The Rape of Europe

[Drowsy Emperor]

That's true as well

[Volourn]

"Think it was a bit of hyperbole there."

 

Hyperbole is used to show one's true feelings.

 

 

"And the point was, Volourn, that its sad that Europe cannot raise up its issues with Islam (or countries like Saudi Arabia, where its all coming from) directly, be critical and take a firm stance on its values. Instead its up to fringe elements such as Danish cartoonists and trashy French papers to go all passive-aggressive: take cheap pot shots and provocations, stir the hornet's nest and when the inevitable reaction comes > become "martyrs" for freedom of speech. If insulting their prophet is the best that Europe can do in that cultural dialogue then we're in a sorry state indeed."

 

I have no doubt you don't care if the West is mocked at. Just look at your shurggy attitude above about the jew nazi cartoon. 'That's true as well' is laugh worthy comapred to your early comment where you frothing at the mouth comparing people who may make lame cartoons with mass murderers. HAHAHA!

[Hurlshort]

There are actual limits to freedom of speech (yelling fire in a crowded theater) but quality control is not a part of that.  If you don't think Charlie Hebdo is a good choice as an advocate for this stuff, then you are free to speak your own piece, to publish your own voice.  They don't need to be censored in order to create a better dialogue.  

 

I think I am misunderstanding some of what you are saying though, so maybe I'm off here.

[obyknven]

Meanwhile in Ukraine. Ukrainian butthurt ( because EU prefer African and Middle Eastern migrants ).

[Darkpriest]

Meanwhile in Germany:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/german-town-bans-male-asylum-seekers-public-pools-152516727.html

[Meshugger]

Meanwhile in The Netherlands: https://www.om.nl/actueel/nieuwsberichten/@92678/aanhouding-vanwege/

 

A Dutch guy helped YPG to fight ISIS, killed a few of them, and upon arrival he was arrested for murder. This Europe, fellas. This is our priorities.

[Elerond]

Meanwhile in The Netherlands: https://www.om.nl/actueel/nieuwsberichten/@92678/aanhouding-vanwege/

 

A Dutch guy helped YPG to fight ISIS, killed a few of them, and upon arrival he was arrested for murder. This Europe, fellas. This is our priorities.

 

Making sure that country's own citizens follow its laws is bad? It is quite normal that we don't let people without official authority hunt and especially not kill criminals. Of course we can't talk should there be exception for criminal and terrorist organisations like ISIS and should there be criminal process for crimes that are done outside of country's borders, but then we also need to take account what if for example war criminal comes in the country what then and so on .

[Volourn]

Shouldn't the country that the 'murder' took place be the one trying them. Shouldn't they be deporting the 'murderer' to that country? The logic here is STUPID. Just more nazi bullcrap.

[obyknven]

Meanwhile in The Netherlands: https://www.om.nl/actueel/nieuwsberichten/@92678/aanhouding-vanwege/

 

A Dutch guy helped YPG to fight ISIS, killed a few of them, and upon arrival he was arrested for murder. This Europe, fellas. This is our priorities.

It's because of civil war in Turkey, just democracy realpolitiks. EU and Turkey exterminate Kurds together.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3327550/First-Briton-convicted-trying-join-fight-AGAINST-ISIS.html#ixzz3xOT8hlB6

A Kurdish teenager has been jailed for travelling to Europe to join female forces fighting against ISIS in the first case of its kind in the UK.

 

http://rudaw.net/english/world/23102015

 

 Turkish national alleged to be the head of the Kurdistan Workers‘ Party (PKK) in the German state of Saxony was arrested in police raids against the outlawed group.

 

 

 

http://ekurd.net/civilians-killed-turkey-kurd-conflict-2016-01-10

 

162 civilians killed in Turkish-Kurdish conflict: rights group

 

http://ekurd.net/turkey-probe-tv-kurdish-callers-2016-01-11

Turkey investigates TV show over ‘Kurdish terror propaganda’

 

 

http://ekurd.net/turkey-declared-war-against-kurds-2016-01-13

 

Turkish Kurdish MP says Ankara declared war against the Kurds

 

http://ekurd.net/turkey-kurdish-woman-politicians-killed-2016-01-06

 

Three female Kurdish politicians have been killed in fighting in a curfew-hit town in Turkish Kurdistan as the authorities press an offensive against the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party

 

http://ekurd.net/eu-court-rejects-end-curfews-turkey-2016-01-14

 

The European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) has rejected a petition for a temporary injunction on frequent days-long curfews that the Turkish government has enforced in southeastern Kurdish towns since late July 2015.

 

http://ekurd.net/turkey-detains-academics-over-kurds-2016-01-15

 

Turkish police on Friday detained at least 18 academics who signed a petition criticising a military crackdown in Turkish Kurdistan, the Kurdish region in country’s southeast, triggering new alarm about freedom of expression in the country.

 

[Meshugger]

 

Meanwhile in The Netherlands: https://www.om.nl/actueel/nieuwsberichten/@92678/aanhouding-vanwege/

 

A Dutch guy helped YPG to fight ISIS, killed a few of them, and upon arrival he was arrested for murder. This Europe, fellas. This is our priorities.

 

Making sure that country's own citizens follow its laws is bad? It is quite normal that we don't let people without official authority hunt and especially not kill criminals. Of course we can't talk should there be exception for criminal and terrorist organisations like ISIS and should there be criminal process for crimes that are done outside of country's borders, but then we also need to take account what if for example war criminal comes in the country what then and so on .

 

 

With priorities i referred to the discussion among politicians and media figures how one should "rehabilitate" people coming back from fighting with ISIS. At least the British simply revoke their passports if that happens. Here on the continent however...

[Elerond]

It is complex question. With multiple factors in play.

 

Countries under crisis aren't necessary capable or even willing to try people.

Also other laws may prevent giving people to be tried in other country, like for example European human rights convention forbids to senting people to be tried in countries were they will face death penalty, torture or otherwise their life will be in danger.

Also thing that is crime in one country is not necessary crime in another country. For example using nazis as example killing hews was not crime in Nazi Germany, but in most other countries it would have counted as murder, and therefore they would probably would had tried their own people if they had gone to Germany to do such legal killing.

Also countries often have laws that they don't give their citizens to be tried in other countries but they are instead tried in their home countries.

 

Also putting person trough criminal process isn't same as saying they are necessary guilty in something but that they have done something which legality is under question.

[213374U]

With priorities i referred to the discussion among politicians and media figures how one should "rehabilitate" people coming back from fighting with ISIS. At least the British simply revoke their passports if that happens. Here on the continent however...

Apples and oranges much?

 

Fighting foreign wars unless you are integrated in a foreign country's military is hairy business. If you are a national of a country where it's illegal to get involved in a conflict your country isn't a party in, you are obviously going to face consequences. Not to mention that the PKK is a terrorist organization according to the EU. On the other hand, generally you cannot try foreigners for fighting in a civil war in their own country, though in some cases they may be charged with war crimes, being part of terrorist organizations, etc.

 

Netherlands is a part of the US-led coalition to take out IS, but there has been no declaration of war, and therefore its status as a party in the Syrian civil war is unclear, though I'm guessing the government would say they aren't. Hypocrisy in foreign affairs, news at 11.

 

BTW, who are these former IS fighters that are being "rehabilitated" instead of facing prosecution? Where was this discussed and by whom? Or is this also "speculation"?

 

Seriously, you are playing so fast and loose it's not even funny.

[Meshugger]

 

With priorities i referred to the discussion among politicians and media figures how one should "rehabilitate" people coming back from fighting with ISIS. At least the British simply revoke their passports if that happens. Here on the continent however...

Apples and oranges much?

 

Fighting foreign wars unless you are integrated in a foreign country's military is hairy business. If you are a national of a country where it's illegal to get involved in a conflict your country isn't a party in, you are obviously going to face consequences. Not to mention that the PKK is a terrorist organization according to the EU. On the other hand, generally you cannot try foreigners for fighting in a civil war in their own country, though in some cases they may be charged with war crimes, being part of terrorist organizations, etc.

 

Netherlands is a part of the US-led coalition to take out IS, but there has been no declaration of war, and therefore its status as a party in the Syrian civil war is unclear, though I'm guessing the government would say they aren't. Hypocrisy in foreign affairs, news at 11.

 

BTW, who are these former IS fighters that are being "rehabilitated" instead of facing prosecution? Where was this discussed and by whom? Or is this also "speculation"?

 

Seriously, you are playing so fast and loose it's not even funny.

 

 

How many ISIS-fighters have returned to their respective countries on the continent? How many have been arrested for murder for what they did in Syria? For example, two refugees in Finland are currently arrested under the very said suspicion so far, but nothing has been done on finnish nationals who have returned yet. Those people are simply being monitored according the police.

 

In other news, a new tradition has been embraced in Dortmund, the stoning of transsexuals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B_mZTgm8MQ

Edited January 16, 2016 by Meshugger

[HoonDing]

Police officers named Kim and Justin Bieber haircuts. That explains a lot about the goings on there.

 

EDIT: is that an earring?

Edited January 16, 2016 by HoonDing

[213374U]

How many ISIS-fighters have returned to their respective countries on the continent? How many have been arrested for murder for what they did in Syria? For example, two refugees in Finland are currently arrested under the very said suspicion so far, but nothing has been done on finnish nationals who have returned yet. Those people are simply being monitored according the police.

 

Are we talking about Finland or Netherlands now? Are you aware that different countries have different laws?

 

You tell me how many native European IS fighters have returned to their respective countries and are living the high life off the teat of the gov't instead of facing prosecution, since it's you making that claim.

 

Perhaps if you have concrete evidence that Finns have been indeed fighting with IS you should contact the Finnish police. Evidence, mate. Not "speculation".

 

 

edit: "contintents", lol

Edited January 17, 2016 by 213374U

[Meshugger]

 

How many ISIS-fighters have returned to their respective countries on the continent? How many have been arrested for murder for what they did in Syria? For example, two refugees in Finland are currently arrested under the very said suspicion so far, but nothing has been done on finnish nationals who have returned yet. Those people are simply being monitored according the police.

 

Are we talking about Finland or Netherlands now? Are you aware that different countries have different laws?

 

You tell me how many native European IS fighters have returned to their respective countries and are living the high life off the teat of the gov't instead of facing prosecution, since it's you making that claim.

 

Perhaps if you have concrete evidence that Finns have been indeed fighting with IS you should contact the Finnish police. Evidence, mate. Not "speculation".

 

 

edit: "contintents", lol

 

 

Nobody knows for sure how many have returned. There's only estimates by various national security agencies on how many have left, which is about 7500 at the moment.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32026985

http://uk.businessinsider.com/700-germans-are-fighting-for-isis-and-the-number-of-women-joining-keeps-growing-2015-6?r=US&IR=T

 

The finnish authorities estimate that 100 have left and a handful has returned and are monitored for the time being. Anyhow, that wasn't the point that is was making, it was about the leniency people in politics and media have about these people, and choosing what values to endorse and to prioritize:

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/denmark-isis-fighters-warmly-welcome-home-by-psychiatrists-1470546

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.676/sweden-to-reward-returning-isis-jihadists.html

http://europe.newsweek.com/returning-isis-fighters-forgiveness-or-punishment-294497?rm=eu

 

A sane human being wouldn't opening cases on people fighting against ISIS as a top priority.

[BruceVC]

 

 

How many ISIS-fighters have returned to their respective countries on the continent? How many have been arrested for murder for what they did in Syria? For example, two refugees in Finland are currently arrested under the very said suspicion so far, but nothing has been done on finnish nationals who have returned yet. Those people are simply being monitored according the police.

 

Are we talking about Finland or Netherlands now? Are you aware that different countries have different laws?

 

You tell me how many native European IS fighters have returned to their respective countries and are living the high life off the teat of the gov't instead of facing prosecution, since it's you making that claim.

 

Perhaps if you have concrete evidence that Finns have been indeed fighting with IS you should contact the Finnish police. Evidence, mate. Not "speculation".

 

 

edit: "contintents", lol

 

 

Nobody knows for sure how many have returned. There's only estimates by various national security agencies on how many have left, which is about 7500 at the moment.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32026985

http://uk.businessinsider.com/700-germans-are-fighting-for-isis-and-the-number-of-women-joining-keeps-growing-2015-6?r=US&IR=T

 

The finnish authorities estimate that 100 have left and a handful has returned and are monitored for the time being. Anyhow, that wasn't the point that is was making, it was about the leniency people in politics and media have about these people, and choosing what values to endorse and to prioritize:

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/denmark-isis-fighters-warmly-welcome-home-by-psychiatrists-1470546

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.676/sweden-to-reward-returning-isis-jihadists.html

http://europe.newsweek.com/returning-isis-fighters-forgiveness-or-punishment-294497?rm=eu

 

A sane human being wouldn't opening cases on people fighting against ISIS as a top priority.

 

Your links only mention about 1400  people from Germany and the UK had possibly joined ISIS

 

The 7500  number is for the number of German people who sympathize with ISIS, yes people joining ISIS is an issue and that is something we need to be concerned about but we need to keep  this in perspective 

[Elerond]

I would say that those articles give bit too rosy picture how Denmark actually treated said ISIS fighters, even though their PR gives nice and cosy picture of forgiveness and brighter future.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/12/deradicalise-isis-fighters-jihadists-denmark-syria

 

And other countries didn't share that Danish approach

"Most western countries, fearful of the threat they could pose, are cracking down on returning fighters. In France, tough new anti-terror legislation allows authorities to seize passports and ID cards from would-be jihadists “likely to jeopardise public security on their return”. Britain has arrested at least 60 returnees; government talk has been of long jail terms, or trying to ban more from coming back at all.

 

At least 30 returning jihadists are facing trial in Germany, which is mulling far stricter exit controls, while, in Antwerp, 46 people were recently accused of belonging to a Belgian group that allegedly recruited and sent fighters to Syria; the group’s leader could face up to 15 years in prison."

 

Also there is bit difference between Denmark and Netherlands

"Fighting in Syria, as long as it is not for an outlawed group, is not illegal, and Danish law does not allow authorities to forbid people from travelling. “We can’t take passports,” says the commissioner. “We have laws against participating in banned terrorist groups; fundraising, that kind of thing. But our only real tool is to try to persuade them not to go.”"

 

Also in that Danish approach it not for all returning ISIS fighters

"The so-called Aarhus model, says Preben Bertelsen, a psychology professor at Aarhus University, is about “inclusion. Look: these are young people struggling with pretty much the same issues as any others – getting a grip on their lives, making sense of things, finding a meaningful place in society. We have to say: provided you have done nothing criminal, we will help you to find a way back.”

 

And police justifies their approach

"But in his office on the fifth floor of East Jutland police headquarters in Aarhus, superintendent Allan Aarslev, who is in charge of the police end of the programme, waves away any suggestion that the city’s approach represents the easy option. “What’s easy,” he says, “is to pass tough new laws. Harder is to go through a real process with individuals: a panel of experts, counselling, healthcare, assistance getting back into education, with employment, maybe accommodation. With returning to everyday life and society. We don’t do this out of political conviction; we do it because we think it works.”"

 

"It may have launched only at the start of this year, but Aarhus’s exit programme builds on a longstanding, integrated and very Danish approach to crime prevention that has operated for more than 30 years, stresses Aarslev’s commanding officer, police commissioner JØrgen Ilum."

 

"“But this is not a get-out-of-jail-free card,” the commissioner says. “If we think we have reason to believe they have committed crimes, we will investigate and prosecute.” So far, police have been unable to prove any of the city’s returnees actively supported, or engaged in, terrorism."

 

"Aarhus police have simply handed their files over to the Danish intelligence service, and asked that a watchful eye be kept on them."

 

And also such approach may disappear from Denmark and new laws may come in place to give official ability to arrest people without proof that they did something other than traveled in ISIS controlled territories.

"It is not an approach that has met with unanimous approval in Denmark, which, with more than 100 young jihadists emerging since 2012, has produced more fighters per head of its population than any other western European country bar Belgium. Conservative parties, including the anti-immigration Danish People’s Party, have loudly criticised the city’s thorough deradicalisation programme as “soft”, “naive”, “shortsighted” and ultimately “very dangerous”. The Venstre party has called for returning jihadists to be stripped of their citizenship and handed six-year jail terms."

 

As DPP now has quite good ability to drive in legislation changes that they want.

 

And I would not say that even in that Dutch case is not anyway near top priority, as currently they have taken his passport and said that he can't leave the country to prevent him going back in Syria and police is investigating if there is reason to prosecute him. I would say that there would not be even investigation if man had not made his fight against ISIS public in Facebook and well know by giving statements to press. It is hard for prosecution offices to ignore people that publicly declare that they have broken the law.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-dutch-arrest-idUKKCN0UT1S1

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

How many ISIS-fighters have returned to their respective countries on the continent? How many have been arrested for murder for what they did in Syria? For example, two refugees in Finland are currently arrested under the very said suspicion so far, but nothing has been done on finnish nationals who have returned yet. Those people are simply being monitored according the police.

 

Are we talking about Finland or Netherlands now? Are you aware that different countries have different laws?

 

You tell me how many native European IS fighters have returned to their respective countries and are living the high life off the teat of the gov't instead of facing prosecution, since it's you making that claim.

 

Perhaps if you have concrete evidence that Finns have been indeed fighting with IS you should contact the Finnish police. Evidence, mate. Not "speculation".

 

 

edit: "contintents", lol

 

 

Nobody knows for sure how many have returned. There's only estimates by various national security agencies on how many have left, which is about 7500 at the moment.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32026985

http://uk.businessinsider.com/700-germans-are-fighting-for-isis-and-the-number-of-women-joining-keeps-growing-2015-6?r=US&IR=T

 

The finnish authorities estimate that 100 have left and a handful has returned and are monitored for the time being. Anyhow, that wasn't the point that is was making, it was about the leniency people in politics and media have about these people, and choosing what values to endorse and to prioritize:

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/denmark-isis-fighters-warmly-welcome-home-by-psychiatrists-1470546

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.676/sweden-to-reward-returning-isis-jihadists.html

http://europe.newsweek.com/returning-isis-fighters-forgiveness-or-punishment-294497?rm=eu

 

A sane human being wouldn't opening cases on people fighting against ISIS as a top priority.

 

Your links only mention about 1400  people from Germany and the UK had possibly joined ISIS

 

The 7500  number is for the number of German people who sympathize with ISIS, yes people joining ISIS is an issue and that is something we need to be concerned about but we need to keep  this in perspective 

 

 

My bad and the wrong link to boot. Here it is http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-syria-iraq-is-isis-isil-infographic/26584940.html

[Meshugger]

I would say that those articles give bit too rosy picture how Denmark actually treated said ISIS fighters, even though their PR gives nice and cosy picture of forgiveness and brighter future.

 

Exactly, that's my point i am making.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Meshugger

[213374U]

A sane human being wouldn't opening cases on people fighting against ISIS as a top priority.

 

Seriously, stop. At this point it's abundantly clear you aren't even remotely interested in facts, not even those from the sources you provide yourself:

 

 

IBTimes:

 

On a national level, the Danish government recently announced the launch of an "exit centre" for people keen to leave extremist groups. While fighters are screened, and those who have committed crimes are dealt with by the courts, the rest of the returnees are given the option of reintegration.

 

The Newsweek piece:

 

In the UK, foreign secretary Philip Hammond stated that returning ISIS fighters could face the first treason trials since World War II. Approximately 250 fighters have already returned to the UK, and those who leave may be rendered stateless by the country’s policy.

 

The article also discusses harsher measures by Canada and Australia but that doesn't matter because they aren't Yurop. It also mentions the cluster**** that is the EU due to having a million different laws, security services and watchlists. Nothing new here.

 

The only fact-based argument remotely resembling the picture you've been painting is with the "Aarhus approach", but that's a) in Denmark, not Netherlands and b) only for people who haven't committed crimes, as per the IBTimes link which you obviously didn't bother reading completely.

 

Yeah, enforcing laws is usually a priority of governments. At least with the small fish and blue-collar criminals. Besides, the guy in Netherlands has been released, even though he has to report to the judge weekly and cannot leave the country. You blew this out of proportion to make it a sort of cultural priority across all of Europe, which is ridiculous.

 

But hey, at least you've made me waste a good 30 minutes on your links (bonus points for including some behind a paywall) and writing the reply, and it's not the first time. That was the goal, wasn't it?

Edited January 17, 2016 by 213374U

[Malcador]

So have attitudes changed much on Germany over this? Reading reports of it seeming that way but those are reports.

 

Any Germans around?

[Meshugger]

 

A sane human being wouldn't opening cases on people fighting against ISIS as a top priority.

 

Seriously, stop. At this point it's abundantly clear you aren't even remotely interested in facts, not even those from the sources you provide yourself:

 

 

IBTimes:

 

On a national level, the Danish government recently announced the launch of an "exit centre" for people keen to leave extremist groups. While fighters are screened, and those who have committed crimes are dealt with by the courts, the rest of the returnees are given the option of reintegration.

 

The Newsweek piece:

 

In the UK, foreign secretary Philip Hammond stated that returning ISIS fighters could face the first treason trials since World War II. Approximately 250 fighters have already returned to the UK, and those who leave may be rendered stateless by the country’s policy.

 

The article also discusses harsher measures by Canada and Australia but that doesn't matter because they aren't Yurop. It also mentions the cluster**** that is the EU due to having a million different laws, security services and watchlists. Nothing new here.

 

The only fact-based argument remotely resembling the picture you've been painting is with the "Aarhus approach", but that's a) in Denmark, not Netherlands and b) only for people who haven't committed crimes, as per the IBTimes link which you obviously didn't bother reading completely.

 

Yeah, enforcing laws is usually a priority of governments. At least with the small fish and blue-collar criminals. Besides, the guy in Netherlands has been released, even though he has to report to the judge weekly and cannot leave the country. You blew this out of proportion to make it a sort of cultural priority across all of Europe, which is ridiculous.

 

 

 

The key-words in those articles is that there's a lot "will, should've, could've"-s, but when it is someone fighting against ISIS there's suddenly the time and resources available for an investigation. Sorry, but my point still stands, when someone is fighting against these people compared to the security threat of ISIS-fighters possibly returning through legal or illegal means to your country, you better have your priorities straight.

 

Instead we all the same kind of people falling over themselves (hellooo media) on how to forgive and integrate when it is the different kind fighters. 

 

"But hey, at least you've made me waste a good 30 minutes on your links (bonus points for including some behind a paywall) and writing the reply, and it's not the first time. That was the goal, wasn't it?"

 

You know better than to lie about such matters, it's never wasted time to try argue about someone else being wrong on the Internet

Edited January 17, 2016 by Meshugger

[BruceVC]

 

 

A sane human being wouldn't opening cases on people fighting against ISIS as a top priority.

 

Seriously, stop. At this point it's abundantly clear you aren't even remotely interested in facts, not even those from the sources you provide yourself:

 

 

IBTimes:

 

On a national level, the Danish government recently announced the launch of an "exit centre" for people keen to leave extremist groups. While fighters are screened, and those who have committed crimes are dealt with by the courts, the rest of the returnees are given the option of reintegration.

 

The Newsweek piece:

 

In the UK, foreign secretary Philip Hammond stated that returning ISIS fighters could face the first treason trials since World War II. Approximately 250 fighters have already returned to the UK, and those who leave may be rendered stateless by the country’s policy.

 

The article also discusses harsher measures by Canada and Australia but that doesn't matter because they aren't Yurop. It also mentions the cluster**** that is the EU due to having a million different laws, security services and watchlists. Nothing new here.

 

The only fact-based argument remotely resembling the picture you've been painting is with the "Aarhus approach", but that's a) in Denmark, not Netherlands and b) only for people who haven't committed crimes, as per the IBTimes link which you obviously didn't bother reading completely.

 

Yeah, enforcing laws is usually a priority of governments. At least with the small fish and blue-collar criminals. Besides, the guy in Netherlands has been released, even though he has to report to the judge weekly and cannot leave the country. You blew this out of proportion to make it a sort of cultural priority across all of Europe, which is ridiculous.

 

 

 

The key-words in those articles is that there's a lot "will, should've, could've"-s, but when it is someone fighting against ISIS there's suddenly the time and resources available for an investigation. Sorry, but my point still stands, when someone is fighting against these people compared to the security threat of ISIS-fighters possibly returning through legal or illegal means to your country, you better have your priorities straight.

 

Instead we all the same kind of people falling over themselves (hellooo media) on how to forgive and integrate when it is the different kind fighters. 

 

"But hey, at least you've made me waste a good 30 minutes on your links (bonus points for including some behind a paywall) and writing the reply, and it's not the first time. That was the goal, wasn't it?"

 

You know better than to lie about such matters, it's never wasted time to try argue about someone else being wrong on the Internet

 

@ 2133

 

Meshugger isn't  trying to waste your time, I know sometimes it may seem like he is debating a view very different to yours but I don't think he is trolling ( well thats how I see you Meshugger...I would be shocked if you were trolling about this topic )

 

I dont people who chose to leave  a country and go to fight for ISIS should be allowed back ?

[Meshugger]

...and in some good news about foreigners immigrating to Europe: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/jan/11/steven-seagal-serbian-citizenship-martial-arts-school