicycle around delivering messages in the army. To say nothing of the other benefits that will have at least then we can get through an election cycle without hearing about a modern politician who has never and would never order the gassing of anyone to Hitler!

[Barothmuk]

I am going to build a time machine, go back to 1914 and shoot Hitler while he's riding his bicycle around delivering messages in the army. To say nothing of the other benefits that will have at least then we can get through an election cycle without hearing about a modern politician who has never and would never order the gassing of anyone to Hitler!

I agree with this sentiment.

 

Personally it annoys me because it implies any political fault must be part of some external problem or corrupting force, i.e. liberals or conservatives can't be bad in of themselves - they're actually becoming fascist!

 

That said I do disagree with this:

 

politician who has never and would never order the gassing of anyone

I did just sit through a Republican debate where they were discussing bringing in even greater "enhanced interrogation techniques". Plus I wouldn't put anything past Ms. Clinton. Edited February 9, 2016 by Barothmuk

[ShadySands]

[Rostere]

 

...Megyn Kelly, she is smoking hot by the way...

Once again proving your total lack of judgment.

 

Sanders at a Stalinist kibbutz: https://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2016/02/06/bernies-adventures-on-a-stalinist-kibbutz/

 

Yes, there was such a thing.

 

The large majority of all kibbutzes were socialist (since socialism was sort of inherent to the spirit of the movement) and the one Sanders was at was not very noteworthy politically speaking. Also, it is important to think about what "Stalinist" means in this context, you have got to understand that there were a lot of people in other countries who sympathized with the Soviet Union, unlike in the US where it was always implicitly assumed that the Soviet Union was evil. At the time the existence of Gulags and the extent of repression in the Soviet Union was viewed as a conspiracy theory by many, or otherwise explained away as not being very serious. These people were not more evil than Americans who supported the Vietnam War in spite of the terror bombing of Hanoi, the massacre at My Lai and so on. So these people might have been supporters of the Soviet Union under Stalin without actually supporting Gulag camps et.c..

 

A lot of Republicans were probably Nixon supporters back in the day. That doesn't mean that they support the subversion of democracy. Similarly, a former Stalinist (if we assume Sanders was actually 100% politically in line with his kibbutz) probably does not support the obviously bad stuff Stalin did, neither then nor now, but their own image of what the SU was like.

 

Also, there are a lot of frankly, completely bizarre stuff written in the article you  linked to.

 

"But [Noam Chomsky] admired their commitment to a binational state and their efforts to create “Arab-Jewish working-class cooperation” and a “socialist binationalist Palestine.” A binational state would in effect have meant the end of Israel as a Jewish state."

 

I think everyone can agree that if they has succeeded in creating “Arab-Jewish working-class cooperation” and a “socialist binationalist Palestine.” the world would be better off than it is today.

 

But this is probably the worst:

 

"[Nathan Guttman from the Forward] argues that while from today’s perspective Sanders' history on the kibbutz may seem damning, it did not at the time, because all Zionists know that Hashomer Hatzair made worthwhile contributions to the building of Israel, especially in the “pre-state Zionist military force, the Haganah,” as well as its shock troops, the Palmach."

 

So Sanders visiting a communist kibbutz would have been damning, if not for the fact that said communists enlisted in the Zionist military? Apparently the important issue at hand is not whether Sanders was a Communist or not, but whether he was a Zionist or not. Frankly, that's absurd, but I guess it's US priorities in a nutshell.

 

Anyways, read some comments from the other side of the political spectrum here.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Rostere

[Guard Dog]

The polls are closed in NH. So far Trump & Sanders are looking like big winners. Trump is leading Kasich by 16% and Sanders is leading Clinton by 11%. But still along way to go.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Sanders wins NH, prepare for assblasted Hillary shills.

[Malcador]

Sanders' fans are about as insufferable I am finding. Rather amused at his speech right now.

[Guard Dog]

He didn't just win he won big. Impressive actually. I was just watching CNN (aka the Clinton News Network) and I thought Donna Braziles head was going to explode. Hillary absolutely MUST have south Carolina now or she is in trouble.

[Guard Dog]

Trump won big but that was no surprise. He's been leading in all the polls. Kasich coming in 2nd is a surprise.