Republican Presidential Debate

[Guard Dog]

Ok Rostere being factually incorrect about something is not necessarily an indictment of someone's intelligence. Carson grew up in poverty, excelled in school, earned admission to and graduated from Yale & University of Michigan and went on to became a world famous neurosurgeon. Yes, I would call someone who was able to do that intelligent. It doesn't mean he knows everything or that everything he thinks he knows is factually correct.

 

Heck I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent, a have a BS in Electronics Engineering and I can (and have) design a wireless network from the ground up. But the first two years I lived here in Tennessee I thought the state capital was in Knoxville. It's not. It didn't make me stupid it just meant I was wrong about something.

[ShadySands]

Carson was a great neurosurgeon but I'm not sure that I would trust him with anything else important. Excellence in one area doesn't exactly translate to other areas but my issue with him is not is beliefs or literal belief in the bible because I'm used to people with crazy ideas running for office but rather his seemingly fabricated past. I'm used to people "lying up" about their pasts (which I guess he did about West Point) but he appears to be imagining a violent and angry youth which seems to come as a surprise to everyone who knew him back then. That's just odd

 

Plus I can't stand to hear him speak for more than 2 seconds but that's neither here nor there

Edited November 14, 2015 by ShadySands

[Wrath of Dagon]

The West Point might be mostly true since people say recruiters do offer scholarships and tell them they'll be admitted for certain if they are accomplished enough, which Carson certainly was. Also in the book where he made the claim he said he only applied to Yale, so he never claimed he was actually admitted to West Point. As far as the stabbing story, his mother confirmed it in 1997, and if that's true the rest of it might be true. As for nutty believes, he also believes earth is 6000 years old, and of course the evergreen a rape victim should be forced to carry the rapist's child for 9 months.

[Hurlshort]

 As for nutty believes, he also believes earth is 6000 years old, and of course the evergreen a rape victim should be forced to carry the rapist's child for 9 months.

 

 

Really? 

 

I thought the 6000 year old earthers were just a bedtime story Atheists tell their children at night. 

[Guard Dog]

I just find it amusing how every detail of this man's life and every word he ever uttered is under such a microscope yet all of Hillary's whoppers are just accepted with a smile. Like how she tried to join the Marines, how she was named after Edmund Hillary after he climbed Everest (wonder what her parents called from ages 0-6 then), or how Chelsea was jogging at the world trade center when the first plane hit, how she was under fire from snipers during her trip to Bosnia, how they were dead broke when Bill left office (I guess $12M in book advances don't count), Benghazi was caused by a video, Vince Foster committed suicide, etc. But hey, she's got a D after her name so pay no attention to all this... but look over here at this Carson guy. He's encouraged to apply to West Point and then 40 years later makes a quip about having a full scholarship (well no one actually pays for West Point with money, they pay with time) or he has a religious affiliation, or believes things that may not be historically accurate, or believes Adam and Eve were actual people. Well, we can't have HIM in the White House. And while yes he is black he isn't really because he has a R after his name so it's ok to hate him.

 

All this is crap is just political tribalism. Those on the left hate Carson because he's not on the left. Why not just admit that? There is actually nothing wrong with that.  I don't like Barack Obama for no reason other than that. He's probably a nice man. I don't care about his religious affiliations, I don't care what his opinions on God or the origin of our species is. I only ever cared about what he would do with political power once he had it. I have heard a lot of people say he's a Muslim. So what if he were? That alone would not be relevant to his job as President. He can't make anyone else Muslim so what do you care?

 

If an atheist were to run I would still vote for them if I wanted someone of their political leanings and ability. They can't outlaw religion or force anyone to be atheist so why is that a problem? If Ben Carson becomes President he can't force you to believe the earth is 6000 years old or that the Garden of Eden would have been visible on Google Earth. So why do you care what he believes? Him believing that will not change the outcome of a single decision he will have the power to make other than what church he attends on Sunday if any.

 

The point I'm trying to make here is it is not necessary to dissect someone's entire life to find reason to justify why you don't like them or won't support them. If you want a big government and Carson wants a small one, well that is enough reason right there. He's against abortion and you're for it. There you go, that is a good reason not to support someone if that is an important issue to you. This obsessive dissection of every utterance in an attempt to discredit the man only sets the left up as hypocrites when they gloss over the lies their own people tell. 

 

I want a small government, I don't want gun control, I want lower taxes, I want a closer adherence to the US Constitution. All that means I'm not supporting anyone with a D after their name. I don't care what God they pray to or who they say caused Benghazi. I don't care if Hillary dressed up in a Supergirl suit and saved a mother dog and her puppies from the 10th floor of a burning building. I'm still not voting for her.

 

Just my $.02.

[Guard Dog]

Carson was a great neurosurgeon but I'm not sure that I would trust him with anything else important. Excellence in one area doesn't exactly translate to other areas but my issue with him is not is beliefs or literal belief in the bible because I'm used to people with crazy ideas running for office but rather his seemingly fabricated past. I'm used to people "lying up" about their pasts (which I guess he did about West Point) but he appears to be imagining a violent and angry youth which seems to come as a surprise to everyone who knew him back then. That's just odd

 

Plus I can't stand to hear him speak for more than 2 seconds but that's neither here nor there

You are correct. Being a doctor, no matter how able, does not qualify someone to be President. Surgeon General maybe. That's why I'm not voting for him. If the candidate make Carson his running mate that's all fine and good.

[Hurlshort]

It's really weird how many hardcore Republicans we have here.  Do we even have anyone that is registered as a Democrat?  I would guess maybe Calax, but he's not that active.

 

 

 

I would definitely vote for a guy that can keep track of a brain surgery rather than a woman who couldn't keep track of her husband d***.

 

 

Putting aside the ridiculous comparison, saying stuff like this lessens you in every way.  Be a better person.

[Namutree]

It's really weird how many hardcore Republicans we have here.  Do we even have anyone that is registered as a Democrat?  I would guess maybe Calax, but he's not that active.

 

 

 

I would definitely vote for a guy that can keep track of a brain surgery rather than a woman who couldn't keep track of her husband d***.

 

 

Putting aside the ridiculous comparison, saying stuff like this lessens you in every way.  Be a better person.

Hardcore republicans? Like who?

[Leferd]

It's really weird how many hardcore Republicans we have here.  Do we even have anyone that is registered as a Democrat?  I would guess maybe Calax, but he's not that active.

 

 

*Raises hand*

 

But I'm following because I care about the state of legalized online gambling. How come no one is talking about the issues I care about? We already know Hillary hates gamers.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I would definitely vote for a guy that can keep track of a brain surgery rather than a woman who couldn't keep track of her husband d***.

 

As for the 6.000 year old Earth it's a blatant lie, he never claimed that. He only clims to believe that God made all things on Earth in 6 days.

 

On the other hand Hilary claimed than the Embassy in Libya felt comfortable dying despite 600 times they asked for more security.

 

I don't know about US, but I would go with the 6 days guy every time.

You're right, I can't find where he actually said this. Apparently those claims come from a faculty letter that was written about him when he was giving a commencement speech and also supposedly that's what Seventh Day Adventists believe. He now says he doesn't know how old the earth is, so it could be 6000 years old! He believes earth was created in six days, and doesn't believe in evolution, in fact he said it was satanically inspired.

 

I think a candidate's ahistorical and unscientific believes, willing to ignore overwhelming evidence to the contrary, is relevant to what kind of president he would be. Having said that, I'd still vote for him over evil Hilzilla.

 

Edit:

It's really weird how many hardcore Republicans we have here. Do we even have anyone that is registered as a Democrat? I would guess maybe Calax, but he's not that active.

I once got my registration card stamped "Democrat" because I voted in Democrat primary for Hilzilla trying to stop Obola. Edited November 14, 2015 by Wrath of Dagon

[ManifestedISO]

 

It's really weird how many hardcore Republicans we have here.  Do we even have anyone that is registered as a Democrat?  I would guess maybe Calax, but he's not that active.

 

 

*Raises hand*

 

*surreptitiously raises hand*

[Hurlshort]

Well now they are all coming out of the woodwork.  

[Guard Dog]

Well as you all know I am neither. I am a card carrying dues playing member of the Libertarian Party of Tennessee (and Florida). I dislike Republicans but I end up voting for them because the Democrats slide towards favoring authoritarian government and the general curtailment of free speech and individual liberty just scares the hell out of me. Not that the Repubs are a whole lot better but voting these days has become and exercise in selecting the lesser of two evils I am sorry to say.

[Elerond]

Well as you all know I am neither. I am a card carrying dues playing member of the Libertarian Party of Tennessee (and Florida). I dislike Republicans but I end up voting for them because the Democrats slide towards favoring authoritarian government and the general curtailment of free speech and individual liberty just scares the hell out of me. Not that the Repubs are a whole lot better but voting these days has become and exercise in selecting the lesser of two evils I am sorry to say.

 

Which seems to be quite common thinking process among the voters as most of the talk I hear is why somebody should not be elected to be the president and much less reasons why one should be elected. It is quite strange way to approach such elections, but maybe it is realistic point of view, as it follows thinking "everybody is awful with such much power so we need to find one that is able to do least damage" (which is quite conservative world view, but not necessary unexpected if most of the people are happy with their lives as it is now).

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I just find it amusing how every detail of this man's life and every word he ever uttered is under such a microscope yet all of Hillary's whoppers are just accepted with a smile. Like how she tried to join the Marines, how she was named after Edmund Hillary after he climbed Everest (wonder what her parents called from ages 0-6 then), or how Chelsea was jogging at the world trade center when the first plane hit, how she was under fire from snipers during her trip to Bosnia, how they were dead broke when Bill left office (I guess $12M in book advances don't count), Benghazi was caused by a video, Vince Foster committed suicide, etc. But hey, she's got a D after her name so pay no attention to all this... but look over here at this Carson guy. He's encouraged to apply to West Point and then 40 years later makes a quip about having a full scholarship (well no one actually pays for West Point with money, they pay with time) or he has a religious affiliation, or believes things that may not be historically accurate, or believes Adam and Eve were actual people. Well, we can't have HIM in the White House. And while yes he is black he isn't really because he has a R after his name so it's ok to hate him.

They're doing the same thing to Sanders believe it or not. It should be pretty clear at this point that the establishment hates "outsiders", even if said "outsiders" are long-serving legislators or high-profile real estate barons, and viciously attack them.

[Leferd]

Updated lines from PaddyPower for the Republican nomination:

 

Rubio - 5/4

Trump - 7/2

Bush - 7/1

Carson - 7/1

Cruz - 8/1

Christie - 16/1

Kasich - 20/1

Fiorina - 33/1

 

Rubio is the clear heavy favorite and I wouldn't put money down on anyone else.

 

...well maybe Cruz at 8 to 1 as a value bet.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't see how the Republican base ever votes for Rubio. Were the odds in favor of Bush at some point?

[Rostere]

Ok Rostere being factually incorrect about something is not necessarily an indictment of someone's intelligence. Carson grew up in poverty, excelled in school, earned admission to and graduated from Yale & University of Michigan and went on to became a world famous neurosurgeon. Yes, I would call someone who was able to do that intelligent. It doesn't mean he knows everything or that everything he thinks he knows is factually correct.

 

Heck I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent, a have a BS in Electronics Engineering and I can (and have) design a wireless network from the ground up. But the first two years I lived here in Tennessee I thought the state capital was in Knoxville. It's not. It didn't make me stupid it just meant I was wrong about something.

 

Not knowing the capital of a US state is a completely different kind of misunderstanding.

 

A factual error which is on par with believing that the pyramids stored grain would be for example "The F-35 was built to be used as a submarine". Now, if a non-military person said this, and retracted their statement upon seeing videos of the F-35, there wouldn't be much to discuss. But if this person was given information about the F-35 and still maintained that it was a submarine, they probably have some kind of mental issues.

 

The thing is that this Carson guy has been confronted with this statement, and did not retract it. That puts him very squarely in the category of the clinically insane. It is painfully clear from even the shortest Google search that a pyramid would be a laughably suboptimal granary. And that is without the overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence that they were used as tombs. This level of rejection of reality is unexplainable with anything else than a psychological condition.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yet he was the first person in the world to separate twins conjoined at the brain. Go figure.

[Hurlshort]

Yet he was the first person in the world to separate twins conjoined at the brain. Go figure.

 

Hey, he'll be my first vote if I ever need brain surgery.

 

Actually I'd assume that is a younger man's game, so he would have been back in the day.  

[Rostere]

 

Not knowing the capital of a US state is a completely different kind of misunderstanding.

 

A factual error which is on par with believing that the pyramids stored grain would be for example "The F-35 was built to be used as a submarine". Now, if a non-military person said this, and retracted their statement upon seeing videos of the F-35, there wouldn't be much to discuss. But if this person was given information about the F-35 and still maintained that it was a submarine, they probably have some kind of mental issues.

 

The thing is that this Carson guy has been confronted with this statement, and did not retract it. That puts him very squarely in the category of the clinically insane. It is painfully clear from even the shortest Google search that a pyramid would be a laughably suboptimal granary. And that is without the overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence that they were used as tombs. This level of rejection of reality is unexplainable with anything else than a psychological condition.

 

But you do understand that when Carson asked about the purpose of big empty chambers in pyramids he got "we are not sure" answer? You call that a statement that should change his theory?

 

You do understand that we don't have full understanding of building technique and full purpose of pyramids. We have purpose for one part of pyramids - storing dead pharaons, but what about the rest of the building?

 

Your F-35 example is not applicable because F-35 could never be used as a submarine, but pyramids ARE capable by it's design and properties to be used as a storage for keeping food fresh?

 

So the scientists have a theory and Carson have a theory. The problem is when you don't agree with scientists theory some dumb, unintelligent people will call you "clinically insane", even though you theory have the same probability of being true.

 

It's like Islam and Pastafarians. They both have stupid story about a their god, but people tend to laugh at Pastafarians but not Muslims.

 

So I would give Carson a pass with his theory about pyramids granary.

 

Sorry, but usage of the pyramids as a granary is about as practical as usage of the F-35 as a submarine. You can store grain in a pyramid just as you can sit in a F-35 underwater but both of them are extremely impractical.

 

I mean, a pyramid is a veritable mountain out of rock. The are narrow passageways inside it, and burial chambers which are tiny compared to the size of the pyramid. There are no "big empty chambers", that's a complete delusion right there. As far as we know, all of the chambers are either meant as traps, or were burial chambers. This leaves nothing to account for. Or are you saying that somebody built these massive pyramids with their tiny chambers for grain storage, only for later pharaons to use it as a tomb instead? Why the heck would someone build a pyramid to store grain when they could have just built a small house to store the same volume?

 

Anyways, this discussion is getting more retarded by the minute. You might as well give me a pass on my theory about the F-35 being a submarine, since this has not been disproven thus far.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Not knowing the capital of a US state is a completely different kind of misunderstanding.

 

A factual error which is on par with believing that the pyramids stored grain would be for example "The F-35 was built to be used as a submarine". Now, if a non-military person said this, and retracted their statement upon seeing videos of the F-35, there wouldn't be much to discuss. But if this person was given information about the F-35 and still maintained that it was a submarine, they probably have some kind of mental issues.

 

The thing is that this Carson guy has been confronted with this statement, and did not retract it. That puts him very squarely in the category of the clinically insane. It is painfully clear from even the shortest Google search that a pyramid would be a laughably suboptimal granary. And that is without the overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence that they were used as tombs. This level of rejection of reality is unexplainable with anything else than a psychological condition.

 

But you do understand that when Carson asked about the purpose of big empty chambers in pyramids he got "we are not sure" answer? You call that a statement that should change his theory?

 

You do understand that we don't have full understanding of building technique and full purpose of pyramids. We have purpose for one part of pyramids - storing dead pharaons, but what about the rest of the building?

 

Your F-35 example is not applicable because F-35 could never be used as a submarine, but pyramids ARE capable by it's design and properties to be used as a storage for keeping food fresh?

 

So the scientists have a theory and Carson have a theory. The problem is when you don't agree with scientists theory some dumb, unintelligent people will call you "clinically insane", even though you theory have the same probability of being true.

 

It's like Islam and Pastafarians. They both have stupid story about a their god, but people tend to laugh at Pastafarians but not Muslims.

 

So I would give Carson a pass with his theory about pyramids granary.

 

Sorry, but usage of the pyramids as a granary is about as practical as usage of the F-35 as a submarine. You can store grain in a pyramid just as you can sit in a F-35 underwater but both of them are extremely impractical.

 

I mean, a pyramid is a veritable mountain out of rock. The are narrow passageways inside it, and burial chambers which are tiny compared to the size of the pyramid. There are no "big empty chambers", that's a complete delusion right there. As far as we know, all of the chambers are either meant as traps, or were burial chambers. This leaves nothing to account for. Or are you saying that somebody built these massive pyramids with their tiny chambers for grain storage, only for later pharaons to use it as a tomb instead? Why the heck would someone build a pyramid to store grain when they could have just built a small house to store the same volume?

 

Anyways, this discussion is getting more retarded by the minute. You might as well give me a pass on my theory about the F-35 being a submarine, since this has not been disproven thus far.

 

Guys I share Ros concern about Carson....from an outsiders perspective he has made some strange intellectual comments

 

But like Trump I doubt he will get to the end, Republican supporters need to realize that anyone who becomes the candidate will be facing a very confident and popular Democrat candidate in Hilary Clinton

 

I see the Republican candidates constantly dismiss her as " irrelevant " but unless I am missing something once again I see the Democrats as having the real advantage here in Clinton. It seems to me that despite the last two elections the Republicans like Trump and Carson haven't realized that you really shouldnt dismiss and alienate minority groups. This includes not just the African American and Latino vote but the vote of women..and its the female vote  that carries the most influence in the minority space  and I'm sorry guys the Republicans still need to do  more work to not appear to be condescending towards women and yes this is due to Trump and his comments about women

 

 

In fact I  will make a comment that I don't believe in the USA you will ever see another president from any political party if they dismiss minority groups. This next election will confirm this 

 

Finally I want to add something important, I know many of you guys who support the Republicans are white, males like me and maybe you are looking at the current outcomes of the last two elections and feel frustrated because you think " how is it possible where in a country where white people are the most dominant group that we can't win an election and it seems like the media, liberals  or SJ groups have somehow created a voting environment where people dont vote on real issues anymore and will vote for the Democrats because they get told the Democrats are more progressive and offer promises on so called economic equality but at the expense of people who actually work" 

 

Maybe you feel somehow marginalized as white males and your views aren't considered important anymore...maybe none of you feel this way but I want to say this anyway,

 

Voting for the Democrats is not in anyway an attack or a suggestion that white males are irrelevant or not a critical part of the USA...this will always be a fact. A vote for the Democrats is simply where you believe in a more equitable US society where the federal government has a right to intervene in the affairs of the states in some cases

 

But this will not be abused, for example some things have to be driven from the Federal government because of the reality where some states just take too long to make certain choices, like the Gay Marriage Bill 

[Hurlshort]

 

You do understand that we don't have full understanding of building technique and full purpose of pyramids. We have purpose for one part of pyramids - storing dead pharaons, but what about the rest of the building?

 

 

Dude, it is solid rock.  What purpose do you think it has?  

 

 

It is ok to not know things.  We can't be experts on everything.  A good leader needs to be able to defer to the experts on a wide range of issues, and Carson has shown zero ability to do that.

[Zoraptor]

I mean, a pyramid is a veritable mountain out of rock. The are narrow passageways inside it, and burial chambers which are tiny compared to the size of the pyramid.

 

Thinking pyramids were granaries is demonstrably wrong for two reasons- they indeed only have small empty spaces, and they can only have small empty places. As the 'bent' pyramid shows they didn't have much engineering wiggle room for the empty, massive chambers a granary would necessitate. The other bizarre assertion was that Joseph built them. I can only imagine how he'd respond if anyone suggested the (actually quite plausible) theory that Judaism and hence Christianity were descended from Egyptian Atenism, albeit around a thousand years after the pyramids were built.

 

The odd bizarre belief doesn't really mean you wouldn't be a good president, though sticking with a bizarre belief in the light of proof to the contrary might. And at least it's a harmless belief.

[BruceVC]

 

I mean, a pyramid is a veritable mountain out of rock. The are narrow passageways inside it, and burial chambers which are tiny compared to the size of the pyramid.

 

Thinking pyramids were granaries is demonstrably wrong for two reasons- they indeed only have small empty spaces, and they can only have small empty places. As the 'bent' pyramid shows they didn't have much engineering wiggle room for the empty, massive chambers a granary would necessitate. The other bizarre assertion was that Joseph built them. I can only imagine how he'd respond if anyone suggested the (actually quite plausible) theory that Judaism and hence Christianity were descended from Egyptian Atenism, albeit around a thousand years after the pyramids were built.

 

The odd bizarre belief doesn't really mean you wouldn't be a good president, though sticking with a bizarre belief in the light of proof to the contrary might. And at least it's a harmless belief.

 

Thanks for the concern Zora, I know how much you care about the political stability of the USA

 

But you musnt worry, Carson wont be the Republican candidate. I am hoping someone like Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush or Rand Paul

 

gets through because they are really articulate and highly intelligent and I can relate to that