Attack speed 2.0

[Boeroer]

Supergood. We should ask a mod to put this resumed infos into a sticky post - right under the character build index. It's so helpful!

[MaxQuest]

Aren't Itumaak stats supposed to be exactly the same as wolf ? I was surprised by the 15 dex from your testing.

Well he's a fox So it kind of fits him. But, iirc, he has a lower Con.

 

Supergood. We should ask a mod to put this resumed infos into a sticky post - right under the character build index. It's so helpful!

I was thinking to aggregate all the findings in a separate thread. But few more testings have to be done first.

Also, I still don't know where does the inter-action delay come from.

 

---- update ----

 

Posted it here.

Edited May 7, 2016 by MaxQuest

[dunehunter]

30 frames means 1 seconds right?

[MaxQuest]

^ At 30 fps and normal game speed, it does.

[rwendi]

Hi, Sorry for asking this. But would like to confirm if I dual wield two weapons with 20% attack speed, will they stack? so I get 40% attack speed increase?

[Kaylon]

Hi, Sorry for asking this. But would like to confirm if I dual wield two weapons with 20% attack speed, will they stack? so I get 40% attack speed increase?

No, they affect only their respective weapon.

[rwendi]

So a dagger with 20% attack speed, the attack time will be 0.532 and recovery time of 0.444 (dual wield)?

[MaxQuest]

It gonna have 0.666s attack_duration and 0.444s recovery_duration. Provided it's at 10 Dex and there are no other speed buffs.

Edited May 9, 2016 by MaxQuest

[MasterCipher]

Weapon Base Speed Speed Modified Dex MIG Dam Mod Dam Avg base Dam Avg modified DPS hasted Dam modified Sabre DW Rog 1.833333333 0.667742972 32 28 549% 32 208 311 Sabre DW Rng 1.833333333 0.651163599 31 29 527% 32 201 308 Sabre DW Bar 1.833333333 0.637076305 32 30 490% 32 189 296 Blunderbuss Rng 9 2.610641232 32 28 409% 45 229 88 Pet Stag 4.721 4.444549057 12 17 246% 13 43 10

 

Playing in Excel I added damage columns to MaxQuest's data with optimal damage/speed talents, abilities, gear (legendary annihilation sabre x2 via wax mold), and buffs. DR and accuracy is not considered, and every hit is assumed a crit. However, I'm not confident in the pet dps because I guessed at its base damage.

 

In practice I think Rogue will have top raw DPS with highest accuracy (+8 above Ranger from Relentless Assault) and given conditions needed for Barb and Ranger damage modifers like vengeful grief, heart of fury (where priest casts extend duration for the +25% damage modifer), stalkers link, marked prey, bloodied, one stands alone etc. Barbs still have there place with survivability, passive sicken aura, and spellchance/crit weapon carnage. Rangers have an exploitable pet with endless health and I *think* binding roots still has a range of 20m, which makes it uniquely suited for simplifying difficult encounters. 

 

Grr, my table insert looked good up until clicking submit

Edited May 11, 2016 by MasterCipher

[Braven]

Did you consider weapon lashes? I found that paladin and monk had more peak damage. I did a double purgatory saber monk with a bunch of stacking lashes effects and it did more single target DPS then a rogue (and had better survivaliblity). The downside is it takes some setup to get there.

 

All classes have different advantages and drawbacks for DPS, so it is hard to give a clean cut answer. I am not sure I could say that any one class is clearly the best. Every one would have caveats.

[MasterCipher]

Could use some help double checking my math. Goal is 0 weapon recovery without much going over much. Base recovery is the part I'm least certain on.

 

attack speed: the unlabored blade, durganized saber, outlander's frenzy

armor: durganized padded

melee speed: vulnerable attack

two weapon: duel wield talent

dex: 21

 

weapon "haste" = (1.2*1.15*1.25) - 0.05 - 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.33 = 1.005

weapon recovery = baseRecovery - haste = 1 - 1.005 = -0.005 rounded up to 0 since there's no benefit for negative value. 

[MaxQuest]

For main hand (with unlabored blade):

spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier + DW + TWFighting + MeleeAttackSpeedMultiplier(VulnAttack) + ArmorSpeedFactor
spd_coef = (1.2 * 1.25 - 1) + 0.5 + (1.2 - 1) + (0.8 - 1) + (0.8 + 0.15 - 1) = 0.5 + 0.5 - 0.05 = 0.95 (or 1.95 old style)
rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.95) = 0.05
dex_coef = 1 + (21 - 10) / 33.3 = 1.33

(in frames)
base_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 20 (attack duration) + 33 (recovery duration) 
new_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 20 (attack duration) + 1.65 (recovery duration) 
new_action (dagger) (21 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 15 (attack duration) + 1.24 (recovery duration) 

---

For off hand (with durganized saber):

spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier + DW + TWFighting + MeleeAttackSpeedMultiplier(VulnAttack) + ArmorSpeedFactor
spd_coef = (1.15 * 1.25 - 1) + 0.5 + (1.2 - 1) + (0.8 - 1) - (0.8 + 0.15 - 1) = 0.43 + 0.5 - 0.05 = 0.88 (or 1.88 old style)
rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.88) = 0.12
dex_coef = 1 + (21 - 10) / 33.3 = 1.33

(in frames)
base_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 30 (attack duration) + 50 (recovery duration) 
new_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 30 (attack duration) + 6 (recovery duration) 
new_action (dagger) (21 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 22.5 (attack duration) + 4.5 (recovery duration) Edited June 4, 2016 by MaxQuest

[MasterCipher]

Thank your for the quick reply! I had to stare at this for awhile, but the math makes sense to me now.

[MaxQuest]

Glad to hear that)

It indeed can be confusing...

[MasterCipher]

spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier + DW + TWFighting + MeleeAttackSpeedMultiplier(VulnAttack) + ArmorSpeedFactor

 

Is the DW value for a single weapon 0, and is it the same for 2 handed weapons?

Is the DW value for a and weapon+shield also 0?

[MaxQuest]

^ It's an additional coefficient that is added only if you dual-wield and do NOT hold a shield.

[Elric Galad]

Stupid question MaxQuest : how does full attacks work for attack time and recovery time ?

 

I suppose it is faster than 2 attacks (no recovery between the 2 attacks) but it's hard to figure how much.

[MaxQuest]

^ It's not stupid at all.

 

From what I know at the moment:

- if you perform full-attack with dual-weapons, the recovery between two strikes is indeed skipped. 

- you can perform full-attack only by using an ability. And in that case an array of speed effecting stuff does not apply. Specifically: DualWieldAttackSpeedMultiplier (those extra 0.5 if you DW), Single1HWeapRecovFactor (the bonus from durganized shield), MeleeAttackSpeedMultiplier (TWF talent) and RangedAttackSpeedMultiplier (i.e. malus from Penetrating Shot).

- Dex, AttackSpeedMultiplier, RateOfFireMultiplier and ArmorSpeedFactor still apply.

[Elric Galad]

So you get a free Vulnerable attack too ? Good to know.

 

Does it even depends on the weapon type ? (same for dagger and speed)

[Boeroer]

Good to know!

 

What about Riposte? It's an ability and does a Full Attack - but it's triggered passively while you do other stuff like running around. I think there's no animation whatsoever (it would totally mess with the walking/attacking animation that's played at that moment) - so I guess none of the speed/recovery rules apply? It just does two attack rolls and damage numbers pop up - that's it, right? Like with disengagement attacks?

[MaxQuest]

So you get a free Vulnerable attack too ? Good to know.

Seems so.

 

Does it even depends on the weapon type ? (same for dagger and speed)

Yeah, the recovery that follows after the full-attack should depend on the weapon type (i.e. it's base attack duration).

 

The thing is that the NotifyAttackComplete() method, the one responsible for the recovery duration calculation, computes the final recovery coefficient and multiplies it by totalTime which it gets as argument. That totalTime is equal to animation length of the attack phase (post dex).

 

In case of dual-wielding: theoretically totalTime could be the total animation duration for both swings; but it's more likely that instead of one call, that method is invoked twice. Once for first swing (with zero-recovery marker) and than for second swing. And the final recovery is only equal to the recovery of the weapon that hits last (minus those effects that do not apply). But I'd better test what is written in this last paragraph to be sure. 

 

What about Riposte? It's an ability and does a Full Attack - but it's triggered passively while you do other stuff like running around.

Needs testing) Edited June 6, 2016 by MaxQuest

[MasterCipher]

This makes for an interesting prospect: a weapon centric character could dump recovery reducing talents/items and load up on per encounter full attack abilities and have a lot of room for other talents and items.

[Dr <3]

Another quick question: after all, if you are at -80% recovery using dual wield, and in One hand you put a speed weapon (-20% recovery) you get:

A) -100% recovery with both weapons

Or B) -100% recovery with 1 hand and -80% with the other hand?

[MaxQuest]

^ B). Speed enchant does only affect the weapon (hand) it is on.

So you would have -80% on one hand, and -100-138% on the other (depending on what exact speed-increasing stuff did you use).

 

 

This makes for an interesting prospect: a weapon centric character could dump recovery reducing talents/items and load up on per encounter full attack abilities and have a lot of room for other talents and items.

If only there were so many full-attack abilities which you could continue spamming..

Hello Torment's Reach.

[Dr <3]

Tks maxquest!

Apart from monk also the rogue can pile up a good number af full attacks. But monks is clearly better. Anyway good old boeroer already did something similar in his wich doctor build