Fallout 4 is coming soon.. is there a new OB Fallout Scheduled?

[Hurlshort]

Yeah, as I said initially, I'd probably be a lot more sore if I didn't have Wasteland 2 to play when I wanted to develop characters and use my skills to solve problems creatively.  Sadly I doubt we will ever go backwards, the game sells too well for Bethesda to not continue down the road of the action game genre.  

[sorophx]

someone pointed out to me today, that Fallout 4 would've been better off named STALKER 2, because it has a lot more in common with the STALKER games, game mechanics wise 

[Lexx]

Heh, man... this plain text mod is really bad for Fallout 4. It pretty much shovels into your face how non-existing choice is.

 

Edited November 26, 2015 by Lexx

[Fenixp]

....

At least in Mass Effect they saved on development and actually played the same line regardless of your choice.

[Sakai]

Heh, man... this plain text mod is really bad for Fallout 4. It pretty much shovels into your face how non-existing choice is.

At this point i'm not even sure why they bothered with it at all. 

[Longknife]

 

Heh, man... this plain text mod is really bad for Fallout 4. It pretty much shovels into your face how non-existing choice is.

At this point i'm not even sure why they bothered with it at all. 

 

 

 

May sound weird but perhaps it was their attempt to cater towards those of us that want dialog? Like say they did an E3 presentation with no dialog options, and instead it's just a confirm button you hit to acknowledge you haven't fallen asleep yet mid-convo. I'm pretty sure everyone cringed hard when they saw the dialog options as-is and I seem to distinctly remember that one of the quietest moments of the presentation (aka no cheers or applause) was when the dialog was shown. I think there would've been a far larger backlash if there just blatantly weren't any dialog options whatsoever.

  Tie this in with the fact that....well look, Bethesda clearly isn't a fan of dialog. Their track record would suggest this with Skyrim's speech skill being basically worthless alongside, if you recall, a rather not-so-covert little stumble by Pete Hines when he stated he likes that FO4 lets him easily skip dialog and walk away so he doesn't have to listen to boring conversations while saying "only Rockstar makes convos good" or something along those lines. Bethesda does not exactly seem to be very excited about writing dialog or storylines for their games, they seem more interested in world building and action.

 

  I do think we need to realize that every company does indeed have every intention of making money. Nothing to loathe or praise as it comes with goods and bads (see the video about how a more popular Fallout franchise means more spin-offs like New Vegas), just a reality to acknowledge and accept.

 

On the issue of RPG vs. FPS? I would genuinely believe this is what Bethesda is interested in making. Not my cup of tea, but I mean hey they'll make what interests them and that's how it should be; let them do their thing, more power to them and I can respect that and buy games that cater to my tastes instead, no hard feelings. On the subject of writing and dialog...? Look, go thumb through some of the interviews Todd Howard has done in the past few years. He seems VERY self-aware of the criticism and makes remarks about how story and character development "are the future" and how he knows those are weak points of theirs. I genuinely question if there's any real intention of fixing these at this point, or if Todd isn't conciously saying this stuff knowing it'll throw a bone to the people who fear these elements are neglected too much and encourage them to buy the game all the same. I'm not badmouthing Bethesda for this btw, mind you. I would expect ANY company to do this, so just wanna clarify I don't mean "BETHESDA R EBIL DEY LIE" or something; nah, I merely wish to clarify that PR, marketing, and selling the game are indeed cornerstones of game development from the company's perspective on things. And overall? At this point I do genuinely have to question if the dialog wasn't included as it stands now as a way to sell the game. AKA, I do think it's plausible that Bethesda themselves were genuinely interested in simply assigning the main character preset lines that he ALWAYS spoke ala Far Cry or the like, but some asswipe in a marketing department determined the game might take a hit in sales if a change that drastic were made, thus the half-hearted dialog system we have now. Is that what happened? Hell if I know and hell if anyone knows, but at this point I would definitely say it's on the table as a possibility.

[Humanoid]

Very much a tangent, but being able to walk away from any dialogue any time you liked should be baseline for any game. Of course, scripting the NPCs to properly react to it is difficult, but even if it just resets the conversation it's better than being trapped in one you never wanted to be in.

 

To illustrate with an example, during character creation, you talk to an annoying salesman at the door who just won't shut up. The game lets you just walk away and shut the door in his face. Of course, this is actually part of the character creation so you have to talk to him eventually, but in the hands of a good writer, this mechanic can be accounted for in a better way for some potentially wonderful emergent gameplay. It's like Mass Effect interrupts except you potentially can do anything you like instead of just pre-scripted paragon/renegade actions.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Humanoid

[HoonDing]

 

This seemed to surprisingly hit most of what I feel about the game..

 

PcGamer - Fallout 4 : Good game, bad rpg

 

 

I’m loving Fallout 4. Wandering the wasteland, poking around in abandoned buildings, listening to chirpy ‘50s pop, fighting mutants. It’s a great game to lose yourself in on a cold winter’s evening. But as a role-playing experience I’m finding it disappointingly weak—to the point where I wouldn’t even call it an RPG. An open-world action game with role-playing elements would be a more accurate description.

 

The same could be applied to other Bethesda games, which are often described as being as broad as an ocean and as deep as a puddle. But Fallout 4 feels like their most restrictive game yet in terms of customisation, choice, and dialogue. The protagonist doesn’t feel like my character. The things I say don’t seem to matter. My high charisma is used to squeeze a few extra caps out of quest-givers and little else.

 

The term ‘RPG’ is pretty loose. We could argue for days about what is and what isn’t. But for me, an important part of any good RPG is being able to create and shape a character that’s unique to you. My Fallout 4 vault dweller, however, is vaguely the same as everyone else’s—he just wears a different hat. I mean, it’s a really nice hat. An ushanka I found in a bin. But it’s not enough. There’s no feeling of ownership.

 

The restrictions of the new dialogue wheel and the addition of a voiced protagonist have stripped away any chance to give your character a distinct personality. They’re either a good guy, or a sarcastic good guy. The single voice on offer is so obviously tailored to fit a generic-looking white guy—like the one they used in the E3 demo—that it sounds weird coming out of anyone else. These limitations feel out of place in a game that offers so much freedom elsewhere. I feel more attached to the rickety old shack I built in Sanctuary than the boring, unfunny dude I’m playing as.

 

And these frustrating restrictions extend beyond your appearance. Previous Fallout games let you set traits, perks, skills, and tag skills on top of your base SPECIAL stats: Fallout 4 has perks, SPECIAL, and nothing else. This new system might be more streamlined and elegant—and I like some things about it—but it’s yet another example of Bethesda reducing the ways in which you can fine-tune your character.

 

I’m sure they had their reasons. Fallout is a mega-selling mainstream series now, and they obviously want to make it more accessible. Not everyone wants a super deep RPG. But the consequence of that is making that puddle even shallower. Fallout 4 has all the hallmarks of an RPG—quests, experience points, towns, trading, companions—but it’s all pretty superficial. It’s like a tribute act to an RPG: fine at first glance, but look a little closer and you realise that ‘Elvis’ is actually a guy in a cheap wig.

 

The quests are just as bad. After 30 hours of play, I can’t think of a single one that offered me the option to avoid, charm, or otherwise think my way out of combat. Maybe I’ve just been unlucky and all the rich, branching, interesting quests are still out there waiting to be discovered, but I doubt it. While Phil was reviewing it for us, every time I turned around to look at his monitor he was firing a gun.

 

You occasionally get the option to hack a turret, but that’s about as rich as its systems get. Some of the level design feels more like an FPS than an RPG: a series of rooms linked with corridors, filled with enemies waiting patiently for you to kill them. There’s the odd terminal which fills in the backstory of your surroundings, and some environmental storytelling, but it’s not enough to mask the fact that many of these places are just, when you really boil it down, elaborate shooting galleries.

 

For a resource-starved post-apocalyptic wasteland, guns and ammo are everywhere. You can’t walk five feet without lasers or bullets whizzing past your head. Within a few minutes of being unfrozen in the intro sequence you find a pistol and a stash of bullets. Bethesda obviously love designing guns, but perhaps they should have dedicated that energy to making characters that don’t look like sentient shop mannequins or writing dialogue that isn’t so stilted and lifeless.

 

Even after all that, I still can’t wait to get home and play Fallout 4 tonight. The sense of discovery—of picking a direction, wandering, and wondering what beautiful scenery, bizarre creature, or weird little story you’ll run into—is as fun as it’s been since I first played Morrowind. But it’s disheartening to see Fallout’s RPG foundations slowly ebb away. I’m sure Bethesda could make a really rich, complex game like the originals if they wanted, but they don’t have to. Fallout 4 sold 1.2 million copies in 24 hours. Why break the formula? But that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

 

Todd Howard wiped away his tears with a $500 bill after reading this.

[Longknife]

Very much a tangent, but being able to walk away from any dialogue any time you liked should be baseline for any game. Of course, scripting the NPCs to properly react to it is difficult, but even if it just resets the conversation it's better than being trapped in one you never wanted to be in.

 

To illustrate with an example, during character creation, you talk to an annoying salesman at the door who just won't shut up. The game lets you just walk away and shut the door in his face. Of course, this is actually part of the character creation so you have to talk to him eventually, but in the hands of a good writer, this mechanic can be accounted for in a better way for some potentially wonderful emergent gameplay. It's like Mass Effect interrupts except you potentially can do anything you like instead of just pre-scripted paragon/renegade actions.

 

 

Another tangent: do you guys prefer real time dialog or paused dialog?

 

 

As it stands now it seems more like a trade-off rather than the straight improvement you might expect at first. Great example I know of is there's a thief in a random encounter in Skyrim who will run up to you telling you to hold something for him, and then another guy will come chasing. BOTH will force dialog with you, so if you happen to be fighting a dragon or something, you might actually die because these two will force you into a conversation you cannot simply exit. For those who haven't played Skyrim or FO4, imagine that Blue Star Bottlecap NPC Malcolm Holmes in New Vegas approaching you during a fight (like he often does) except he DOESN'T pause time just before that Radscorpion attacks you.

   Another downside is that yes, sometimes you do get interrupted during an important snippet of dialog and sometimes NPCs don't repeat it when you re-engage them. I know I've seen both of these problems still present in FO4, wish I could remember which videos exactly though to link them as examples.

  The trade-off is of course that it can feel more natural with the world still moving, time still ticking and usually you can peace out at any given moment without much issue, though again ot always.

 

Worth it or no? Just felt it was worth bringing up cause this is a feature I initially appreciated in Skyrim but then kind of had second thoughts about. Paused dialog kinda makes sure things happen in an "organized" fashion and that no important events begin in the backround while you're talking, but surely they could tweaked real-time dialog enough to avoid any issues?

 

I mean as funny as this possibility is, it can also be infuriating for a dead-is-dead playstyle:

 

[HoonDing]

Worst friendzone ever

[marelooke]

someone pointed out to me today, that Fallout 4 would've been better off named STALKER 2, because it has a lot more in common with the STALKER games, game mechanics wise 

 

So it's a post apocalyptic shooter that oozes atmosphere, has some inventory management (guns are heavy man), has good gunplay, a good/realistic variety of weaponry and an engaging storyline (and yes, I thought at least SoC has a rather good storyline)? Maybe I should check it out after all once I'm done with Skyrim...

 

How I wish for an actual Stalker 2, if they'd just fix all the half broken mechanics and leave the formula alone otherwise then I'd so be all over it...

Edited November 27, 2015 by marelooke

[Fenixp]

The way I understand it, Fallout 4 isn't quite as mechanics-driven as STALKER games - a lot of that game's appeal came from good AI and AI actors interacting with each other within the sandbox environment. All arenas were extremely open for this very purpose - so random bunch of dogs can run in and start murdering your baddies as you sneak around, which makes baddies notice you, which radically changes situation, you know, that kind of stuff. Emergent gameplay is the term I believe.

 

Fallout 4 is a Bethesda title, so expect fantastic exploration aspect, but not necessarily what made STALKER great.

[sorophx]

So it's a post apocalyptic shooter that oozes atmosphere, has some inventory management (guns are heavy man), has good gunplay, a good/realistic variety of weaponry and an engaging storyline (and yes, I thought at least SoC has a rather good storyline)? Maybe I should check it out after all once I'm done with Skyrim...

personally, I didn't notice any of that in Fallout 4, but I am only watching a Let's Play, not playing myself, so it could be better than it looks. BUT, other people (most of them) do say, that Fallout 4 has: great atmosphere, great gunplay, great companions, and great customization (character and settlement). the story is ridiculous, of course, but I never played STALKER for the story, never paid any attention to it in SoC, for example. 

 

the weapons are as realistic in FO4 as they are in Borderlands (meaning, they look like they're made out of random parts and have additional effects like fire, poison, cold etc.). as for inventory management - it's the terrible FO3 PipBoy inventory...

[HoonDing]

That bitch Dr Li is at the Institute, nice of Bethesda to make it even less desirous to join them.

[GhostofAnakin]

What the hell?  Fallout 4 is taking forever to install.  Every other game took like half a minute to a minute at most.  It's already been 15 minutes for Fallout and I'm only at 20% installed.

[apolloooo]

Relevant video from Super Bunnyhop:

 

calling new vegas spinoff is a heresy, if anything, new vegas is the proper sequel to fallout 1 and 2, and east coast fallout are its own continuity

[GhostofAnakin]

I already hate the workbench in this game.  I'm supposed to make beds for the folks in Sanctuary, but it doesn't allow me to.  I don't even know what I'm missing as the only "requirement" I don't seem to have met is the little pip boy posing with a thumbs up.  WTF is that?  I seem to have the actual materials requirements.

[Lexx]

Maybe you need the perk. No idea which one this had been... maybe local leader or something?

[Humanoid]

I already hate the workbench in this game.  I'm supposed to make beds for the folks in Sanctuary, but it doesn't allow me to.  I don't even know what I'm missing as the only "requirement" I don't seem to have met is the little pip boy posing with a thumbs up.  WTF is that?  I seem to have the actual materials requirements.

 

I just started a new game and was able to make beds immediately after leaving the vault first time. Granted it was only because I bummed around the starting town for too long that it became night, so I deleted my old bombed-out bedframe and placed a new bed in my old room so I could advance the time.

[Hurlshort]

I'm surprised people aren't digging the total lack of tutorials on how to do anything in the game.  Isn't that a feature for hardcore gamers?  

 

I wasted so many resources on my original character before doing the "quest" ones that I started over.

[HoonDing]

My main quest bugged out somewhere around battle of Bunker Hill, I was forced to finish with Minutemen.

[CoM_Solaufein]

I'm surprised people aren't digging the total lack of tutorials on how to do anything in the game.  Isn't that a feature for hardcore gamers?  

 

I wasted so many resources on my original character before doing the "quest" ones that I started over.

The game guide is your friend. Except it doesn't tell you about key and mouse functions for crafting. I didn't know you could rotate an item with the right mouse button until later on in the game.

[GhostofAnakin]

Maybe you need the perk. No idea which one this had been... maybe local leader or something?

 

I figured it out.  It wasn't very clear about being able to move to a different location while in the workshop menu.  I was trying to build beds right at the workbench, then bringing them to the room.  I didn't know you could move to the room and then build.

[Raithe]

Maybe you need the perk. No idea which one this had been... maybe local leader or something?

 

Yeah, needing a perk can be a bit surprising. I hadn't realised I needed to actually get a couple of ranks in the pickpocket perk before you could plant live grenades on people.

[eLPuSHeR]

OMG. The more time I spend with this game the more infuriated I get about the beyond terrible inventory management interface. I know it's a Bethesda trademark but at least an option to "sort by last added" should be there.