PoE sells 500K units

[Quillon]

 

Seeing as how the base game costed probably around $5,000,000 give or take that leaves them with more than enough money to fund a sequel on their own without kickstarter. Also the sequel would be cheaper to make seeing as how they have all the assets from the original plus all the experience they gained from making this game which will make them more efficient for the sequel.

 

 

Back in the day(couple months ago : P) I didn't understand why some devs were doing KS after KS after KS... and I thought they were taking advantage of people but when I thought about it, they really have nothing to gain by doing KS when they have the budget for the next game, it only increases their budget and a portion of the copies of the game being made sold cheaper via pledging, so nothing to gain except for larger budget for the game. So I hope OE goes to KS again for PoE 2. Maybe they can do it on their own with the supposed around $7M budget but I wouldn't mind seeing what they can do with $10+ million.

[danielkx]

If they did KS for the sequel then I would imagine it would be like DOS 2 where KS is used for partial funding.

 

However this game doesn't need 10 million unless they are trying to voice act everything which I hope they don't.

[Gairnulf]

^ If Steam Spy is anywhere near accurate, they passed the 500K mark a while ago when factoring in GoG and Origin sales.

Steam Spy extrapolates data from a sample of a few hundred thousand Steam profiles that are scraped every three days. It isn't known if these profiles are selected completely at random. I guess not. The longer time that has passed since release, the more accurate Steam Spy is, generally. Also, the more copies sold, the more accurate it will get.

 

Also, I've read somewhere, don't remember where, that usually assuming 1/3 of the amount of Steam sales as the amount of sales on GOG.com relatively accurate.

[pmp10]

 

 

That's true. Only Volourn can declare a game a success.

 

Not to bright pun aimed ad personam. There are clear standards to decide objectively if the game was successful. 

Taking budget in to consideration 500.000 units sold is not a success for PoE.

 

How do you know that? I don't have much stake in the *argument.* Of course, I *want* PoE to have done well in terms of sales and sustainability, but the argument of whether it has or not isn't particularly important to me. I figure if it has, we'll know by what Obsidian *does.* However, from the point of view of folks saying 500k is a success or a failure in light of budgeting, how do people know?

We can't tell if Poe was a success, but we can compare it to the competition.

And we know that Wasteland 2 managed similar numbers despite lower KS budget, smaller names and worse reception.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

That's true. Only Volourn can declare a game a success.

 

Not to bright pun aimed ad personam. There are clear standards to decide objectively if the game was successful. 

Taking budget in to consideration 500.000 units sold is not a success for PoE.

 

How do you know that? I don't have much stake in the *argument.* Of course, I *want* PoE to have done well in terms of sales and sustainability, but the argument of whether it has or not isn't particularly important to me. I figure if it has, we'll know by what Obsidian *does.* However, from the point of view of folks saying 500k is a success or a failure in light of budgeting, how do people know?

We can't tell if Poe was a success, but we can compare it to the competition.

And we know that Wasteland 2 managed similar numbers despite lower KS budget, smaller names and worse reception.

 

 

And longer time to sell the game and lower price, with additional press coverage by console release and DC release. And even then Wasteland 2 steamspy's estimated numbers for it are 50k lower than PoE's.  Meaning that it is quite safe to say that PoE has sold more copies in shorter period of time and with higher price than Wasteland 2, but do that mean that PoE or Wasteland 2 is a success or failure? Answer depend wholly on how individual defines failure or success.

[Jarmo]

 

 

Back in the day(couple months ago : P) I didn't understand why some devs were doing KS after KS after KS... and I thought they were taking advantage of people but when I thought about it, they really have nothing to gain by doing KS when they have the budget for the next game, it only increases their budget and a portion of the copies of the game being made sold cheaper via pledging, so nothing to gain except for larger budget for the game. 

There actually is a monetary reason to kickstart as well.

While there are cheap pledge options, but a lot of people dish out far larger pledges than they'd ever normally spend on a game (I know I did).  

The average pledge for PoE was about $54, that's a better deal than they're getting from current sales.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jarmo

[anameforobsidian]

All of this comes down to your definition of success. For a company there can really only be three definitions of success: it makes as much money as possible; it makes enough money to keep making stuff; it didn't make that much money but it built the capital or reputation to allow you to make money in the future. By any standards, it succeeded at two and three. An 89 in metacritic points to reputation success, and the fact that Torment is using it points to technical success. Also, unless Obsidian made incredibly bad business deals, it made more than enough to make another game. An individual's personal idea of success may vary, but I'd point out that chasing the highest profit possible is what killed this genre and led to ideologically barren AAA games in the first place.

[anameforobsidian]

 

 

 

That's true. Only Volourn can declare a game a success.

 

Not to bright pun aimed ad personam. There are clear standards to decide objectively if the game was successful.

Taking budget in to consideration 500.000 units sold is not a success for PoE.

How do you know that? I don't have much stake in the *argument.* Of course, I *want* PoE to have done well in terms of sales and sustainability, but the argument of whether it has or not isn't particularly important to me. I figure if it has, we'll know by what Obsidian *does.* However, from the point of view of folks saying 500k is a success or a failure in light of budgeting, how do people know?

We can't tell if Poe was a success, but we can compare it to the competition.

And we know that Wasteland 2 managed similar numbers despite lower KS budget, smaller names and worse reception.

Wasteland 2's kickstarter budget was not even the most significant source of money for the development of the game. It made more from early access sales. Those count as sales / owned copies / income, but not as profit.

 

Link. http://www.pcgamer.com/wasteland-2-early-access-sales-helped-double-the-games-kickstarter-budget/

Edited October 26, 2015 by anameforobsidian

[Tigranes]

The various KS RPG projects had very different funding models, and so their thresholds for profit will be different. W2 had quite a bit of Fargo money put into it; DOS was primarily funded by Larian and KS money acted as a sort of top-up, and then they put even more money into it than planned through Div2 package sales and Dragon Commander sales. So the meaning of the figures will differ for each. 

[Zoraptor]

 

 

 

Back in the day(couple months ago : P) I didn't understand why some devs were doing KS after KS after KS... and I thought they were taking advantage of people but when I thought about it, they really have nothing to gain by doing KS when they have the budget for the next game, it only increases their budget and a portion of the copies of the game being made sold cheaper via pledging, so nothing to gain except for larger budget for the game. 

There actually is a monetary reason to kickstart as well.

While there are cheap pledge options, but a lot of people dish out far larger pledges than they'd ever normally spend on a game (I know I did).  

The average pledge for PoE was about $54, that's a better deal than they're getting from current sales.

 

 

KS also has a lower cut than 'traditional' pre order systems. Pre order through GOG or Steam and they'll take 30% of the $40 price themselves so Obsidian or whoever is only getting 28$ of that money (minus Paradox's publisher cut too for non backer site PoE pre orders) while KS takes a far smaller proportion. That is somewhat balanced by needing more admin for KS and especially any physical rewards but still, it is ~45$ nett per kickstarter pledge which you can also earn interest/ use of money on vs $28 at most per normal pre order.

 

In many ways once you've got the stuff set up for handling a kickstarter you'd be foolish not to run them as basically a pre order system. That is, more or less, how InXile or Harebrained Schemes have been using KS.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Zoraptor

[Cantousent]

Frankly, I thought Wasteland 2 was a blast. I'm still in the middle of a run that I intend to finish eventually. I don't see any of these contests as either/or or even competitions with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. If the KS campaign garners enough money to continue with the games I like, the only question will be whether I have the time to play them all. Now, since I haven't played D:OS, I guess that's a valid point because I wouldn't want the market share to go to those devs instead of Obsidian or inxile, but if I hadn't heard of D:OS and they stole some of the market share it still wouldn't matter nearly as much as whether Obsidian or inxile get enough to keep going. Frankly, other than petty preference, it wouldn't matter at all if another company does well. That doesn't mean folks shouldn't argue and debate these things. Have at it!

 

...And, I never heard of hairbrained schemes until I tried Shadowrun returns. I thought it was a great game. I'm glad that their kickstarter did well. For that reason, even though I haven't played it and I don't intend to go out to look for it, I'm glad that D:OS did well. After all, I might want to take a gander some day and, with online purchase platforms, I no longer have to worry that it'll be gone even from the bargain bin.

[Zoraptor]

PoE has sold over 600,000 copies now, as of the latest press release. Steam Spy still has it at ~550k so it seems likely that at least some GOG/ Origin sales must be included in that figure.

[gogocactus]

PoE has sold over 600,000 copies now, as of the latest press release. Steam Spy still has it at ~550k so it seems likely that at least some GOG/ Origin sales must be included in that figure.

I'm incredibly happy to read this. Congratulations to Obsidian for the critical and commercial success of their game. May the good news contribute to any plans for a sequel

[AndreaColombo]

It has sold pretty well on GoG; I suppose the Steam Spy figures are inflated if the game is just slightly over 600,000 units, as I expect GoG copies to be over 100,000.

Edited November 17, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Leferd]

It has sold pretty well on GoG; I suppose the Steam Spy figures are inflated if the game is just slightly over 600,000 units, as I expect GoG copies to be over 100,000.

 

Just curious, but what do you base the 100,000 on?

[AndreaColombo]

If you check the list of RPGs on GoG and sort them by best selling, PoE Hero Edition is at the bottom of the first page.

 

There was a time, before D:OS EE was out (the EE reset the sales on GoG so it basically had to start again from the bottom of the list), in which PoE Hero was ahead of D:OS on the list (both were at the top of the second page.) At the time, D:OS had reportedly sold over 1,000,000 and its Steam Spy figure was just slightly over 850,000, suggesting sales in excess of 100,000 on GoG. PoE was ahead of that.

 

Besides I doubt any RPG can make it to page 1 of GoG's best sellers without selling in excess of 100,000 copies.

[Fenixp]

AndreaColombo: I wouldn't put much trust into bestselling list on GOG, it takes some ... Weird considerations into account.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Besides I doubt any RPG can make it to page 1 of GoG's best sellers without selling in excess of 100,000 copies.

Games on GOG don't sell all that much. Rule of thumb I heard and read around the net from several devs is 5-15% of Steam sales depending on the genre. There are exceptions like The Witcher 3, but that game very much had special circumstances surrounding it.

[Zoraptor]

Games on GOG don't sell all that much. Rule of thumb I heard and read around the net from several devs is 5-15% of Steam sales depending on the genre. There are exceptions like The Witcher 3, but that game very much had special circumstances surrounding it.

 

I'm not sure "rule of thumb I heard and read about" is the most convincing counter argument in the world. If DivOS sold 1 million plus and Steamspy had them at ~850k then either Steamspy is majorly inaccurate or there are ~150k extra copies sold somewhere. And for DivOS even Larian Vault copies were steam keys.

 

There are 12 RPGs that are ranked above TWitcher3 on GOG, and most of those were pretty definitively PoE type games. Indeed, many were named directly as being its inspiration.

 

AndreaColombo: I wouldn't put much trust into bestselling list on GOG, it takes some ... Weird considerations into account.

Haven't seen anything showing GOG sales rankings to be inaccurate, personally, they're just useless in general because they're relative sales rather than absolute ones.

[WorstUsernameEver]

It wasn't a counterargument because Andrea didn't make much of an argument in the first place, just an assumption, one that I contrasted with what little data I have. I agree that it's not conclusive and that you shouldn't take what I say at face value.

 

I'm not sure where you got the 1m+ copies number on D:OS, though. I skimmed through the press releases and saw no announcement about breaking that barrier. It's a pretty important PR milestone, and it seems unlikely that they'd just forget to brag about it.

 

I'm also not sure what you mean by "12 RPGs that are ranked above" The Witcher 3. Clearly you aren't talking about the "Popular Releases" tab on GOG, because The Witcher 3 has been on the top for a while.

[AndreaColombo]

I'm also not sure what you mean by "12 RPGs that are ranked above" The Witcher 3. Clearly you aren't talking about the "Popular Releases" tab on GOG, because The Witcher 3 has been on the top for a while.

 

If you check GoG's list of RPGs and sort by best selling, there are 12 games ahead of The Witcher 3.

 

Not sure where I got the 1mm copies sold information about D:OS. I wrote by memory but I too cannot find any sources. It passed the 500,000 mark in September 2014 according to Wikipedia so it's not unlikely that it made it to 1,000,000 one year thereafter but at this point it is just speculation.

Edited November 17, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Zoraptor]

Published by Focus Home Interactive, the Enhanced Edition is described as a "full makeover" of the original game--which has sold nearly 1 million copies--featuring a "truckload" of changes, creative director Swen Vincke tells GameSpot.

 

 

Sauce.

 

Yes, it says 'nearly' but it is also from May. IIRC it was also Swen saying it was 1 million+ in August some time, but was in a form that was (unfortunately) not Google friendly.

 

 

I skimmed through the press releases and saw no announcement about breaking that barrier. It's a pretty important PR milestone, and it seems unlikely that they'd just forget to brag about it.

 

Press releases are inconsistent though. Most of the time we don't get any sales figures at all. And really, the reason we've got figures for PoE at 500 and 600k is PR/ hype for the expansions, if they weren't happening they'd almost certainly have given us nothing, much as they did for every prior 100k increment.

[Zenbane]

 

Published by Focus Home Interactive, the Enhanced Edition is described as a "full makeover" of the original game--which has sold nearly 1 million copies--featuring a "truckload" of changes, creative director Swen Vincke tells GameSpot.

 

 

Sauce.

 

Yes, it says 'nearly' but it is also from May. IIRC it was also Swen saying it was 1 million+ in August some time, but was in a form that was (unfortunately) not Google friendly.

 

 

 

I wonder if the Divinity forums respond similar to some of the folks around here. As in... people complaining that they should "wait to play" until that full make-over and game overhaul; or maybe people complaining that the new interface and Console target audience removes complexity and makes it too easy/boring, etc. Hmm?

[Zoraptor]

I'd be surprised if people didn't complain about DivOSEE and consoles/ consolisation, that's the PC Master Race for you. Couldn't care less personally though.

 

People waiting for WMpt2 to be released before buying or a 'final' patch or whatever is just the nature of things as are complaints about dumbing down or making things too easy (or too hard, in some cases).

[Hansss]

I just have to revive this thread..

 

I have a friend who works at Paradox here in sweden.

 

They are very happy with the sales and if you call them they will happily tell that they are extremely pleased with the sales..Its not a secret and they will problably publish a sequel when that is due.

 

The game has sold 500 000 on STEAM only including backers. And it has since passed that and continued to sell..Last month almost 70k on steam

 

And he told me that its 25 percent GOG 70 percent Steam the rest i assume Origin but that i dont know..

 

So according to my calculations its now 550K STEAM 130 GOG 25 000 ORIGIN

 

700 K and that for one format is very very good..

 

He told me Avalance is happy with Mad Max PC sales and that equates to 400k 

 

The reason why they went out with 500k is because they pass milestones in different formats and wanted to be conservative in their estimate they dont have a ticker that counts game sales its all from their balance sheets..

 

Tou have nothing to worry about about a sequel 

 

POE is a succes saleswise..and so is Divinity. O .S