Vampire: The Masquerade made by Obsidian?

[D3vN0ll]

Just had a thought after the Paradox new licence acquirement:

http://www.obsidian.net/press/eternity/obsidian-partnership-with-paradox

+

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-10-29-paradox-interactive-buys-white-wolf-publishing

=

Does this mean that Obsidian could have the opportunity to work on a new Vampire the Masquerade title?

Would be interesting to see if this could happen.

Edited October 29, 2015 by D3vN0ll

[aluminiumtrioxid]

OMG! Please no. Can you imagine JEST trying to balance everything in Vampire? Clans, disciplines, charakter sheets? Just leave this one to professional like iNxile.

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

 

 

So you don't really want a Vampire RPG. What is the point of making a game with known IP if you just change everything? Just a money grab.

 

 

You don't need to change anything to make the game balanced, you need to design your game around the diverging capabilities different clans bring to the table.

 

Refraining from pointlessly changing how the system works in the name of maximized killing capacity for everybody like Bloodlines did would be a start.

[teknoman2]

in bloodlines if you picked Tremere and maxed out sneaking and that mental trick power, you could pretty much kill anything besides a boss with a simple click while hidden in a dark corner

im not sure any other vampire family had such an easy time killing enemies

[majestic]

OMG! Please no. Can you imagine JEST trying to balance everything in Vampire? Clans, disciplines, charakter sheets? Just leave this one to professional like iNxile.

 

Well, to be fair, IWD2 was anything but balanced. There's only so much one can do while following existing core rules.

[Tale]

in bloodlines if you picked Tremere and maxed out sneaking and that mental trick power, you could pretty much kill anything besides a boss with a simple click while hidden in a dark corner

im not sure any other vampire family had such an easy time killing enemies

I can't hear you over the sound of all my foes going crazy and shooting each other.

[ruzen]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82893-paradox-interactive-acquires-white-wolf-publishing/page-3

[Oner]

 

 

OMG! Please no. Can you imagine JEST trying to balance everything in Vampire? Clans, disciplines, charakter sheets? Just leave this one to professional like iNxile.

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

 

 

So you don't really want a Vampire RPG. What is the point of making a game with known IP if you just change everything? Just a money grab.

 

How is spending time and money to change stuff moneygrabbing vs leaving it as is?

[Orogun01]

 

 

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

 

 

So you don't really want a Vampire RPG. What is the point of making a game with known IP if you just change everything? Just a money grab.

 

 

You don't need to change anything to make the game balanced, you need to design your game around the diverging capabilities different clans bring to the table.

 

Refraining from pointlessly changing how the system works in the name of maximized killing capacity for everybody like Bloodlines did would be a start.

 

I don't think you would be a good game designer.

[Maf]

OMG! Please no. Can you imagine JEST trying to balance everything in Vampire? Clans, disciplines, charakter sheets? Just leave this one to professional like iNxile.

LOL

"Professional like iNxile", that made me laugh a bit.

The last actual game before Wasteland 2 from inxile was Bard's tale in 2004.

The rest was nothing I'd play or even heard of.

So they basically only recently produced Wasteland 2 and if I had to pick 1 out of this list NOT to play:

 

Pillars of Eternity

Fallout: New Vegas

Alpha Protocol

Wasteland 2

 

Yeah, sorry Wasteland 2 but you gotta go.

Oh also, those other 3 had Josh in the credits.

Yeah I'm a fan as he's actually produced great games.

And actually just created a memorable RPG from SCRATCH.

 

You also talk about "money grabbing", the only money grabbing I'm seeing is from inxile honestly.

Torment kickstarter so soon after Wasteland?

Yeah.. xD

 

However.

I'm sure even you will agree that the fact that we now have Pillars NEXT to getting Torment soon is just better for us all

And we'll simply have to agree to disagree on inxile being "more professional"

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

 

 

So you don't really want a Vampire RPG. What is the point of making a game with known IP if you just change everything? Just a money grab.

 

 

You don't need to change anything to make the game balanced, you need to design your game around the diverging capabilities different clans bring to the table.

 

Refraining from pointlessly changing how the system works in the name of maximized killing capacity for everybody like Bloodlines did would be a start.

 

I don't think you would be a good game designer.

 

 

I'm sorry, what? The changed disciplines in Bloodlines were a ****ing travesty, not to mention the gaping plothole it caused (namely that in-universe, pretty much every fledgling with Obfuscate 3 can replicate the "I am Nines Rodriguez" trick, thus making his appearance at the dead Primogen's estate an extremely flimsy casus belli).

 

Bloodlines was a decent game (and more importantly, it worked as a horror rpg), but a good Vampire adaptation it ain't.

[Gorgon]

Balance is for multiplayer. If there is a class or a skill tree that is better than the others in a single player game I couldn't care less. Well maybe a little. It's way down on the list anyway.

[Infinitron]

Hey Josh, it turns out people are expecting you to make all the Obsidian games now. Are you up to it?

Edited October 31, 2015 by Infinitron

[teknoman2]

Balance is for multiplayer. If there is a class or a skill tree that is better than the others in a single player game I couldn't care less. Well maybe a little. It's way down on the list anyway.

in a multiplayer game, balance is making all character types equaly combat proficient. in a single player rpg, balance is making all character builds able to reach the end of the game without hitting a wall that says "oh, you do not have X points on that skill? sorry, roll a new character and try again"

[Elerond]

 

Balance is for multiplayer. If there is a class or a skill tree that is better than the others in a single player game I couldn't care less. Well maybe a little. It's way down on the list anyway.

in a multiplayer game, balance is making all character types equaly combat proficient. in a single player rpg, balance is making all character builds able to reach the end of the game without hitting a wall that says "oh, you do not have X points on that skill? sorry, roll a new character and try again"

 

 

Like for example Wasteland 2 that seems to suffer quite much from syndromes "Oh you have wrong build though luck to you" and "Oh you have right build there is no challenge for you" when you add fact that it is also quite buggy and suffers from performance and stability issues, I would not necessary take it as example how I want future RPGs to look. This is not to say that Obsidian's games don't have issues, but that there is no perfect game maker or game and that is strengths of the games that make them memorable and enjoyable not their weaknesses. Also I would not mind to see Vampire game from Obsidian, inXile, or  both, because I think they both are great. Although if I had to choose I probably would choose Obsidian as their proven track record for heavily story focused games is much more impressive than inXile's.

 

To clear the point: Balance matters, even in single player games, but how, where and why depends on fully on game, genre and personal preferences. There is no perfect game, no perfect developer, no game without weaknesses. Game's strengths play much bigger role in how enjoyable and  memorable they are than their weaknesses. I want new Vampire game. I think both inXile and Obsidian are great studios, but I favor Obsidian bit more because of their history. 

[Orogun01]

 

 

 

 

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

 

 

So you don't really want a Vampire RPG. What is the point of making a game with known IP if you just change everything? Just a money grab.

 

 

You don't need to change anything to make the game balanced, you need to design your game around the diverging capabilities different clans bring to the table.

 

Refraining from pointlessly changing how the system works in the name of maximized killing capacity for everybody like Bloodlines did would be a start.

 

I don't think you would be a good game designer.

 

 

I'm sorry, what? The changed disciplines in Bloodlines were a ****ing travesty, not to mention the gaping plothole it caused (namely that in-universe, pretty much every fledgling with Obfuscate 3 can replicate the "I am Nines Rodriguez" trick, thus making his appearance at the dead Primogen's estate an extremely flimsy casus belli).

 

Bloodlines was a decent game (and more importantly, it worked as a horror rpg), but a good Vampire adaptation it ain't.

 

I get that you're a fussy cat but you must understand that tabletop doesn't translate well to video game. Asking for it just shows a lack of understanding of game development and the limitations of production and the medium.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

 

 

So you don't really want a Vampire RPG. What is the point of making a game with known IP if you just change everything? Just a money grab.

 

 

You don't need to change anything to make the game balanced, you need to design your game around the diverging capabilities different clans bring to the table.

 

Refraining from pointlessly changing how the system works in the name of maximized killing capacity for everybody like Bloodlines did would be a start.

 

I don't think you would be a good game designer.

 

 

I'm sorry, what? The changed disciplines in Bloodlines were a ****ing travesty, not to mention the gaping plothole it caused (namely that in-universe, pretty much every fledgling with Obfuscate 3 can replicate the "I am Nines Rodriguez" trick, thus making his appearance at the dead Primogen's estate an extremely flimsy casus belli).

 

Bloodlines was a decent game (and more importantly, it worked as a horror rpg), but a good Vampire adaptation it ain't.

 

I get that you're a fussy cat but you must understand that tabletop doesn't translate well to video game. Asking for it just shows a lack of understanding of game development and the limitations of production and the medium.

 

 

*cough* InXile seems to think otherwise. Maybe you've heard of this cool new game called Torment: Tides of Numenera?

 

But I'm sure your game designer experience and insight is much more valuable than theirs.

Edited October 31, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[HoonDing]

Last I checked the Final Nights happened already in WoD. Was it rebooted?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Last I checked the Final Nights happened already in WoD. Was it rebooted?

 

Ayupp, the 20th anniversary edition and following products assume the Gehenna and much of the events leading up to it never happened.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dunno about you, but I'd rather have a balanced Vampire RPG than one that isn't.

 

 

So you don't really want a Vampire RPG. What is the point of making a game with known IP if you just change everything? Just a money grab.

 

 

You don't need to change anything to make the game balanced, you need to design your game around the diverging capabilities different clans bring to the table.

 

Refraining from pointlessly changing how the system works in the name of maximized killing capacity for everybody like Bloodlines did would be a start.

 

I don't think you would be a good game designer.

 

 

I'm sorry, what? The changed disciplines in Bloodlines were a ****ing travesty, not to mention the gaping plothole it caused (namely that in-universe, pretty much every fledgling with Obfuscate 3 can replicate the "I am Nines Rodriguez" trick, thus making his appearance at the dead Primogen's estate an extremely flimsy casus belli).

 

Bloodlines was a decent game (and more importantly, it worked as a horror rpg), but a good Vampire adaptation it ain't.

 

I get that you're a fussy cat but you must understand that tabletop doesn't translate well to video game. Asking for it just shows a lack of understanding of game development and the limitations of production and the medium.

 

 

*cough* InXile seems to think otherwise. Maybe you've heard of this cool new game called Torment: Tides of Numenera?

 

But I'm sure your game designer experience and insight is much more valuable than theirs.

 

 

You mean that game in which they changes how some of the core mechanics of P&P version work because they didn't find way to make them work in CRPG environment?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

You mean that game in which they changes how some of the core mechanics of P&P version work because they didn't find way to make them work in CRPG environment?

 

 

Obviously I'm not advocating for a complete adaptation of the rules, that would be stupid.

 

But maybe saying "this discipline that about half the clans has doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do, unless you're a member of a very specific clan", or "**** it, figuring out ways for investigative/social/utility disciplines to be actually useful in the game is hard, let's change them so they let you kill people even faster" is equally stupid.

 

I mean, sure, I get why they did it (combat content is cheap to make and yields a better "time investment on part of the designer"/"time investment for the player to get through it" ratio, not to mention that the publisher would've thrown a ****fit of epic proportions if they saw they were making a proper Vampire game with a heavy focus on intrigue and social interactions at the expense of monster-filled sewer levels), but that doesn't make it a good adaptation.

 

On the other hand, as a long-time Numenera player, I can actually say with some confidence that from what we've seen so far, TToN is remarkably faithful to the spirit of the ruleset that spawned it.

Edited October 31, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Orogun01]

 

 

You mean that game in which they changes how some of the core mechanics of P&P version work because they didn't find way to make them work in CRPG environment?

 

 

Obviously I'm not advocating for a complete adaptation of the rules, that would be stupid.

 

But maybe saying "this discipline that about half the clans has doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do, unless you're a member of a very specific clan", or "**** it, figuring out ways for investigative/social/utility disciplines to be actually useful in the game is hard, let's change them so they let you kill people even faster" is equally stupid.

 

I mean, sure, I get why they did it (combat content is cheap to make and yields a better "time investment on part of the designer"/"time investment for the player to get through it" ratio, not to mention that the publisher would've thrown a ****fit of epic proportions if they saw they were making a proper Vampire game with a heavy focus on intrigue and social interactions at the expense of monster-filled sewer levels), but that doesn't make it a good adaptation.

 

So you you're just cherrypicking?

[Elerond]

 

 

You mean that game in which they changes how some of the core mechanics of P&P version work because they didn't find way to make them work in CRPG environment?

 

 

Obviously I'm not advocating for a complete adaptation of the rules, that would be stupid.

 

But maybe saying "this discipline that about half the clans has doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do, unless you're a member of a very specific clan", or "**** it, figuring out ways for investigative/social/utility disciplines to be actually useful in the game is hard, let's change them so they let you kill people even faster" is equally stupid.

 

 

Yup those weren't most exiting designing decision that they could have made. Also I kill tunnel map design in some quest was so lazy that it is too easy to see that they run out of time when they made them.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

You mean that game in which they changes how some of the core mechanics of P&P version work because they didn't find way to make them work in CRPG environment?

 

 

Obviously I'm not advocating for a complete adaptation of the rules, that would be stupid.

 

But maybe saying "this discipline that about half the clans has doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do, unless you're a member of a very specific clan", or "**** it, figuring out ways for investigative/social/utility disciplines to be actually useful in the game is hard, let's change them so they let you kill people even faster" is equally stupid.

 

I mean, sure, I get why they did it (combat content is cheap to make and yields a better "time investment on part of the designer"/"time investment for the player to get through it" ratio, not to mention that the publisher would've thrown a ****fit of epic proportions if they saw they were making a proper Vampire game with a heavy focus on intrigue and social interactions at the expense of monster-filled sewer levels), but that doesn't make it a good adaptation.

 

So you you're just cherrypicking?

 

 

No, I'm saying they did a **** job of actually adapting the ruleset to the realities and needs of computer gaming while preserving the spirit of the original.

 

I mean, ****, Bloodlines probably has a worse talky bits to killy bits ratio than PST, which is fundamentally a D&D-adaptation. A game adapted from a system centered around killing things and taking their stuff offered more opportunities for roleplaying and social interaction than the game adapted from Vampire, the granddaddy of intrigue-based tabletop RPGs? Doesn't that sound ass-backwards to you?

Edited October 31, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Orogun01]

 

 

 

 

You mean that game in which they changes how some of the core mechanics of P&P version work because they didn't find way to make them work in CRPG environment?

 

 

Obviously I'm not advocating for a complete adaptation of the rules, that would be stupid.

 

But maybe saying "this discipline that about half the clans has doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do, unless you're a member of a very specific clan", or "**** it, figuring out ways for investigative/social/utility disciplines to be actually useful in the game is hard, let's change them so they let you kill people even faster" is equally stupid.

 

I mean, sure, I get why they did it (combat content is cheap to make and yields a better "time investment on part of the designer"/"time investment for the player to get through it" ratio, not to mention that the publisher would've thrown a ****fit of epic proportions if they saw they were making a proper Vampire game with a heavy focus on intrigue and social interactions at the expense of monster-filled sewer levels), but that doesn't make it a good adaptation.

 

So you you're just cherrypicking?

 

 

No, I'm saying they did a **** job of actually adapting the ruleset to the realities and needs of computer gaming while preserving the spirit of the original.

 

I'm curious how would you have made it, keep in mind that every feature is a timesink and that you have limited production time and resources.