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Republican Presidential Debate


BruceVC

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http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2015/09/15/gop-debate-eve-update-berman-dnt-tsr.cnn/video/playlists/2016-presidential-debates/

 

Yeah its happening tonight and it is relevant for a variety of reasons. For me I am interested in the opposition to the Democrats and what resonance they will carry when the real election campaigning begins. I want to know what the Republican candidates stand for 

 

I think Trump will dominate through his rhetoric and populism but I see Carson is gaining on him....not sure what you guys think about Carson. I don't know much about Carson except for the fact he seems very bright and is a neurosurgeon 

 

Anyway thread is really about the GOP candidates and how they come across during the debate :)

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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What I find interesting about Trump is  he keeps using his credentials as a successful Capitalist as a reason that people should vote for him

 

So he will something like " no building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants isn't hard, I have built massive 100 story buildings..now that's hard " 

 

Or  " defeating ISIS won't be an issue...I am have proven track record at winning many law suits " 

 

 

So its like he is assuming being a prominent businessman means you can be a successful politician or president ....and its not the same....its really not the same

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I don't see how winning lawsuits will help with ISIS...They don't exactly follow Amerikan laws...

Yeah that's my view around Trump and his foreign policy experience, remember he has never been a politician before. He really lacks an understanding of diplomacy and rather he seems in contempt of the concept of quiet diplomacy....and of course that concerns me immensely

 

The USA basically  had 8 years of that under Bush ...and I don't think it worked out that well overall 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside

 

 

Ahtisaari held talks with envoys from the five permanent members of the UN security council in February 2012. He said that during those discussions, the Russian ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, laid out a three-point plan, which included a proposal for Assad to cede power at some point after peace talks had started between the regime and the opposition.

 

The west ****ed themselves royally with this and Russia will not play ball anymore when it comes to Syria. I haven't seen the debate, but anyone willing to go mushroom-cloud-mother****er on ISIS (and delivers) have my support. They signed out their right to existence a long time ago.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside

 

 

Ahtisaari held talks with envoys from the five permanent members of the UN security council in February 2012. He said that during those discussions, the Russian ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, laid out a three-point plan, which included a proposal for Assad to cede power at some point after peace talks had started between the regime and the opposition.

 

The west ****ed themselves royally with this and Russia will not play ball anymore when it comes to Syria. I haven't seen the debate, but anyone willing to go mushroom-cloud-mother****er on ISIS (and delivers) have my support. They signed out their right to existence a long time ago.

 

Nah, I don't buy the point  that the " reasonable  Russians really tried to ensure peace in Syria and were ignored by the intransigent West " 

 

Lets go back to the beginning of the Syrian conflict ..the Russians and Chinese vetoed military action. As I have said numerous times this lack of military action has lead to the Syrian civil war being protracted for years. Thats on Russia and China

 

Also you do realize the Russians have become much more active in Syria militarily in the last month or two. So they are sending military resources to help Assad against ISIS

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/09/14/analysis-russia-takes-gamble-in-syria-ramping-up-military-involvement-in-civil/

 

They have also asked the West to assist them in a military coalition basically aiding Assad as he is the " lesser of two evils" compared to ISIS

 

The Russians don't want to commit to Syria by themselves as they have serious economic pressures on them but I can't see the West suddenly helping Assad....even though he is the lesser of the two evils

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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What I find interesting about Trump is  he keeps using his credentials as a successful Capitalist as a reason that people should vote for him

 

So he will something like " no building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants isn't hard, I have built massive 100 story buildings..now that's hard " 

 

Or  " defeating ISIS won't be an issue...I am have proven track record at winning many law suits " 

 

 

So its like he is assuming being a prominent businessman means you can be a successful politician or president ....and its not the same....its really not the same

 

Ronald Reagan was an actor and a great president, just a side note.

 

Well being politician nowadays doesn't guarantee you can be a successful politician or president. Some would even say that it will guarantee a failure.

 

Sadly we don't have politicians anymore, mostly we have popularity polls wh***s and flags in the wind.

 

So if people cannot count on politicians they turn to other people. Successful people with strong leadership capabilities, strong beliefs that tell people the truth straight instead of politically correct gibberish that doesn't mean anything. And Trump have it all. 

 

Trump says more in one minute debate time than any given politician in two hour speech.

 

People are more likely to believe a construction businessman to build a wall than a politician who says he can help.

 

You raise some interesting points but you are overlooking something very fundamental,...you can count on some politicians. You can count on the Democrats...you can count on Hilary Clinton   :dancing:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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What I find interesting about Trump is  he keeps using his credentials as a successful Capitalist as a reason that people should vote for him

 

So he will something like " no building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants isn't hard, I have built massive 100 story buildings..now that's hard " 

 

Or  " defeating ISIS won't be an issue...I am have proven track record at winning many law suits " 

 

 

So its like he is assuming being a prominent businessman means you can be a successful politician or president ....and its not the same....its really not the same

 

RE: ISIS, I imagine that Trump believes he can go after the assets of ISIS and its supporters as a way to stranglehold their ability to operate, and that would either be through lawsuits (if US operating organizations) or international courts, I'd think.

 

Not that it means he'd be effective, just I imagine that is what he's trying to get at.

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Trump solidified my view of him as the final form of Rob Ford.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I was impressed by several people on things they said even though I don't necessarily agree with everything they say ...like Rand Paul and he was unequivocal that the USA needs to stay out of the ME completely as far as " boots on the ground " is concerned. Airstrikes and aiding real Western allies...like the Kurds is fine 

 

Rubio seems to have a good grasp of global events 

 

And you could see the tension, which was humorous, between Trump and Carly Fiorina. 

 

But damn many of these Republicans want to make the USA military much greater...as in much much more investment. Isn't the US military already by far the most effective and well resourced military in the world. And they think the current military is ineffectual 

 

They talk about having 50 Marine Brigades !!!! 50 ...I believe there are 9-12 at the moment ?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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They talk about having 50 Marine Brigades !!!! 50 ...I believe there are 9-12 at the moment ?

In the US Marines "Brigade" is a fluid term. Usually a brigade is a combination of different units from different groups to do a specific thing. The force breakdown of the Marines is 3 Infantry/Armor Divisions of 6 regiments active with 1 reserve. 3 Force Service Support Groups with 1 reserve, 3 Marine Air Wings with 1 reserve. I think the total muster of the Corps is around 200K.

Edited by Guard Dog
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"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

The Director FO4

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They talk about having 50 Marine Brigades !!!! 50 ...I believe there are 9-12 at the moment ?

In the US Marines "Brigade" is a fluid term. Usually a brigade is a combination of different units from different groups to do a specific thing. The force breakdown of the Marines is 3 Infantry/Armor Regiments active with 1 reserve. 3 Force Service Support Groups with 1 reserve, 3 Marine Air Wings with 1 reserve. I think the total muster of the Corps is around 200K.

 

 

But GD don't you think what Carly Fiorina is suggesting..50 Marine Brigades is preposterous ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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They talk about having 50 Marine Brigades !!!! 50 ...I believe there are 9-12 at the moment ?

In the US Marines "Brigade" is a fluid term. Usually a brigade is a combination of different units from different groups to do a specific thing. The force breakdown of the Marines is 3 Infantry/Armor Regiments active with 1 reserve. 3 Force Service Support Groups with 1 reserve, 3 Marine Air Wings with 1 reserve. I think the total muster of the Corps is around 200K.

 

 

But GD don't you think what Carly Fiorina is suggesting..50 Marine Brigades is preposterous ?

 

 

Maybe she just want to make marines become top heavy branch and not actually add more soldiers  :p

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They talk about having 50 Marine Brigades !!!! 50 ...I believe there are 9-12 at the moment ?

In the US Marines "Brigade" is a fluid term. Usually a brigade is a combination of different units from different groups to do a specific thing. The force breakdown of the Marines is 3 Infantry/Armor Regiments active with 1 reserve. 3 Force Service Support Groups with 1 reserve, 3 Marine Air Wings with 1 reserve. I think the total muster of the Corps is around 200K.

 

 

But GD don't you think what Carly Fiorina is suggesting..50 Marine Brigades is preposterous ?

 

Yes but only because she is using the wrong words/doesn't know what she is talking about. As for what she actually said, I couldn't tell you. I didn't watch. The Rays/Yankees game was on and I am far more interested in who wins that than a staged debate between a herd of empty suits most of whom I would not even p--s on if they were on fire. In the end who wins the Republican nomination is a fact of little worth to me. I am a registered Libertarian so I don't get a vote and I am voting against the Democrat anyway so I'd take any one of those empty suits over the democrat candidate whomever that ends up being. 

 

That's my $.02

"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

The Director FO4

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Correction, the Corps has 3 Divisions and 1 reserve. Not regiments. Each Division has 6 regiments, each regiment has 4 battalions, each battalion has five companies. Each company has four platoons. Each platoon has three squads, each squad has three fire teams each fire team has four Marines. A fire team leader, a SAW gunner, and two riflemen. 

"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

The Director FO4

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So...to recap for the Corps:

 

3 Divisions

18 Regiments

72 Batallions

360 Companies

1440 Platoons

4320 Squads

17280 Marines

(plus whatever the reserve adds)

 

So...not much illumination as to what she meant when she said "brigade". :p

Edited by Bartimaeus
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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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Chris Christie was pretty good.  Although he is clearly a more moderate, which means he has a great chance of winning the general election but no chance in hell of winning the primary.  Huh.

How did the last two moderates do? Besides, even if he won; he'd be a terrible president. America needs real change; not the same old same old. 

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Chris Christie was pretty good.  Although he is clearly a more moderate, which means he has a great chance of winning the general election but no chance in hell of winning the primary.  Huh.

 

How did the last two moderates do? Besides, even if he won; he'd be a terrible president. America needs real change; not the same old same old.

Vote Bernie, only he is willing to stand against the TPP and the FREEDOM ACT(PATRIOT ACT 2 for those unaware).

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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So...to recap for Corps:

 

3 Divisions

18 Regiments

72 Batallions

360 Companies

1440 Platoons

4320 Squads

17280 Marines

(plus whatever the reserve adds)

 

So...not much illumination as to what she meant when she said "brigade". :p

That is just the infantry and the armor. There are also 4 FSSGs and 4 Airwings. The total headcount is in the neighborhood of 200k. But the Marine Corps really is all about the infantry. Everything else is just support. I was in the airwing and we heard that all the time.

"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

The Director FO4

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Chris Christie was pretty good.  Although he is clearly a more moderate, which means he has a great chance of winning the general election but no chance in hell of winning the primary.  Huh.

How did the last two moderates do? Besides, even if he won; he'd be a terrible president. America needs real change; not the same old same old.

Vote Bernie, only he is willing to stand against the TPP and the FREEDOM ACT(PATRIOT ACT 2 for those unaware).

 

And Rand Paul. He is opposed to both as well.

"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

The Director FO4

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Chris Christie was pretty good.  Although he is clearly a more moderate, which means he has a great chance of winning the general election but no chance in hell of winning the primary.  Huh.

 

How did the last two moderates do? Besides, even if he won; he'd be a terrible president. America needs real change; not the same old same old.

Vote Bernie, only he is willing to stand against the TPP and the FREEDOM ACT(PATRIOT ACT 2 for those unaware).

And Rand Paul. He is opposed to both as well.

If Paul is against Hillary he'll have my vote then, but I don't think he's got the fervor support his father had to pull off winning the primary.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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His father didn't even have the support to pull off winning the primary! :p

Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

Quote

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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Chris Christie was pretty good.  Although he is clearly a more moderate, which means he has a great chance of winning the general election but no chance in hell of winning the primary.  Huh.

How did the last two moderates do?

 

They met expectations-- they lost to a better-funded, better-advised, and more talented campaigner, on an electoral map that was not favorable to them.  Replace them with the less moderate candidates who challenged them in the primary, and all you do is add 5 points to Obama's margin of victory. 

Edited by Enoch
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